Yeah it’s not my fault. I don’t need to come on here to be inspiring. I have a state of mind based purely on emails received by BA for 18 months.

I spare a thought for all of us, we shouldn’t have to through all of that process to not be called. From reading the most recent email, there are going to be some in the pool who won’t get a call. I’ve said a number of times of course I’m aware things can easily change, but doesn’t anyone else get that impression at the moment?

Again I can give my opinion, you don’t have to take any notice, but my opinion is what it is. I didn’t have much hope when they first emailed us saying no jobs expected in 2018 so I went and got myself ONE other option and am in the process of taking it as I still don’t think BA will call me. There are better jobs out there than where I am currently and I have hedged my bets in looking after my family long term.

I’ve only ever made comments on what I think- this is what a forum is for.

..

Welcome (possibly) to BA and the “BA way” ....the emphasised bit is why I tried to stop offering anything approximating advice a few months back.......

Wonder what the latest “anything can happen” will be”...just seen the latest LHR TAF and the usual missive that arrived at about the same time about “ minding how you go” on the way to work...but make sure you get here....but make sure you don’t bust 90 minutes.......;)

Seriously, hope it all works out for the swimmers...now where did I put the uniform pullover :confused: oh hang on, we have a heavy...:E

Belated edit to add. With regard to some of the glowing endorsements about rostering - having had to time to spare this evening I have been browsing elsewhere and noticed there is suddenly a lot of heated traffic on company yammer about how bad roster stability actually is for the v junior on some fleets...I think the gripe is whilst Blindlines and Triplines are solid there are new joiners experiencing a high frequency of reserve lines vs. what was promised by the recruiting team (specifically recruiting team saying about one a year, people actually working four in a year), high incidence of TASS, etc, and other complaints.. .any of the newish joiners here care to comment?

Wiggy, any idea what the latest chatter is for those of us non-type rated, and currently enjoying time on aircraft more "exotic" than the usual line up or Airbus and Boeing?

Likely connected to the increasing numbers of pilots who are no longer able to be assigned Reserve!

Combined with the ludicrous Reserve Banding system!

"No longer able to be assigned reserve". Would you mind explaining that please? Reserve is currently one of the least attractive prospects for me as a long haul hold pool swimmer. I would go almost as far as to say it could make the difference between me accepting an offer or not. That being said, not being in the company I probably don't fully understand the system. Some of my junior friends seem to do a lot of reserve and I don't fancy 4 21 day periods a year for the next 10 years where I have so little advance notice of what I am working.

Certainly on LH, under current rules, Right to Request part timers can never do Reserve, even if they want to! Under current rules Aspirational part time workers will hardly ever do Reserve either. Both the of these situations are due to the fact that you need a 28 day ‘window’ of availability on your line of work to fit a Reserve block in. RTR never have such a window. With leave and DFW, Aspirational bidders hardly ever have ‘availability’ either.

Combined with the unjustifiable system of Reserve Banding. On LH in particular, with the increasing uptake of PTWK, it can’t be long before we see every junior full time worker doing Reserve pretty much whenever they have a 28 day window? (Though I’ve a vague recollection you can’t be assigned Reserve in consecutive months??)

On HSB, you have to reach the crew car park in 2 hours, so if you live close to Heathrow, it might suit you? If you’re planning to commute, it certainly won’t. You will also lose control of any earned allowances. You may be busy. You may not work at all.

On the up side, it generally, though not always, starts with a 7 day block off.

Enjoy!

Oh, and of course, a few have to be on Reserve over Xmas and New Year! Much less popular even than being assigned a trip. At least with a trip, six weeks out, you can make family plans etc! I did notice on my fleet, there were a surprisingly high number of pilots who felt too ill to work Xmas Day!

Which is a bit of a shame!

Sorry, no idea but one of the better informed might be able to help out.

As for the questions/comments about vulnerability to reserve, it is as 4468 describes: the various part time contracts have removed eligibility/vulnerability for a lot of people and as a consequence has increased the loading on the full timers...yes, it is certainly possible to be awarded or assigned a Long Haul reserve block (28days) as an aspirational part timer, especially if you are on 72%, but it doesn’t happen that often for those on the 58% deal. One partial solution might have been shorter reserve blocks and I thought there was some talk of that being introduced along with JSS but that hasn’t materialised.

Are you ‘certain’ about that?

RTR part timers definitely do Reserve. It’s all in BLRs. There is a form to bid for dates otherwise you can be assigned. HTH

But what you described are exactly why joining as a direct entry pilot onto a longhaul fleet is not the be-all.

Joining as a DEP LH you are joining on a much more senior fleet where everyone joining the fleet, apart from a few new entry pilots recruited after you onto the fleet, will be more senior then yourself. Even pilots moving from SH to LH will be more senior then yourself. Blindlines, or under jss getting maximum optimalisation, are all you will be doing for up to 5 years (unless significant amounts of new recruits join behind you on the fleet).

On SH as a new entrent you should be able to climb the fleet seniority list by around 15 to 20% a year were as on LH as a new entrant because of the above you will be hovering at the bottom for the best part of the first 5 years. That is the beauty of a seniority based system were it doesn’t really matter if new pilots go directly onto LH bypassing SH. Once that SH pilot moves to LH (s)he will get the higher roster satisfaction.
(Before flying hours are mentioned as a right to bypass SH. On my SH joiners course the least experienced pilot had 3000 hours)

Also the SH pilots moving to LH will have done around 5 years in the company and thus get more points for a reserve period then yourself. Joining the fleet, you start with the fleet average reserve points, but will have to do more often a reserve period then the pilots 5 years and 10 years in the company. On SH you will find just a few pilots longer in the company then 5/10 years so most are in the same band resulting in having to do less reserves then the new entry LH pilot. One might argue this banding system is not fair but most join on SH and will have done a fair few reserve periods on SH which are much harder then a LH reserve.

Holiday and Xmas are based on a point system and are the same for SH and LH. You start off with 0 so run a fair chance of not getting your first 2 Xmasses off, after which you should be able to. Holidays are the same. If you take a peak week summer school holiday as your week off you get less points then a for a week in the middle of November. The more points you have the more likely you will get the holiday over a periond you bit for.

Hey, what's with all this fretting about silly little aspects of your job when you're blind to the looming threat of job displacement through Artifical Intelligence. Just enjoy flying planes to earn a salary. Whilst you still can. FFS, stop bitching like a load of spoilt pansies and wake up! The world 'out there' is far more interesting and good fun.

Thank you for the valuable contribution to this thread. Amazing insight and right on subject. Think you maybe looking for the Daily Mail.

They can change quickly, however VJW is correct in saying that things may not turn out well. They haven’t on a number of occasions. I’m not sure what BA recruitment do regarding hold pool extension periods (went from 12 to 18 months when I was swimming back in 2012) however when it was over it was over. Reapply and start again was the only option. BA will never have a shortage in applicants, the fossett never seems to dry up.

Regardless, always best to have a plan B in aviation.

If they do let everyone in the hold pool drown, what an absolute waste of time and money that will have been.

I’m hoping that with their current focus on costs they will recognise that expiring the hold pool would be squandering all the money spent on interviews/sims.

Maybe, however at the time when I was in the pool a very senior BA Captain explained something to me. He agreed that waving goodbye to a pool of experienced pilots, who were in continued flying practice and whom had considerable time & money invested in their recruitment, was indeed criminal. However, according to him, if this had been the 'done thing' in BA since the dawn of time then it could be a very difficult process to change, especially if the people who were in support of it were any way influential (leading members of HR! ;) )

However, back in 2012/13, circumstances were quite different. IAG were to purchase bmi and as a result they would be required to integrate a massive number of pilots onto the BA list. PP24 would also no longer be available, something that was on the cards when I entered the pool! Additionally, the first batch of the FPP lads and ladies would filter through and would take priority (could you imagine the PR disaster if they didn't get flying jobs!). Towards the end of my tenure in the pool, the forecast for any further DEP recruitment was bleak. Little did anyone know that in under 12 months it would skyrocket to beyond anything that the airline had ever encountered. Funny place aviation. Luckily my plan B came to fruition around this time and I haven't looked back. Still, in hindsight, it was nice to have a go at the DEP assessments and be successful (well, sort of successful).

All other operators I have encountered require a repeat of the assessment if more than 12 months has elapsed without starting employment.

BA considering outsourcing training.Bad idea.DFO resigned over this.

Rumour. Correct. Rumour.

I have to say I'm becoming highly sceptical of who is writing some of these replies. FR Management possibly to stem to the outflow of pilots and attract newcomers?.. Nothing surprises me! It crosses my mind as some of the comments are not balanced and very anti BA, suggesting FR maybe better.

Madness and very worrying! Whilst I can't comment on Easy and whether people maybe happy to stay there, the only thing I can say is 4 sector days are not enjoyable and the lack of variety in the job over a lifetime would surely become dull for most.

I can comment on FR and stress it is not a nice place to work for many many reasons. Firstly the money is only better if you are based in the UK or Ireland on a fr contract(Captain). Anywhere else in Europe it's not. Tax situation is messy and its pointless comparing pay to contractor guys as they are most probably avoiding paying tax for the most part which is a risky and stressful game.

Ive witnessed HMRC chasing guys down in crew rooms and heard of police involvement around Europe. Not knowing if you will have your home repossesed if you ever get caught out is not a way to live and guys talk about running off to the Middle East if it ever came to it to avoid prosecution.

Personally I didn't get involved in any of that as its not worth the stress. So money aside whats its like. Everyone is miserable. I don't know many people who enjoy going to work. 4 sector days plus are hell and doing that 5 days in a row with minimum rest will probably put guys in an early grave. The guys doing it a long time In there 50's look exhausted and have an emptiness in their eyes.

Being based in London Stansted is a miserable. Crap facilities (most in the network becoming portacabin's) , no one smiles, you look like a janitor wearing the ridiculous blue company coat, people don't like you because you work for fr, no pride in the job, lack of respect from most people. No pay for standbys, no pay for anything outside of block hours so delays you work for free ( there are a lot of delays!), no food or drinks even when you have been working for free for 8 hours sat at the gate. Constantly being disturbed during rest periods to do favours and change duties.

Management have little respect for you and are always on the offensive. People are being called to head office to explain being sick for as little as 3/4 days in the year and given formal warnings and threatened that they will be dismissed if they call in sick again. If you have a few minutes delay for very legitimate reasons then expect to be called up by management who will blame you and give you a warning. Such a joy operating for them.

Also If guys are getting paid more than BA, remember that FR pilots are working their absolute max hours in the conditions mentioned. Money certainly isn't everything and especially if its only marginally more, having to put up with so much. Hotels are truly dreadful with no transfers arranged a lot of the time(wait months to be paid back for expenses).

I could go on and on with endless examples. Everything I've mentioned is 100% true with no exaggeration. The proof is in the pudding. Masses are leaving FR and more than 80% of guys I talk to are applying to leave. Anyone defending it, defend the statistics as they speak for themselves.

A bit harsh I feel. He/she only saying it as he/she sees it. And actually if you do withdraw the likelihood increases.