If indeed that is true will it be those at the front of the que or those at the back I wonder, though on a more positive outlook nobody knows the actual number of people swimming and some may already have moved elsewhere. So in conclusion i guess it makes nothing any clearer!

Hard to tell I suppose, I've heard an inkling of a rumor they might extend the hold pool time again. Time will tell, I know 2 or 3 guys/gals in the pool are moving to different airlines or taking an upgrade at their own place.

More great news for the holdpoolers!

No DEP for 2018... Holding time extended to another year but an interview is required if, big if, a start date is eventually given in 2019.

so, when is virgin opening up then? :}

Are you able to provide a source for that?

No DEPs at all for '18 contradicts info being put out by a v senior BA flight Ops wheel in a meeting a couple of weeks back. Then again, he could have been being kept in the dark as much as anybody else, and plans certainly change on a daily basis.

Wiggy if you were swimming you'd have an email from the source as of 1 hour ago ;)

Ahh..really sorry to hear that...

So much for management forums..

Good luck, hope the swimmers get something that works out.

CTC Whitetail self sponsored cadets have (or shortly will be) selected to join us in 2018/19. It would seem that they are interviewed after their ground exams are complete. Min requirements being an 85% average on their ATPLs and BBC at A-Level or equivalent. These new 'cadets' seem to be filling the hole left by the lack of FPPs once the last batch join at the end of this year/beginning of 2018.

I'm sure that it's completely coincidental that our former head of short haul joined CTC last year(!)

I don't want to be rude but can someone explain

Why are they putting cadets in front of 200 experienced, tried and tested proven pilots. whom most would bend over backwards to work for BA. Especially those of us coming from low cost airlines ?

Personally no idea, if they really have deliberately displaced those in the pool in favour of cadets then maybe in the current climate BA management have decided they want a younger malleable "product" :yuk:...after all that's a concept that has worked really well with Mixed Fleet.

OTOH if you fancy darker conspiracy theories I'd refer you to the final sentence in EMB-145LR's post....it's as good a guess as any.

A lot of the guys in the hold pool are the same age as the cadets. Who knows I guess. Very disappointed to say the least to be waiting this long with little or no information.

If I were being cynical I would say that over the first 8 years in the company they are paid a significant amount less than DEPs and are simply much cheaper.

They are cheap! Cadets will work for a third of money and pay for all their own training an ideal combo for AC. Race to the bottom accelerates all the time.

A few less £££ on the spreadsheet.

That's it. That's all BA care about.

Unfortunately it's not a huge surprise. The FPP if it runs again is going to look very different. All I heard is BA is no longer prepared to carry the debt on their books. What does that mean? You will have to secure the funding yourself........! The whole point was to find great guys and girls regardless of their ability to secure a loan. Looks like that's gone and it's a great shame. The bods in flight ops have their view but accountants rule it seems. As far as DEP being overlooked for cadets from flight schools first I have heard of it but you have got to expect BA to be looking at other airlines SH FO costs with green eyes. Any accountant will be asking why we are paying newly recruited FO's on the airbus so much more than other airlines. LH granted very different as you require experience but the FPP has proven that BA can operate its SH network with less experience in the RHS. With that we have got to expect an appetite to reduce cost by aiming to recruit cadets. Very often though what is said and what people hear are very different. It would surly take a large policy change and BALPA's agreement to recruit cadets from flight school directly ahead of those in the pool.

BA has to compete with the loco's and it's serious about doing so. With increasing momentum we are becoming one but BA is always going to cater for the smaller premium businesss on SH too. First it was productivity from pilots, then came the FPP, then changes to allowances and flight pay, after that it was the vote for bidline 2. That was the wrong option so we had to vote again until we got it right with JSS coming next year. The product has changed with BOB, outstation staff have been replaced with handling agents etc etc. It not desirable but I do believe it is necessary. Don't believe everything you hear as often it's doom only for it to turn out to be a bit of a pain in the arse.

Just a question Bex though, why exactly is it necessary when we are making £1.5 Billion in profit, way more than easyJet and Norwegian (whose CFO has incidentally just walked out without notice because they can't afford to finance the new aircraft)? Whether or not Short Haul is as profitable in its own right as easyJet or Ryanair is absolutely irrelevant because BA is not (for now) separated into Long Haul and Short Haul, the financial results are posted as the single entity that the company is. As a single entity the profits are exceeding a Billion for three years on the spin now and Short Haul feeds the Long Haul. What does it ultimately matter what the cost base for Short Haul is in comparison to other airlines when we are vastly out performing them in financial results? Maybe I'm missing something - I have been accused of being slow in the past - but I really do need this explained. This is not a company in poverty. Granted that doesn't mean we should accept inefficiencies and gross wastes but you cannot provide a premium product by outsourcing everything. That's just basic stuff. It sickens me how this brand is being cheapened by some two bob low cost CEO.

You make some good points Rex. The return on investment is less and investors want a greater return. The message is fairly clear. Those who are prepared to pay want a better product, everyone else wants it cheap and shareholders want greater returns. Profits are up yes but what about the revenue? I am just a simple guy really so it's probably me missing something.

There seems to be the assumption made that Holdpoolers (NTR) wouldn't be prepared to self fund a TR or be prepared to accept the lower pay of a CTC cadet? (Which looks to be the way BA are going).

I for one, would do anything (including accepting all of the above) to secure my dream job of working for BA. I used to believe that BA was one of the few airlines remaining that valued some previous life and aviation experience when recruiting FOs but that looks to have died a death.

Anyway to my original point, why not ask the NTR in the pool if they would be willing to self fund or pay back TR costs? Or is it a case of not wanting to declare what BA has become?

Sorry to other swimmers for volunteering lower Ts and Cs but I think the writing is on the wall for me and others. Looks like I will have to go and pay CTC 10k+ to validate my flying experience to date, sad times!

Lots of very (sadly) valid comment above,

bex, I may be missing the context for this comment, if so apologies, but can you clarify what you meant by:

(my emphasis)

I may be misinformed from time to time but AFAIK BALPA has no input into BA's recruiting mechanism and I suspect BALPA would have had no say at all at in this decision

Sorry if I'm sounding picky but I'm just trying to stop stories along the lines of "being stitched up by BALPA/senior pilots" starting to circulate - we've had enough of those already ;) .