You summed it up poorly there.

What a typically arrogant and condescending post! Over the course of my working career I will earn hundreds of thousands less than a PP24 (a scale I knew nothing about untill joining BA), if you can give me one articulate reason as to why we are worth that much less than "A" scalers then I would be interested to here it. Furthermore why is it perfectly acceptable for some to shake every penny out of the BA money tree but for anyone joining over the last few years we should simply be happy to be employed?But hey providing you are all Ok we will keep our "petulant" teenage mouths shut!

Because BA think that's what you're worth - and the fact that people are still applying shows the market is seemingly prepared to accept it.

I don't think you'll find a single current BA pilot who likes that as it inevitably puts pressure on those on better rates.

Let me paraphrase your statement and return it to you.

If you can give me one articulate reason as to how current "A" scalers could retain those rates for all future joiners, then I would be interested to hear it.

Again, in a nutshell, a big part of what's wrong with this industry. Sounds very "management" to me: you should be bloody grateful that we have deigned to give you a job, so shut up and row harder.

As long as people are prepared to accept B, C and D (and presumably E, F and G) scale packages, Ts&Cs are only going to go one way. Seniority is a big part of the problem: it traps people and prevents them from efficiently taking their skills elsewhere, thereby applying downwards pressure on Ts&Cs. From a management perspective, why would they offer improved conditions, or even keep conditions the same if: a) people will continue to apply regardless, and b) nobody will leave anyway because they're trapped by seniority?

This argument could go round in circles forever and it's not worth anyone's time doing that. My real point is this, I don't blame people for voting the way they did ultimately it would take an act of extreme generosity to give up your own terms and conditions to protect those of a bunch of people you have never met, I get that! But the union is supposed to be their to protect the industry not just a small group of select pilots. The futures of every single new pilot should never have been used as a bargaining chip in negotiations to protect the rights of a few. It was ultimately a very self serving thing to do from all involved which has ultimately devalued your own jobs as well as everyone else's. As I said I understand the reasons for voting that way and I doubt I would have done any different, but don't now pretend like we have nothing to complain about, you made a decision based on selfish reasons at least now have the balls to own that decision and not slag us off because we dared to question it. BA now has an A scale and a B scale and I find it hard to reconcile getting paid a lot less than other people to do the same job you may disagree and that is of course your right, but please don't call me a petulant child because I deared to highlight the injustice.

I must say I'm pretty shocked reading some of this, this must be unprecedented, seeing this much anger directed at BA.


I'm getting the feeling, from the tone on here and chit chat I hear down route, that maybe some people shouldn't have left commands (or imminent command) at other, often perfectly good and respectable airlines to chase the BA dream. I was tempted myself for a while but then thought better of it! - I remembered the lessons I learned from older boys and girls - get your command and stay in that seat! I mean this in the nicest possible way, but maybe some of these guys should have gone off to the Middle East as DEC's if they really wanted the long haul 'dream'.

I'm astonished that you managed to research, interview and be offered a job at BA without ever coming across PP24/34. It suggests to me that your level of due dilligence before joining was somewhere between lacking and unjustifiably :mad:

I write this as a relatively new joiner. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is life here pretty much exactly as I expected it to be, both good and bad? Yes. Next time do your research.

Another amazigly condescending post, somehow in all my preparation for interview I forgot to research historic pay scales, forgive me it's amazing they even offered me a job with such lack of prep. And what do you mean "next time"? You mean next time I interview for BA? All I am trying to say is that I am entitled to a view point without being called a petulant child or being spoken down to like a naughty teenager, wether you agree or not. End of my conversation on the subject!

I think you will go through your career bitter and twisted. Time to get another job

Like the majority of pilots

Back onto the topic of recruitment I heard of a Flybe guy being hooked out of the hold pool recently and given a start date for a 777 course? Again something to please all the unfrozen guys & gals on the bus!

]

He will hate flying to Barbados on a weekend.

Another charmer. :D

I didn't come from Ryanair.

Yes, handbags away and back on topic....

Great news for those being fished out of the pool, especially against the backdrop of the recent Flybe results. Not so good for those being flogged to death on short haul looking to move on.

Flybe then or wherever it was I'll guarantee you were earning way less than you are now for doing the exact same job. So quit whining. If Ba isn't good enough for you then I suggest a different career because really it doesn't get any better.

Words fail me!

I got a holdpool email update about 3 weeks ago or so saying no change to email received in Jan. One in Jan said no more DEP's in 2017. Has something completely different occurred with regards to their plans and executing (plucking people out the pool) in 3 weeks??

That 180 happened quick.

Quite a statement and completely inaccurate on ALL counts.

You've mistaken my comments regarding the degradation of T's and C's that have adversely affected those at the bottom disproportionately as mere whining and your attitude is pretty pompous quite frankly.

Big picture wise, I'm happy at BA. But it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to question the removal of some very big chunks of my T's and C's which have been very costly.

Maybe redirect your aggression away from your fellow colleagues and towards the consistent pokes and prods at our T's and C's as a workforce. Just a thought.

I'd have thought that was VERY subjective. I know of plenty of people in this and my previous airline who wouldn't entertain a move to BA. (Granted there aren't a lot of brits in my current airline).

FPA (around £700 per month) was removed last year and replaced with Variable Flying Pay. This means that on a Reserve month or a month containing Leave, Duty Free Week, Sickness or Training you're pay will be significantly reduced simply through not flying.

Some of this pay is of course recovered but being junior means that you're largely unable to affect your roster and therefore have limited say over how much of that money you actually recover. That's not a grumble, just a fact.

Bidline has also been voted out in favour of the new (and largely unknown) JSS system, which is currently under construction and trial. No one really know what this will look like but from what I've read it appears to be a completely opaque preference system with an emphasis on optimisation of flight crew.

Note I've not mentioned the different Pay Point scales as the updated version was introduced before I joined and therefore have no right to complain, as you rightly say.

I should add that the loss of FPA and Bidline was democratic across the BA flight crew community and as such I accept the result. But it doesn't mean I have to like it.