May I again just point out to the doommongers on here that, as it stands, British Airways are more profitable than easyJet (despite carrying less passengers and presumably burning more fuel) and far more profitable than Vueling. Granted that is including the Long Haul operation but, seeing as Short Haul is now profitable in its own right and that it feeds into the Long Haul operation, may I ask how the enormous requirement to reduce wages can be argued?

Also I think it would be stupendously awful management for a new CEO to come into a profitable company and immediately set about reducing T's & C's of the staff.

Rex

There's no point in bringing logic or other airlines profits into the argument when it comes to defending BA short haul T&Cs. The bean counters at BA continually want to reduce employee costs. The board will look at "improving shareholder value" and the Board will be looking at their bonuses.

Wiggy I'm fairly sure they'd be on very shaky ground legally trying to issue direct pay cuts in a profitable company. Even the weakest Union (Balpa?) could defend that position with ease.

As I said that would be p*ss poor and clueless management for any CEO to come in and immediately set about destroying the terms and conditions of the staff with the argument of increasing profit. You'd increase profit by paying the staff nothing too, doesn't mean you can get away with it.

I agree that you won't see direct pay cuts for all the reasons you mention...but "they" can be very cunning and I've never ever seen the company reduce the downward pressure on T&Cs, even on the occasions when we were profitable in the distant past. So I'd expect more of the same from BA Head Office and BALPA ( and by that I mean the union members, not just the reps) can't take a breather or assume the pressure is off just because we're well in the black for once.

Anyway, back to the thread.......

No matter what it says on the easyJet DEP thread, if you're in your thirties a move from easy to BA is still a no brainer because it gives you choices that you will never get in easyJet. When factoring the comparative 'package value', easyJet do not provide health care, phi or an acceptable pension. Staff travel is pretty rubbish as is the crew food. The rosters are written by the bonus driven with unrealistic turnarounds and dubious block times. That is the easyJet status quo and isn't likely to improve given around 25% of the workforce can't grasp the significance of strong trade union representation. While the orange package is by no means the worst of the low cost offerings in terms of basic and ancillary cash it is way off legacy offerings in most other areas. Going forward post EASA most guys will find it necessary to go part-time in order to keep themselves going towards retirement. That puts quite a different slant on the overall figures too.

I am a new joiner at BA on shorthaul and can honestly say I am enjoying every minute of it.

Compared to my previous aviation experiences (20 years in the military and turbopropping) it is fantastic.

Of course it is not all sweetness and light nowhere is as T's and C's are being eroded across the industry (talk to the guys in the sandpit). It's horses for courses if you want to apply and work for BA go for it, if you don't, don't simple really.

I believe you could put a bunch of pilots in a free bar with free dancing girls/boys and some would complain that it was lager not bitter and blondes not brunettes.

My teacher told me I would never get a job staring out of Windows... How wrong he was !

SkyRocket10
Mate.

What I said was, anyone who wants a LGW command can get it. Anyone who wants a LHR command can get it.

What's "no longer the case"????????:rolleyes:

Why on earth are people bidding from LGW, for LHR postings, if they don't want them????

That's just c0cking up their colleagues, and frankly there should be a penalty for that!

daveandg

Congrats on passing the selection and making it in to the pool!

The simple answer is that your bidding power initially will be zero. To start with you will be rostered blind lines (the company chooses your roster). Typically this will be a mix of 2/3 day trips and day trips. Longer trips of 4 or 5 days tend to be on trip lines.

The good news is that such is the pace of recruitment that you will soon find yourself able to achieve trip lines. Once you are about 10% off the bottom of your status you should start getting something you bid for. You might need to put in 30 or 40 lines to start with and be happy getting your 25th choice, but again, if recruitment keeps up you will soon move up the list. To give you an idea, in 5 years I've moved up 85% off the bottom, so now get my first choice every month. To consistently achieve 4 or 5 day trips you need to be quite senior as they tend to go to commuters who prefer to bunch their work together.

Just to echo some previous posters, everything in aviation is hearsay and conjecture along with the notorious Galley FM. My last outfit was apparently about to become an outpost of Virgin, never happened. While I am sure our new CEO will have some new ideas, and i'm sure some will be unpopular, until it happens I will not speculate or allow myself to become worried.

At the end of the day, I am enjoying every single second of working at BA. Yes, they demand very high standards, but that's fantastic. The skippers I go to work with are invariably good guys, with lots of experience. I can honesty say that I haven't flown with one I have disliked yet, I am not stupid enough to think this will go on forever, but this is my finding so far.

My salary and over all package has increased significantly. Even on the "terrible" SH. I have more days off, and am less fatigued by a significant margin than previous. Yes, living in the South is not for everyone, and yes I will potentially be waiting 17/18 years for a LH command. That's fine. I am young, I am more than happy to explore the various opportunities available to me before then. I know where my priorities lie, what I want, and I weighed up the benefits/negatives. It's a personal decision. Being based in Liverpool with an early command at Easy is great for some people, no better, no less. The fact remains, this was the right decision for me, and I am truly loving every second.

Regards Seniority, I am just starting to get lines I want, and I am significantly up the seniority list already, this with less than 12 months in the company.

Daveandg

Interested to know if you are 320 rated already? Presuming you are if you have been told to expect a course in the Spring........

Because:

*** in cruise back to LHR sometime in 2013***

SFO Bloggs: I've just been surprisingly successful in a command course for P32X next year!
Capt Heathrow: Gatwick?! Why on earth would you want to work there? Airbus bases have never worked there, you'll be out of a job pretty soon! And Carmen sucks so you'll never get what you want, and you'll always have really punishing 4 sector days because there's no credit system.
SFO Bloggs: Oh don't worry, I'll be putting a bid in to come back here next year! Bidline rules!

*** Summer 2014 after a few tough months of Command Course, plus consolidation at new base ***

FO Gatwick: Have you put in a PRIAM bid?
Capt Bloggs: Yeah, just back to Heathrow.
FO Gatwick: Oh that's a shame.

*** November 2014 after settling in***

FO Gatwick: Did you get your PRIAM bid?
Capt Bloggs: Yes, but I actually really quite like it here. The crew are really nice, the flying interesting and I've got a bit more used to Carmen now. I also quite like being at home with the kids a bit more and the car park is 5 min stroll from CRC! Dead easy.
FO Gatwick: Are you staying then?
Capt Bloggs: Think I might do actually!

Hi all,

As a current loco captain based in EDI I'm trying to quantify the drop in income that would come with a move to BA LH. For those that would say "try using the search function" I have read each and every page of this 117 page thread and have found snippets aplenty but would like a few things confirmed (as best anything can be on an anonymous forum)

1. Net income £4200? What is the approximate range around that? One poster mentioned worst of £3500 and best of £5500. That's quite a range if true.

2. Commuting costs. One poster mentioned "£94 a pop", would that be the cost of a staff travel round trip from EDI (after the six months of course)? Do you get staff parking anywhere other than london? I often see BA crew in EDI staff car parks but perhaps they're cityflyer.

3. Conversion course costs. I feel I know the answer to this but I assume that I would be liable for all accomodation costs during my initial training as it would be at my "home" base. If so, how long is initial training including conversion course?

4. Leave. Sounds like a complex business so not looking for a full run-down but as a junior pilot (and would be for some time as DEP LH) is it realistic to get at least one family-holiday sized chunk of leave during school holidays (whichever holiday) each year?

5. Blindlines. I understand that this means the company gives you what they want but does it mean that you get "undesirable" trips or is the downside purely that you have no control over days off? Is it a case of pot luck and you may get a good commutable roster with good destinations or you might not? Or is it the case that these lines generally generate downright unpleasant rosters.

6. How many trips on average would a blindline generate for LH? (To help work out commuting costs) and how many nights per month on average would a LH pilot need to spend in a london B&B as part of commuting (perhaps too variable to answer)

Answers to any of the above would be very much appreciated. I know I want to do the job but I need to know the nitty gritty first and have my eyes as wide open as possible. As someone with a family/mortgage/blah/blah I need to know the above before committing . I know the answers will largely be bad news compared to my current deal but it's a question of how bad.

Hopefully any answers will be of use to others in a similar situation.

Thanks in advance.

Stocious
Either you haven't a clue what you're talking about, or your terminology is very sloppy?

Which is it?

If you live close to LGW, it can work of course. (Though everyone at Easy is paid better and works less) If you don't live close to LGW, it's unsustainable whoever you work for.

Busbo

1. A lot of effort has gone into reducing the variable element in basic pay - some of the variability in the amounts being posted might be explained by people picking up extra work as part of the "open time" (overtime) process.

2. Domestic standby return fares can now be even more expensive than the figure you mentioned..check your PMs. Car parking arrangements seem generally to be down to individual airports.

3. Yep, if LHR based and doing any training at LHR ( initial, recurrent or conversion) you pay for your food and accommodation. Somebody more recent will hopefully give you a handle on the timescale for an intial course.

4. There's a points system for leave to stop the senior guys hogging the popular slots. That means some years you'll get family friendly leave, sometimes you won't.

5 and 6. ..... You might want to ask those questions again in about a month when we start seeing for the first time our EASA compliant LH rosters.

In the meantime I'll say that historically blind lines have always been a bit of pot luck, with the odd good and a few iffy trips, but they could be massaged to be more friendly in terms of blocks of days off by a bit of trip swopping (e.g to generate a back to back to get specific days off). However it seems under EASA compliant FTLs things are going to be much more restrictive. As it stands we do know that back to backs at base will be almost impossible (unless BA organises/funds them), that in many circumstances you'll need more time off at base post trip than currently is the case, and that certain combinations of trips will be very problematic. We'll start getting a few clues as to the shape of things to come when the Feb intial bid process starts just before Christmas. We won't see the new blindlines until well into January.

Ultimately not sure if there's much "meat" on that post but hope it helps a little bit.

Long Haul DEP offers
 

Hi,

Has anyone received a long haul offer since the email went out? If so, would you mind mentioning which fleet, and your previous experience?

And please can I say a huge THANK YOU to those at BA that take the time to reply to all of the questions put forth. I know that I really appreciate the insight!:D

Busbo

commuting on blindlines is going to tough.
5-6 trips per month probably, at £100 each rtn flt.
You'll probably need to stay before a couple of these at least.

Leave is a pain in BA. Getting time off during school time is difficult.
I havent managed to get a week at xmas for 5 years, and ive got 26 years in.

I appreciate the responses.

It appears the commuting aspect of what I'm considering may be the deal breaker.

I had thought it would be 3 or 4 trips, 5 on a bad month. Now Im hearing of a sixth.

I also (it appears somewhat naively) thought the cost of staff travel commuting would be of a more negligible nature. Sadly there's nothing negligible about £100 return 5 or 6 times a month.

Oh well, better to find out now I suppose.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

BA
 

I commute on LH as a new Joiner. Worst case five trips, picked up over time….. generally four a month sometimes even three on a BL:ok:. Personally I really enjoy Blind-lines, but then again I don't mind landing at 5am on a saturday and getting the most out of the weekend from that.

I have stayed in London twice over the past six months. Budget 500 quid but I seem to around the 350 pound mark for the commute so far. (70 pounds return for me).

My overall experience so far has been extremely positive, sure it has drawbacks but nowhere is perfect and in my opinion pilots will always have a moan!!!!!! Commuting on LH is relatively straight forward and significantly less tiring than SH was!!!!

From a short haul perspective as a new joiner I would say that things here are a lot better than the doom mongers make out.

I've been here for just under five months now. The only really negatives I've experienced have been the very variable quality of training at CTC during the type rating, especially during ground school, and the difficulty one can experience in finding out who or which department to contact when various needs arise. It's a huge company and generally rather impersonal, but I'm used to that from my previous employer. You won't see the same people very often, and in terms of cabin crew there is generally very little interaction with crews generally swapping out on every other flight.

However, apart from those minor gripes my experience has been extremely positive so far. The actual training done at BA has been excellent. The variety of trips and ability to trade with colleagues and open time means that I have been able to get exactly what I want and need in terms of schedule every month. I've been on the line for three months now and have had two blind lines and this month I have a trip line. I've managed to get day trips almost exclusively (which is what I want), and I'm averaging around 14-15 days off per month. For December I've got 18 days off without using any leave (but I did use clash and protect to get an extra three days off). 8 of those days are in a row over Christmas. If you want tours then you can easily get them, likewise with day trips.

I feel more rested and better treated at BA than I ever did at my previous airlines. When at work short haul is hard work, and BA hold you to a very high standard, but you are rewarded with a good quality of life and a very good pay and benefits package.

The quick commands seen this year probably won't arise next year, and if they do you will still be paid less than your counterparts at easyJet for quite a few years. But life in the RHS is good and you can forge a career that suits your own personal goals.

A couple of week ago I was offered a 777 course starting beginning of March. Currently flying the 737 for loco with just over 4000TT. I applied in June, was in holding pool for 8 weeks. Can't wait!