:ok:

@Aldente
To answer your question directly: private consultants & barrister - costs are fully covered by my medical & legal insurances.
On a more serious note:
Regarding the part that they work 2x as hard: last month I was a total of 10 days away from home for work, did 68 hours. Some of my friends in non-aviation sectors do as much in a week.
As for the salary, i was referring to my friends and acquaintances who are, just like me, halfway up the ladder in their professional careers. I'm not comparing with private medical consultants and barristers with big successful private practices.

@Polax52
I had to throw in borrowed money for my flight training (no silver spoon)
I also had my share of LOCO flying before i got a lucky brake at a major.
and I greatly sympathize with my (our) colleagues at EZY and RYR; the erosion of their T&C's will be a precedent for all of us.

Is there a way to stop the erosion and restore the status of our profession? It will be very difficult. People want to go from A to B, as cheap as possible.
Airlines have one important element on their side: the media. Pilots demanding better T&C's, are being put down in the press as "overpaid busdrivers who want even more" The public thinks that airplanes fly by themselves. Try to explain the fact that the new EASA FTL is unacceptable from a pilots point of view and people will laugh at you. Add to this the fact that in a few years time there will be 1000s of pilots coming from schools in India and China. 14 months and a MPL will do the trick. Cheap labour with comparable quality. It happened to the maritime sector 20 years ago and the beancounters are steering aviation in the same direction.

Yes, but when they are also at the top of their career after working hard for maybe 20 or 30 years, I wonder who will be the better paid ? ........

I know who my money's on !

;)

@Aldente
In some countries and airlines (apparently not the UK) pilot's pay is still very well on par with that of other professionals, halfway and on the top of the career ladder.
…and I know who my money is on :E

End of today's pi**ing contest :ok:

Started flying 1966, seen all the FUN gradually go out of it as well as the usual complaints, pay/workload/conditions etc, glad to be retired leaving it to the starstruck.

Aldente it doesn't have to be a miserable life - many of us are
into commodities and Forex, which is not only breathtakingly
interesting but gets you a life outside the damn cockpit.

Airline salaries are crap nowadays as you know. Commodities
and FX takes a good deal of time to master, but in the end it
does one well - I'm making (on average) my current pay as
captain, thus doubling my salary so to speak. The beauty of it
is that you can effectively trade online at home, on overnights
and even during transits.

Both activities require the hands-on approach on a daily basis
to be financially effective, so don't be so quick to pick up the
phone on a reserve day.

Thank you Slowjet, for your kind words.

aviation a career? you mean a hobby?:confused:

In my opinion, the problem is that we're all dreamers in one way or the other. We dream about a lifestyle that isn't there and most of us are prepared to do anything to make the equation go together. In that process we're tearing up all terms and conditions, making the whole industry a rich man's hobby...

Stop dreaming and smell the reality. We need to be as tough as the beancounters. Only the salary can pay mortgages and living costs. Nothing else.

If you really love flying, do something else for a living and buy your own plane.

/LnS

Anyway, BACK IN THE REAL WORLD...

Still love the job, it's pretty clear that most of your colleagues will fall into one of two catagories:

A. Always angry at something to do with management, no matter what. Will complain about the quality of cutlery we get to the the ink quality setting they use on the printers to print the flight plans. Will never be happy, it consumes them at work and at home.

B. Love the job they do, realise that every company has it's issues and gets on with it. Is part of the union and will always wish for things to be better. At work they are positive and upbeat, glad that they aren't stuck behind a desk doing a mind numbing job 9-5 and get paid a third of what they do now. Loves to talk about anything from cars to holidays to politics to absolutely anything. When they go home they forget about work and enjoy their time with the family and that fast car. A true pleasure to spend the day with.

Unfortunately for forum readers, 90% of catagory B will say the following when PPRUNE is mentioned "PPRUNE? I used to visit it, but don't bother anymore, it's full of negativity and bull!!!!".

I know which one I want to be. The choice is yours, completely.

Polax52, please do yourself a favor and scroll the page all the way down. Read the red warning - there's a faint possibility it just might be relevant.

Now, if I were unscrupulous owner of flying school and my business model is to train far more pilots than job market demands - or go bust, It would be in my best interest to make potential vict... I mean future airline pilots, think their decision to invest time and money in training towards ATPL was very wise and sound. Posing as an airline pilot on anonymous forum and rebuking everyone claiming it's not all wine & roses in cockpit and around it would certainly be one of my marketing tools. If for no other reason, then because it's free.

Of course, in our world, which is the best of all possible worlds, there is no such thing as an unscrupulous FTO owner. Pilots are underworked, overpaid and well respected. The Invisible Hand Of Market (TM) takes care of any inefficiency, therefore there are no excessive numbers of candidates enrolled into ATPL courses and everyone finishing them has an excellent chance of getting employed in reasonable time.

I read a book recently called the life of captain reilly, and it pretty much sums up what this thread is about. Unfortunately it only appears to be available an an ebook, but the guy sums it up in one phrase - glamour doesn't fly anymore.

I remember easyjet's LPL base captain on their airline show (before I joined them) sitting on the flight deck - no tie - telling the camera that 'we're just bus drivers really'. I'm afraid my airline, and similar, have ruined things for all of us! I just hope we can claw our profession back before it's gone forever.

You might be right; there are no end to the number of hopefuls wanting to mortage their life for a chance to fly for peanuts here in the UK. Perhaps a crash attibutable to inexperience, culture or fatigue will change things, but I hope someone heads that off before it's too late.

REALLY?
 

(Smith: The salraies payed to pilots nowadays are digusting ...................they are far, far too high. I'd willingly sell my house and all it's contents to fly for an airline.)

Are you serious?
Are you management? LOL
Why don´t you do it then. Go ahead, sell your home and in a few years see how you feel about it and update your comment.

For aspiring pilots: Don´t Do It. Save your money, go to Med School and buy yourself a small plane to fly on the weekends.
Flying for the airlines sucks.

"So You Want To Be An Airline Pilot " thread on this site says it all. Depressing but accurate. Almost funny but the truth takes the humour out of it, after a while !

Slowjet,Looks like the Mods removed that post ! Can't find it anywhere but I did see it. Very funny & highly accurate !