DEC in FR?? Last time didn't work out to well so I hear :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

5/3 will happen indeed, and the next step is 5-2-5-3, which is more productive and will keep the cost down :ok:

You, as pilots flying white-blue-yellow NGs, need an union badly.

Pilot 999 is probably right when he doesn't welcome union.

Billy, there's a red warning for you on the bottom of every PPRuNe page.

Personally Im not a big fan of unions as well, but it is here the lesser of two evils. You can say you dont want the union, which will cost you 1% of your basic salary, but without the union you will lose more %'s in time and be treated like s:mad:t till eternity. And T&C will not get any better.
In all my years I never seen that happen. And if they gave something, it is only something they took from the pilots before or should have been given long time ago.

@ D O Guerrero,

what planet are you from? RYR could be a lot worse? Tell me how, because besides the 5/4 roster all the rest is already at or below the legal minima and not that great!! How many airlines did you work before to compare RYR with?

Rednex, not on the BRS rosters that i've seen!

Check that all days appear on the roster, if you have a work day, but no work or stby has been allocated, the day just gets missed out of your published roster.

Mikehotel152 states...

The contractual agreement is not between the pilot and FR but between the pilot and Brookfield. With that being said refusing to fly would be a breach of contract between the pilot and Brookfield.

An alternative is to have Brookies get together and form either an association or union. The downside is that FR would not be bound to any agreements entered into by and between the contractors or Brookfield. So at the end of the day it would be a lose lose situation.

Has anyone been to one of the meetings yet that could furnish us all with the details of whats involved?

YYZ

Pilot999 I really dont know what your on to say we dont need a union,My only guess is that your on a contract from 10 or 15 years ago and a cushy one, and that you have been permanently blinded to what goes on around you in the workplace and to your colleagues problems.
The reality is that Ryanair employ tactics to prevent us uniting but the when 5,3 arrives there is going to be so many people union or not pissed off because they cannot travel home to see there families from bases in the back arse of nowhere in which they had no option to go.
The paranoia and fear that Ryanair spread to prevent unity will not work anymore people are smarter than this.And we have had enough....

Whats involved? whats involved? I'll tell you whats involved! it's balls!!!! and whether or not we have any, because with 297 (thats right folks 297 and counting)pilots having resigned this year we have them well and truly by theres, now its time to see if we have any, because for sure they are wondering it, they will offer !!!! dressed up as chocolate and then hold there breaths and see if we take it, my advise and its what I'll be doing is telling them using language that only they understand to get :mad:, and tell them, this is what i want or you can kiss my peverbal arse good bye.

Unions!!! for :mad: sake, forget them its not going to happen. certainly not in time to get decent money this time around. Its clear as mud to me they are rattled, last 2 times around when the ball was in there court they had town hall meetings mid jan with the new "offer", this time around it's nearly mid march and not a dicky bird from them, WHY???? because they are heads in the sand. My advise, grow a pair. stop asking stupid question like, WHAT'S THE OFFER? make it happen yourself, or bend over again.

bia botal, breath a little before you pass out, I am one of the 297 that you mention.

Having an interest in what the company has to offer does not make someone an idiot, to make an informed decision you must first have all the facts, FR does tend to keep people in the dark and offering any information to people will only serve to make the resolve stronger! it is too late for me as im going but it would be good for the guys remaining.

Bia botal - where did you get the 297 figure from? I'm not disputing it - just wondering the source of the information. Is that this year (2011)? Or in the last year (ie 12 months)?

Sounds like 5/3 is rapidly coming and despite being reasonably happy over the last few years that will speed up my exit from the company.

5/3
 

Funny as it can seem, 5 3 seems a paradise to me, that i left few years back Ryanair for a 6-5 at home, and now i am on a 6-1 in Turkey!

All depends where u come from, but i see no problem for RYR to find 297 people that like 5-3

5/3 based at home isn't that bad, it becomes a problem when you are a 2 hours fly time away from home turf!
If you consider that those who left for greener pastures are either Captains of Senior F/Os it becomes quite clear that if you want to replace them you not only have to offer a decent roster but also some kind of civilized T&C....and you should see the BRK contract on offer now.....PATHETIC!

Second phone call from Rostering today.

I wonder what is happening??

I know its pathetic, i live 5 min away from CIA and i still talk to my ex collegues. The thing is, apart from BA and LH and AF, the rest became pathetic in its own special way for each country.
Imagine i live 2 hours away from Rome, have no free tickets and no consecutive days off (7 total a month), no annual leave for the first 12 months (and its a 1 year contract to start with). And they call it a MAJOR Airline.

If ryanair offers a chance to senior FO to upgrade (they need more than internal upgrade can provide) i bet lots will knock, included EXs.

So let me understand: you left the company because you didn't like it (can't blame you for that), you went somewhere else and ended up in Turkey on a crap contract in the right hand seat. Now you come here trying to convince us that since you left without finding what you were looking for then FR isn't too bad for you now? On top of that you are suggesting that FR should even re-hire people like you and train you to the left hand seat straight away?
Our senior F/Os are giving up their command to seek better and more civilized T&C's in the sandpit while you would bend over just to move to the left?

It's absolutely clear to me that your comments are purely driven by you own selfish agenda; we are trying to make this company a better place to work, get it?

Seems they are already 'plugging the holes'. Seeing an odd day here and there (european bases) appearing on my roster. Typical RYR reactive approach. It is going to be very interesting to see how the summer schedule pans out, especially on 5/3. 100 hours+ already scheduled for March! :sad:

Regarding bases, it beggars belief that there is no system to find out which bases have vacancies, and how many CPT/FO's are waiting. Each base Captain could be responsible for maintaining the list, rather than producing waste of time/bullsh#t fuel/on time leagues!

Schimples!
:ugh:

Pull the plug
 

1. Buy a cheap mobile phone and make that your contact number for Crewcontrol
2. Turn the phone off on your days off

You have the power to turn the screw, for a change.

Quite and the trouble with this Industry is that you can end up eating your words!

I don't understand all this talk about buying a second mobile phone? When crew control called me recently to work an off day i told them "nope, busy, sorry"....they can go and **** themselves as far as i'm concerned.

DannyAlliga,
your point being? i left the company to change business and go VIP before the crisis came, it was great and ryanair was good for me as well, i left because of change of lifestyle.
I ended up where i am because of something you dont know about obviously because u were employed during this time. I am ATPL since 11 years and lost 5 jobs because of crisis, so i have a prospective and some ideas about what is outside, and if i am telling you i would come back (to a 5-3 or 5-4 and 4500 euros a month for a FO) means that outside is the dark ages.
Do you wanna know why i say so? because i know.

What has this to do with being selfish you gotta tell me.
Since i say that i prefer ryanair to 4 months here, 4 months there etc etc, then i am driving down your T and C, that i enjoyed before already and know exactly how !!!! it is??

One thing you can do is leave, as you guys are doing, but then do not expect them not to replace you, of course i will not accept a !!!!tier contract than yours now, but if what they offer is better than turkey on a 6-1, that is not being selfish, it is being NORMAL if i accept.

Sincerely do not see your point.


PS your senior fo are giving up their command (as i did) to find better places to be (as i believed were existing) so i understand them, and since i explored a lot of other pastures i can say, at the moment, i find ryanair one of the best companies i worked for all in all, believe it or not.

ALITALIA, NETJETS, RYANAIR, TURKISH, AIR ITALY, PRIVATAIR, OMAN AIR
those are some of my experiences.

Middle East no thanks.

Interested to hear your view on middle east.

I am Ryanair some time but was curious before xmas and decided to look around. Very many jobs around at this time - helps as I speak fluent German - although originally Irish. Anyway. Now have run myself ragged across the globe and have offers from EasyJet(contract 7 months), Emirates 777 (FO), Turkish (CP), Etihad (FO) short time to CU, Qatar CP on 320 with bond and CargoLux (seems best deal) as FO with 18 months time to CU. Deal apart from Cargolux are very similar - although family want to go to ME. Anyone have a real view on ABu Dhabi please?

Big problem for Ryanair now is that O'Leary seems to have started a fight with every country. Germany - staff taxes and travel taxes(and FR has never made an impact on that market), France - base closed in MRS Govt ran them out, Spain - rows in GRO, Alicante - said today may close, Canaries - said today may close, Italy - CIA row and being run out of country by staff taxes, UK - travel taxes and Ireland - well Govt just hate them. Bases have closed in MRS, SNN, (-5 aircraft), VLC - since reopened, GRO (-5 aircraft), BHD and KIR. So now where is safe?

I do not think there will be any switch to 5/3 but many of the contractors will do a runner in next 6 weeks. They are on a month off and they can escape their bond by doing a runner - just after they have a month off.

So should I stay or should I go. And what about Abu Dhabi anyone?

Damianik,

my point is that I would like to work for an outfit that people don't have to leave because of sh!t T&C, where there is a clear basing policy and where they care about fuel burn the same way as they respect their employees.
Part of this respect would be for instance not hiring DEC but upgrading your own pilots , let alone hiring F/Os like you and then giving them command training before others that have been here longer than you.
And even if what you suggest would be inevitable for keeping our airplanes flying then new hires like you should be sent to our new fantastic base of Kaunas on a 5/3 roster giving those who were here before you the priority to choose.
Clear?

By the way, don't make a fool of yourself by playing the cool guy that has "been there,done that"....by reading your posts you were only a cabin crew in Alitalia , a cadet here at FR, went to Net Jets to be made redundant after a very little time and you just started now in Turkish after flying 2 months in Air Italy last summer.
Far from being the Chuck Yeager you claim to be....

Dannyalliga,

Did i claim to be chuck yeger or even to be a good pilot? i claimed to know what means being unemployed, kicked out, redundant etc etc and being 4 months here, 4 months there.

Read my posts correctly, before judging.

And i was not only a cabin crew in Alitalia, i was a cadet pilot, flew mail and people in Alitalia for my CPL training with them (same as LH, on the PA42) and then i was offered a cabin crew position while i awaited 3 years for Alitalia to recover, then offered a job on EMB145 for Alitalia and again stopped due to AF proposal of takeover and associated doubts about future of the company...Then spent 3 years in Ryanair after taking again all my ATPL to be able to convert it to JAA (not 500 hours yet so the frozen icao one would have expired at conversion) , after that i left for Netjets before the crisis and i am still employed by netjets in part time (2.5 years now in netjets and last of seniority, so hopeless) during the part time i went to the other companies i named, and it was 5 months in Air Italy by the way:-)

So if you wanna discuss about aviation job market and the crisis, u found the right guy.

I stand where i was before, i see no point in your post. If i come back i go to Kounas, 5-3 and get upgraded because of my 3750 hours, not because of any other reason. If anybody else is ready to upgrade right now and have the hours and they go to kaunas instead of resigning to go to Emirates or BA then RYR will need NOT to hire anybody else. If instead they need, the best choice is a FO with Hours and maybe someone that knows something more about the company and 25 min turn arounds. I left for a reason, the reason is not there anymore, i would come back, because Turkish is not so greener.

Don't worry Damianik I already discuss the current situation with people who really flew thousands of hours in several airlines, who have been captains for years, who must feed a family,raise children and even put up with flying with copilots like you.....

You have already paid 30k euros for your cadetship, if you like FR so much you could ask PB to pay your way to the left seat and get BRK peanuts in return based in Kaunas on 5/3.....

Now somebody with some mature posting please.

30K a lot more !!!!


poor industry... sad .. pathetic ... :yuk:

Hi,

E4500 a month, 100hrs+ in March, out of base???

Am I the only FO in FR not getting this?? Ive not been out of base since dec 2009! I am however very good at standing by and these flights to MMM I dont need the charts no more! Could do it in my sleep!

kempus

:} ahahaahahah.

No way man, Ryanair make lots of profit with P2F cadets, this sh:mad:t company will NOT be interested in you, I am afraid. Or they'll hire you as a cadet again.

25min turnaround, that's big deal for cabin crew and dispatchers, NOT for pilots. It takes 5 minutes to program the FMS and 5 minutes to do the checks, and 2 minutes to do the departure brief.

That long!? Only if you have big fat fingers! :p

Fair points but,

apparently, they cannot find enough cadets, infact they are recalling for interview some people that initially they refused because not first pass at ATPL and other reasons. Probably they will hire non rated SFO so they pay Type rating as they use to do, but still they need upgradable FOs and soon. That is the problem, revenue from P2F i do not dispute, but a situation like the one Easyjet endured last summer may loose them 100 million.

For the 25 min turn around it was obviously a joke, but what i meant is that to upgrade someone 3 months after hiring him , the guy must either be an ex, or a captain already.

We will see.


D

Has anyone heard of any actual base visits from management yet?

Base Visits
 

NO! I don't think anyone has
:hmm:

Damianik

Ryanair are having no problem getting cadets to me their entry requirements. They are recalling nobody. It is only current crew that they are having issues retaining :E

I teach every now and then MCC in a FTO in Rome (Alitalia), and believe me, i am submerged by requests of guys wanting me to give them a sim preparation for the ryanair assessment. They were all refused last year by CAE and SAS channels. Now with the new Oxford deal, the requirements are lower perhaps, that is what i experienced.
That means they need more cadets now that they COULD find...so they are opening up the valves for more to come in, but this guys are all 2 years unemployed..more and more cadets turn to Easy (personal experience of a friend that got offered both and choosed Easy via Oxford) or to ATC training (lots of openings now) so you should focus on this lack of BIBBLICAL number of cadets, and use it for better T e C.
Those are my 2 cents

....a cadet is not a captain next summer! and summer is near.

@ ryanairpilotSTN,

Command in 18 months with Cargolux if you join them? Never heard of that! You sure you got or heard that right, because that is very unlikely as 8 to 10 years in right seat is normal procedure there, unless you have 10.000 hrs 744 maybe or some real good Luxemburg connections. :)

But anyway, good offers you got. Take it if you wanna enjoy life. If RYR had anything attractive to offer to pilots, it will disappear. Who knows the whole company might disappear because of what they do and how they run their operation. Because it seems clear their 'tricks' seem to stop working soon.

It could be Cargolux Italia, they have a different contract.

Base Milan Malpensa

Could be,
D

Biblical lack of cadets????:}:}:}:}:}
This guys is funny.....

By the way to become a Captain in FR you will need to have 2 consecutive sims to a good grade (basically 1 year) , one winter season in FR behind you, you will need to do the route to command questionnaire , you will need to do grooming flights with instructors, you will need to do CLMT flights with instructors,you will need to pass the interview with management (they will ask you why did you leave and if you intend to leave again once you have 500hours PIC), you will need to do the command upgrade groundschool, you will need to do the simulators,you will need to do the line training and after all of this if you pass you will be a restricted captain for the first 100 hours.....
All of this by next summer?Yeah right....

By the way, a newly hired DEC on the new BRK contract makes between 5 and 6k/month net, are you ready to accept it?Of course you are, you already happily paid 30k for your cadetship.....

What do you mean by NET? after tax evasion in Monaco? :}

I said there is a lack of BIBBLICAL NUMBER of cadets, not BIBBLICAL LACK of cadets....read carefully, i said that already to you once.

Today another friend of mine initially not selected for sim assessment has been called by Oxford for the FR recruitment drive. He was not selected the last 2 times, now he is magically perfect for them.

This is what i meant, there are not so many good cadets around to select from, because the output of schools lowered in the last 2 years, and there are not "major airlines" cadets unemployed anymore around to recruit like in 2006 or 07.
(AF, AZ, LH)

So now it is either taking SFO and train them as captains soon as they used to do (SFO entered with me in 2006 was captain 6 months later, just after his second sim check with the company) so do not give me the timing issue.

And also, hiring exes will guarantee that they can use their previous record as evidence.
I asked for a document to the chief pilot the other day and he actually used my former crewcode to locate my data.

So it is not behiond reality or wisdom in this situation.

Shoot me.

Damianik,

if you were as good of a pilot as you are in sharing "aeronautical wisdom" here on pprune you woudn't be an unhappy copilot working 2 months here and 2 months there between layoffs hoping for FR to give you an underpaid left hand seat job....