Boeingflyer - you are painting an incorrect picture of life at Ryanair as an FO. I have been permanently based at two bases in the 3.5 years since I joined Ryanair and have had four different base captains - none of which have ever shouted at me for doing anything wrong. You might get the odd example of it somewhere but it simply is not a common occurrence.

The Jeppesen plates are not photocopies. They are printed straight out by laser printer and I have never heard of anyone having a problem reading them or making an error because of them.

No one I have met is scared of making a mistake. If you do, just own up to it, speak to your base captain and it's fine (depending how bad your mistake is of course.) Even with the odd serious flying error which occurs, the philosophy is to speak to your base captain, if necessary a chat with the Chief Pilot, go back in the sim for an hour or two and you're released back onto the line after a line check and no one says a word about it again.

Wind check - you are also talking nonsense about cadets "stealing" jobs. If you are offered a jet job as a cadet, who in their right mind will turn it down? Being offered a job by an employer is not stealing. The market has changed. I'm not saying it's right, but it has changed and we all have to deal with it.

All those that talk about uniting and claiming its our own fault - please understand this is virtually impossible when you have a huge mixture of nationalities spread across 45 bases around Europe. Yes, we have accepted these terms and conditions but people should stop moaning. The Ts & Cs are not as good as 10, 20 or 30 years ago but in those days they were ludicrously generous. I still get paid a good salary to go to work about 120 days a year and fly great reliable aircraft with pleasant, professional colleagues who are good fun to fly with.

I see my future outside Ryanair and would like to leave for pastures new at some stage but I am not in a huge hurry as life there really is fine in the main, with the odd irritating issue of going out of base for a week or not getting the leave you want. How many airlines are perfect in that way anyway?

Boeingflue

Quote - Flying around with photo copy´s app plates, out of date plates if you forget to check the dates of the copy´s.

Never once flew with a photo copied approach plate - all are printed out if required with the jeppy updates. Checking the dates is just part of the pre departure routine, and only takes a few seconds.

As for the General Aviation comment............

Some direct entry Captains are not able to adapt to change

Typer rating: 35 000 euros
no salary during training until the line check, then 18 GBP/hours, no fix salary, OPC/LPC, medical, uniform, food at your own expense...C'MON my friend, Jet Job means slavery job with Ryanair. You would have earned and learnt more by building experience with regional companies and after a couple of years you would then have joined Ryanair or Easyjet with better conditions and salary (in a normal world).
Now, you'll get soon your 5/3 roster and then more pay cut and then a 5/2/5/3 roster but you'll be so happy to have started your ´carrier´on what you call a jetjob. Go ahead!! :ok::E:E:yuk:

Well done mate, you have just proved you have no idea what you're talking about :ok:

Wind check - you talk about a 'normal world' . This world no longer exists. As I said, times have changed. I couldn't agree more with you and you are right - that would have been the ideal process that you mentioned. But its one that doesn't exist any more. Sadly, TP pilots are no longer taken on by easyJet and Ryanair.

Your payment figures are incorrect. Cadets do receive payment during line training and the GBP18 figure is not one I have ever heard of.

At the time I took it, my type rating cost GBP 22,000 plus living expenses, so around 25,000. In my first year at Ryanair I earned GBP 46,000. In my second year GBP 52,000 and my third year GBP 55,000. My costs that you mention were uniform about GBP400 which has lasted me so far, annual medical about GBP130 (forget costs of LPC/OPC as that's just automatically taken out of gross pay so the income figures about already factor in the fact that sim training has been paid).

All in all the tea / coffee / food I have to take to work plus occasional new shirt or annual medical equate to an annual equivalent of about GBP300. Big deal. It's by saving these expenses that Ryanair thrives and grows the low cost aviation business.

I'm not saying this is as it should be or the old system didn't create better pilots - it probably did.

What I AM saying is cadets are not stealing jobs. They are job offers on the table which a lot of people find hard to turn down. I applied to dozens of TP operators and small companies when I gained my CPL/IR and didn't receive a single reply. Ryanair offered me a job and I took it and earned (for my level of experience) good money. You're right - there is no guarantee of fixed salary etc. But the figures above speak for themselves.

5/4/5/3/5/2 - whatever the roster - again you cannot argue with the facts. I worked 111 days two years ago and about 120 days last year.

Times have changed my friend and we can't turn back the clock.

Anyways... I wish you good luck with your future 5/3 roster that MOL will soon put straight in your open arse :ok: :E

You need to make some effort to compensate the fuel cost ;)

You must have an awful amount of sickdays, or are you leaving out the standby's?:ok:

I am leaving out the standbys (of which of course over the winters there were many) which were spent at home or at the gym or having coffees with friends or playing golf etc etc - hardly a difficult life.

I do, however, understand being on standby if you happen to be based far from home is not a good situation.

A major criticism I have of Ryanair is that the basing policy needs to be clear rather than this random chance of getting your base of preference which is wholly unsatisfactory.

Ryanair are far far far from perfect. But posting on here accusing cadets of stealing jobs and inaccurate postings about base captains shouting at FOs are just nonsense so I came on here to offer a more balanced view.

FR1A - Boeingflue, Such kind of speach/Language is why i left FR. You are a god example of how foke´s are treating other people in a company = FR

Tell me, what is the difference between photo copy´s and laser print. As far as i now, laser print is a pour quality than photo copy´s - I can´t see the difference. And also only one copy for the flightdeck, There is 2 pilot´s in a flightdeck so far - Until MOL can change it´

FR1A - Capt who cant adapt the change..
I had no problem at all, but i have heard some coulden´t. And i can understand why it´s so hard for some. FR SOP is so detailed, if you put a wrong Fix ring of 4 or 5 NM even 10NM you will get blaimed for it on a linecheck. If a young FO Forget´s his Fix ring, he don´t know when to select the Flap or even gear.
You see, young cadets learning by memory is much easyer when thay are young. Older guy´s like me that have been flying over 20 years has a lot of experince. But when thing´s are not going the direction you planned as FR pilot, and the only experince - You are lost and do a lot of mistakes.
Flying an visual approach and a FR pilot is lost if LNAV is gone.
FR are scared of pilot´s been pilot´s. Thay use Management by fear through the whole operation - And that´s why i left.. I could tell many FR stories but i gues many of them has been covered. Never than less, im not proud to tell expression´s, it´s more sad that a big company can have a so unprofessional operation and leders. And last, there is a reason why everybody in FR whant´s to leave - If thay could..

Your horrible salary and conditions are explained on ppjn, if you dont agree, you'd better give us your correct figures, just to give us a laugh.
Ryanair hires cadets not to make Oxford P2F clients happy, but just because they are worth SH:mad:T and because they will have absolutely nothing to say. You take the crap or you leave it, that's how the rules are at Ryanair.


We are thousands thousands of pilots who really enjoy to see the Ryanair and Easyjet poo sinking from bad to worse, once again, this is what you deserve!!!! :ok:

Wind Check,

I forgot we were talking to the T+C's expert?:ugh:

If a current Ryanair pilot tells you the wages then guess what, thats what the wages are!!!

N

Windcheck
 

1. Type rating 35000 -- WRONG. (not anymore)

2. Not paid during line training-- WRONG ( Cadets fly between 90 to 100 hours per month while line training and earn in the region of 2800 to 3000)

3. Paid 18 pounds per hour after line training. --- WRONG



Yet another misinformed Bull:mad:er let loose on PPRuNe. You base your facts on ppjn?

Did you learn to fly on Wikipedia? Or are we reading posts from a flightsim enthusiast with a really nice camera?

Perhaps it is time to ask for our own sub-forum at pprune. In that way we can seriously discuss our situations without having to deal with this constant stream of insulting, ill-informed frustrated "colleagues".

The behaviour of certain individuals with regards to their peers is just appalling and completely unjustifiable. By coming onto these threads and throwing a tantrum you're only embarrassing yourself.

All of us here are trying to make the best out of a dire situation and if possible help one-another out by staying informed and sharing knowledge. If you can't contribute positively, remain silent.

Boeing Pilot ..........I'm not leaving = so not quite everybody whats to leave is it!!!!! ... best roster, best money, best stability,, best job..why would I want to leave.. sand I'm afraid doesn't interest me in the slightest. Probaly some of the best pilots in the industry, some better than others , some worse,

Reason for base visits
 

I have a feeling that the base visits will be to inform everyone that ALL bases will be 5/3 during the summer. Its already happened to a few who are in the 'old' bases.

from pilot999

But as you said in the "What is your take home pay at the end of the month thread" on PPRune back in Feb :-

Your rather wild claim didn't go unnoticed either :-

You also say you are an ordinary line pilot, my basic last month was around £3500, how come yours is £5900 ?!!

Something doesn't quite add up does it ? .....



:O

Try getting your tax code correct is a starting point. also my Tea bags cost in the region of pence rather than pounds. And indeed we must be working for another Airline. Without looking too hard I can usually find 40/50 may be more of white plastic bags, Normally a polite "Can I have a rubbish bag" to the crew will produce one with a few seconds to minutes depending how busy they are. Again I have never felt the urge to take in my own bag, why would I???????????

Anagrams of REPA

1) RAPE what FR has done to the cadets and what is happening to the industry as a whole!!!!

2) REAP what you sow, you bent over and paid for your TR so accept the T&C's that you have brought upon yourself!!!

3) PARE, FR have done to T&C's because pilots have let them!!!

4) PEAR shaped, the way a lot of peoples careers have gone as an FR cadet!!!!

Anyway guys, I urge you guys to accept whatever the management says on the base tours as it means I get to fly cheap. I'm used to flying cheap on ryanair now, I don't think I could face paying a lot to fly again :)

Smith

I think you need to check what the definition of RAPE is ,, I'll leave that you for you to do, I do however believe 100% that no one at Ryanair has fallen into the rape catergory. May as well check at the same time what Verbal vomit Is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A Ha Ha Ha Ha :)

Do we even know if these visits are taking place?? Usually such things are well advertised on Crewdock and the general pilot population rather than the 0.2% that populate PPRUNE are well informed of such events.
Also if the 4 year agreement is up for renewal (which it can't be - it's only half way through the last "amendment"), again, there is a lot of wrangling going on. So far - heard zip from anyone in the real World.
They've gotta do something though, I'm not aware of anyone in my immediate peer group of command ready F/Os (in most cases been ready for over a year) who aren't at the very least filling out applications - most have several interviews lined up.:uhoh:

Simple answer is that their are no Base visits. and hasn't been. prove me otherwise. but I know 5/4 is here for summer and so on.

Guys, I think its better to start using REPAs forums more to allow a better discussion flow. The threads on PPrune always seem to get side tracked by idiots who know very little about this industry.

Perhaps now is the time for union recognition?

Can they afford to freeze upgrades with the impending summer schedule and resignations? I for one am very interested in the next 12 months as to what is going to happen with so many things!

LCC :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

only crap.

SUPERCED

Thanks for the positive input to the thread :mad:

-5/3 two hours flight time from home in the case of a direct flight, otherwise a stopover makes it a 1/2 day trip......
-900 hours/year equal to a salary of 5500-6000€/month net after tax (captain) and I still have to pay pension,loss of licence,healthcare,medical,car park,HOTAC,ID,uniform,food,water.....
-stability for those who are F/Os on 5/4 and get upgraded to see themselves thrown in a 5/3 base with a 10% paycut and annual leave taken away from them or allocated randomly here and there....
-the best job doesn't exist but this is far from being in the top 10....
-why leave?Well ask those 18 ONLY who resigned so far as per PB memo.....:}:}:}


Now it would be nice to get back on topic and exchange some info regarding these base visits.
Checked on REPA but not much there apart from a few good ideas about ways of spreading information.

What some Ryanair pilots are experiencing here,Learning the hard way is the true face of Capatilist greed.The company can well afford to treat us better in fact a lot better but its policy of attacking the workforce and keeping us subdued has prevaled.
Some contracts are better in some places because certain bases didnt lie down.

It all comes down to the same thing here we need a union !
It is possible but we need everybodys input even if its just to join show your support and nothing else its a start.
Ring your old friends in the company get them involved actively talk about this issue with your colleagues and encourage dissent from management.
And if your still not convinced ask yourself how many times you have sat on an airplane with pax been completly responsible and not being payed for what your doing?
'The great only appear great because we are on our knees let us arise '

Pilot999
How can you say we don't need a union. Wake up man:rolleyes:

In
 

I've been watching this and the other FR threads evolve on this forum, and I too am interested in

Being a member of unions in previous companies I can see how valuble they are, in all sorts of affairs. My experience of FR as so far yielded several opportunities where I wished there was someone I could speak to and take some advice. Added to that I see the money I earn spent more and more on hotac, traveling, uniform, equipment, sim etc etc. I would like this to stop, the cost of living is on the up, and money coming in is being more and more thinly spread. Living in two places (mainland EU base) at the same time doesn't help either. We all know all about these issues.

What I want to know is how does one (or many) go from this sorry state of affairs to then create bargaining power in the form of a union? What are the logical steps, or milestones that have to be reached so that a body should be recognized by the management?

Also how can this be achieved under the dictatorship we have at he moment, where everyone, admittedly myself too, is desperate for work and scared !!!!!less of popping up on their problematic pilot radar? I, like 90%of the others I fly with, love my job, have great respect for most of FR, but don't want to take it in the neck any longer.

Happy flighting.

I think the logical step would be to try and get as many people as possible to join REPA. REPA, or a nominated union of our choice, could then take the fight to management . I will be joining REPA tomorrow.I think we owe it to ourselves to fight for better T&C's.

Just got back from a dinner with my FR buddy and 3 of the many things (mostly negative) he told me just struck me!
He said there are Captains, both directly employed by FR or by a contracting agency, who make the same or even less than some F/Os who have an older and better contract with an agency.:confused::confused::confused:
He told the story of some crews whose base got either closed altogether or heavily reduced in size and who had a few days to move to other bases in a different country with no assistance nor support whatsoever from the company:yuk::yuk::yuk:
He mentioned flying with a guy who after finishing his line training was given a base in the Canary Islands and had 4 days off before reporting for work there, the poor guy had to ship his car by ferry for 1500€ but that would take a couple of weeks so he had to rent a car in the meanwhile and of course get a hotel and start looking for apartments for which he would have needed a couple of months deposit...the guy was right after his self sponsored training and practically broke and pretty desperate:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Then I read the propaganda of people like pilot999 and I can only laugh; but I can easily see lots of you have no reason for laughing at all.

I wanna tell one thing. I left FR for a fractional operator and since the crisis started we had many problems as every company. Last year we decided to form an association with a forum (just like Repa) , 70% of the pilots (total 1100) joined this association, now we are in the final stage of UNION recognition under UK law!!

I am talking about something that REPA is trying to do for ages!!
Our management is not happy and is trying to use some if not all of MOL tecniques to stop us but..guess what? WE DID NOT ...and in 30 days from now we will be a UNION with power to discuss.

It is EASY guys if you get 51% of the pilot to join REPA and vote YES...it is possible....51% will vote yes if they see why they are doing it.
DO NOT BE SCARED, they cannot fire anybody, they need you MORE than you need FR, believe me!
they need all the men they can find to fly those 737 next summer, NOW IS THE TIME!!!


DO IT, for all of us!
D

5/3 not going to happen and never was going to happen - according to PB.

But no doubt that won't stop the uninformed drivel on this thread. Why are so many people from outside Ryanair reading and commenting on this thread? Why does it bother you so much? My advice is just worry about your own lives...

Because all the appaulling business practices taking place in FR reflect somehow on the industry as a whole...

Good points made Damianik about forming a union

An inhouse union or association carries more weight than third party representation.

Board of Directors nor shareholders want to see their assets sitting on the ground collecting dust and earning no income while making monthly lease payments.

With the numerous bases about Europe and keeping the masses divided, there is very little likelihood of a union or association being established with great success.

Spoke to a friend of mine who is a Ryanairster who was based in GRO. He has been re-assigned to the Barcelona base after recently purchasing an apartment. Now he has to try to sell his apartment in this down market, and commute to Barcelona:mad:. Try selling property in this market:{.

Good luck to all at FR.

D.O... Don't assume that some posters are not current or former FR crews... after all, you know what they say when you ASS U ME:= .

D O Guerrero,

are you really so short sighted not to realize that the ryanair way of doing things might contaminate the whole indudtry as well?

You seem to trust PB so tell us do you really think only 18 pilots left?Wasn't the DEC program being suspended because they only wanted internal upgrades?
Since that memo resignations have reached that number per week and if you look at the RYR website the DEC program is back.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

The FACTS are that T&C's have been eroded during the past few years despite huge profits made by the company year after year.

Pilot 999
 

Would love to see your tax code to achieve £5900 net a month when my net is £3500!! joining at the same time.You are either defrauding the Revenue or you are liar!

I didn't assume anything. Large parts of this thread IS total rubbish written by people who don't know what they are talking about. You might think that applies to me. Fair enough. I'm not going to be losing any sleep over it. I like my job.
Yes, there are shortcomings and no it isn't perfect, but it could be a lot worse. The problem is, that people from outside Ryanair post ignorant comments (EG cadets getting paid £1 an hour or whatever), which is not a reflection of life at Ryanair and is not helpful. The point is that the majority of flightdeck personnel at Ryanair are reasonably happy and glad to have a job. The minority drip all over PPRUNE about it.
So the "appauling" business practices reflect on the business as a whole? Agreed. But I don't see anyone else being prepared to do anything about it. Face it - there is nothing anyone can or will do about it. BALPA are totally disinterested as are their membership outside Ryanair. If it doesn't affect BA, they don't want to know. So moaning about it here is going to achieve the square root of nothing - if you want to help, write to your union or your MP. I've taken a lot of action in this regard - can you all say the same?

BRS going 5-3 from April. Just appeared on roster.