Yes but what about non type rated experienced pilots? Apart from pay to fly and cadets however can you change type? Or get out of the turboprop swamp? Where do you get the magic 500hrs on type..? All questions that frustrate experienced pilots that are attempting to climb a career ladder, where the steps have been removed. Monarch used to require 2500 turbine, that disappeared.

You have to wait until all the type rated pilots have been employed.

It's tough for the airlines as well as for pilots looking for a better job. Airlines are not charities and if there are type rated people out there like the ex tcx and astreus why would an airline spend £20k type rating somebody.

Be patient. Things will get better and non type rated people will get employed.

fmgc - if you look at Jet2 they are doing just that - getting the right people they want , at the bases that they want - and are taking on ordinary cadets ( non Captains Taking Cash) , ground staff and turboprop people , and are to be highly commended for doing this . Granted , its only the experienced turboprop lot that are getting a good deal re £ + the rating , but as an airline they are certainly not waiting until all the type rated pilots have been employed - its quite a bold opening statement from you if i may say so !
Until recently MON would have done the same and got the right person in , now they're so skint after yet another family bailout , its just having the appropriate rating that gets you to the interview table - so "balanced approach" to recruitment ? , no way , not since the last Flybe fleecing about 5 years ago!

Well, it must be very few experienced and rated pilots since the application was not open for all!

No, fmgc is correct. For many years now it has been a combination of cadets from an extremely good tried and trusted source, together with a roughly equal mix of experienced pilots.

As you would expect, cadet entry pilots place heavy demands on the number of training tracks that are available. Experienced pilots less so, and experienced type rated pilots, very few.

I am not sure where you get the idea that the vacancies available are "not open to all"? The fleet office is awash with applications, and more arrive with every mail delivery. It is always a case of sending in a current CV, and as so often in life, it is sometimes simply a case of timing.

So I am afraid you are wrong on both counts.

Its a shame though that if you join type rated you're still fully bonded ! :rolleyes:
Jet 2 seem to have signed up to and set off down the road of the Ryanair 'revenue raising staff shafting' philosophy. How many grand do they charge cabin crew for the training course ?!
Good for them for not using CTC for cadtes even if they have another way of their own for shafting young keen wannabes.
Personally, I'd be a bit reluctant to commend Jet 2 for anything else about their employment affairs.

At least Mon are nothing like that, at least not yet anyway, but I'm sure in the fullness of time :\

If anything Monarch are out to HELP the guys who have just lost their jobs prior to Christmas

The current state of play at MON is that they are currently recruiting a small number of B757 rated pilots and there is a requirement for up to 30+ A320 pilots.
The FBW pilots will probably be 50/50 split of CTC cadets and experienced pilots.
As with any airline they will take advantage of the market conditions and look to source these from TCX /AEU if those pilots wish to come to MON. In addition even with the 9/3 contract on offer , MON's conditons are still attractive to EZY flex crew. If these sources dry up then they will turn -as before- to the non type rated pilots, but with a limited training resource it makes more sense to utilise type rated pilots if they are available and willing to join.

Why have Monarch got limited training resources? They're a TRTO after all. Non type rated pilots are doomed, face it. CTC are taking over the world and as long as someone else is paying the training the airlines will NEVER go down the route of recruiting non type rated, no matter how desperate they are. This cancer will never go away.

Is there a formal pilot recruitment process at MON, or just a CV to the chief pilot/fleet cpt?

I was talking about what Monarch is taking of pilots this year since you can find the following on the website:

It is very hard to see that they are open for applications, but I guess that one should just ignore that and send an application via mail instead.

For the same reason that Oxford university (another training organisation) has limited vacancies each year. There are many other demands on an airline than simply type rating new applicants. The number of training captains available, simulator slot availability, aircraft availability, safety pilot provision. This is just a part of the constituents used to make up available training tracks. Those tracks then have to be allocated to internal fleet changes, promotions, combinations of the former. Add to that the intake of new cadets which places a heavy demand on those tracks, together with the vast number of routine LPC/OPC renewals, Category C training and checking etc.

The economics of how you match supply to demand doesn't allow for spare capacity that would simply be uneconomic outside of the peak (winter) recruitment and training season.

For an airline taking on experienced type rated people, the demand on the training tracks should be minimal. With cadets, the demand on those tracks is very high, but is offset by other economic benefits. Obviously in the middle (non type rated but otherwise experienced pilots) it is a very squeezed market. As fmgc has said, that may eventually change, but it is a fact of life in the current marketplace.

As far as Jet 2 are concerned they will probably have to type rate people as there is not a load of type rated classic 737 people on the market.

Are you telling me that if a type rated 757 ex Astreus applies that they won't look at them?

What do Jet2 charge for type rating somebody?

If an airline decides to spend money on type rating somebody when there is just as good a type rated pilot on the market then they are fiscally inept!

So are Mon. Just that at the moment they are type rated.

I am lower hour'd / less experienced but flying for a small AOC, its frustrating CTC / OAA get in the way of people like myself or instructors being able to apply directly for Monarch or EZY.

The CAA should start looking into those training schools relationships with some airlines and self employed contractor model. Its all about money and business between those training schools and the airlines, stopping others who trained else where or people with proper experience on type. The MPL will affect those experienced folk too.

To be fair, airlines like mon, tcx etc have never taken flying instructors.

It's always been cadets or pilots with 15t+ experience.

If you gain employment mith MON as an experienced B757/A320 FO do you still have to take the 9/3 contract?
If so how long do you have to be on it before being offered 100% 12 month contract??

:confused:

The 9/3 contract applies to all new pilots joining Monarch. 9/3 contract is restricted to one pilot for each aircraft in the fleet. i.e there are 30 9/3 contracts at present.
As each pilot over the 30 join one moves onto a full time contract. (but only once a year)
Hope that helps

fmgc wrote:

"To be fair, airlines like mon, tcx etc have never taken flying instructors.

It's always been cadets or pilots with 15t+ experience."




Not true......I was an instructor with 4500ish hrs when I joined in the late 80's..............still here now...........

Yes but that was when the was a genuine pilot shortage!