To all you new cadets at ryan
 

Hello, Got a couple of questions stuck in my head and I hope you can help me sort a few things out..

Soon on my way of finishing IR ME+CPL+MCC and when done, Im thinking about joining ryan.

Anyway,

I've been lucky enough to get by all courses with minimum loans.
In the end I will owe the bank about 15,000EUR.
Ok, lets say I got accepted into ryan.
Now I have to decide if I want to pay 30,000 EUR to get in.
The problem, Since I already got a loan of 15,000 EUR (with help of my parents) The bank probably won't give me another loan.
So, Is there a way that Ryan will help me get in contact with a bank who will lend me money?
How did you guys come up with the money?

How did you survive during the line training? As I see it, Ryan will send you around on different bases to get you checked as quickly as possible.
That means, hotel costs, food, transportation to/from the airport, travel cost between bases etc..
And how is it after line training?
You have to find an apartment, still pay food etc..
So all I wanna know is, How did you guys make it thru the first couple of months?

767 says it all...........you get nothing.......you pay everything......

http://www.dochara.com/ireland/wp-co.../12/famine.jpg
No-it's not Ryanair pilots begging in Baile Atha Cliath.

That's the Famine Memorial in Dublin which commemorates the Great Famine of 1846-1850.
But there is hope. A lot of Protestant charities ran soup kitchens in those days. I don't know why the RCs didn't-probably something to do with transubstantiation.
Anyway, the Prots would give an RC soup and bread if he converted to Prtoestantism. So if you are a Protenstant, tell them at the interview, it might work to your advantage.

Nariman
 

Why don`t you ask your parents to put their house up for sale?, maybe that will cover the cost of becoming a Ryanair pilot?

You can`t seriously expect Ryanair to pay you for playing with a 737 ?
All hobbies cost, you just happened to choose a very expensive one.:rolleyes:

Before this descends into the usual drivel - It is very difficult, short of having saved enough beforehand to manage or borrowing from the bank/relatives if these are options depending on you individual circumstances. Unfortunately I've never heard of Ryanair/CAE or SAA having any involvement in helping any find the funds. The line training usually takes place at one base only after that when you're line checked the estimate is about 80% flying from home base and 20% away (varies from base to base), while away from home base you are payed an extra 20 euro/block hour which usually covers the accommodation/transport and few beers comfortably. Of course you first need to raise the requisite funds for the TR, which other than the above I can't offer much advice other than possible the HSBC Professional Studies loan, not a brilliant deal... but a deal.

Best of luck.

Hm..
Was my thread that unclear?
I didn't think that ryan would pay for anything.

Let me straigthen it out.
I am wondering how you (as in you who got accepted into ryan) made it through the line training, in terms of money.
Did your parents support you? You were rich even after flight traingin?
You lived on the streets while doing the type etc?

Tell me your story plz :}

Nariman
 

Was my thread that unclear?
I didn't think that ryan would pay for anything.

Your thread was not unclear at all, I was beeing ironic, and with the follow up post you made my point exactly.

Use the search function on this site, and you will find a lot of threads and posts by other "Space cadets" willing to pay for the glorius rides in the right seat of a jet.

Ill swap you my Licence with 1500+ Boeing on it for your 80K
You just need to put on some weight I recon and shave your head and you will be all set,, maybe a few goes on Microsoft Flight sim while reading the SOP's and no one will know the difference

then ill take your 80K have a long holiday where the beer is cold and the women warm and come back to do something else.

ZTH

nariman,
¿Don't you have any respect for yourself?

Guys like you have, are and will be screwing the pilot carrier.

Stay away, please.

Nariman,

just one quick idea. Have you any gold? Has your Mum any rings or other items?

If so, try www.cashmygold.com or pop into any Ramsdens on any UK High Street. It must be credible as that 'old bird' Anne Diamond is fronting their adverts in the breaks during 'Jez Kyle!'

'Bobby George' did exactly that and now is flying for Ryan Air. I saw him at Stansted!

BN

Yet another idea from the Big Number stable.

How about catching some 'free money' by enrolling in a few TV Game Shows?

I spotted some 'fat Noddy' bouncing over foam lolly pops into a swimming pool and being cheered on by the 'short axse' that hosts Top Gear. (You know the one that ploughed his car in.)

Seemingly you can win the requisite £30 k, pay your O'Pikey Dowry, and amuse my kids all in a oner! Result.

Why not rent your Mums spare rooms out.

I understand that a "special friend" of Somerset MP David Laws did exactly that to fund his ascent into Ryan Air.

Not only did he gain the required funds but also enjoyed some additional benefits into the bargain!

And finally.....

Sarah Fergurson found a novel way to raise her Ryan Air Type Rating Money by selling introductions to her Ex Husband.

All was going well until she spotted the 'Asda' Labels on the Tea Cloths and News of the World note paper.

Assuming that you too have direct access to upper echelons of the Royal family this might prove a viable option. Although beware the angry Ex Mother in Law!! Corgi's have a nsaty nip in their bite.

If all else fails appear on US Giant 'Oprah' and plead an alcohol fuelled moment of foolishness. Works every time.

Good Night from a Down Route bored BN

Ahaaha.. You guys are so funny!

Out of 14 replies I found one that partly aswered my questions.
Thanks BurnDownTheRumormill!

Why don't you buy some vaseline and bend over it will cover the cost and line training at the same time.:8

:8 Thank you all for the many hilarious comments!

They have made me chuckle while I sit here unable to sleep, feeling cold (10 C in June, here in Helvetia)

and I am so pleased that I am nearing the end of my piloting career, rather than being at the beginning of it!

Carry on

I'm glad you appreciate my scribble; it's far more important to keep the 'Real' Troops amused than answer the pointless questions of some 'noodle' with more money than sense.

I'm supposed to be doin the Jepps but can't be bothered. Bit of a lack of motivation this early.

Oh the Glamour of it all
 

This should feature as the main selling point in - 'So you want to be a pilot?' :ok:

yeah, doing jepp amendments is up there in the thrill factor. :zzz:

Still, a lot better than sorting out the toilet after some spoilt princess took a dump and failed to find the button marked "toilet". That really made my day. :\ I suppose you do have to take the rough with the smooth....

How to raise the money?
2 English 4 letter words.
"work" and "save". ;)

Why do you want to fly for Ryan if you dont belong to the privileged? Why dont you apply for a company who gives you the TR and pays you a salary on top? some who provides you with uniform and even coffee is for free?! :confused:

TOFFAIR
 

Because those companies don't exist anymore. That's why the "noodles" are paying up for the FR ride.:\

THINK
 

if you only get seemingly stupid replies to a question - maybe your question was .... ?

You are what you eat.
So must have been eating noodles...

Oh but stansdead they do. But...shock horror, gasp, how awful, simply dreadful, you might have to fly something with those propellery thingies on the front!

And you know what? Some people are just way above that aren't they? Couldn't possibly bring myself down to fly such meagre equipment.

Pathetic.

13thstage, why do you consider flying a turbo prop to be a hobby? That is rather a ridiculous statement.

The Q400 pilots at Flybe, I was one once, are as committed and as professional as any other pilot I know and certainly treat their job as more than a hobby.

Really, what is the difference? It is the same job with the same goals flying in the same airspace to similar destinations as anybody else who flies in Europe.

Ok they don't get paid as much as you lot at Ryanair but they haven't shelled out the tens of thousands of pounds that you need to pay Ryanair to employ you (excuse me, give you a crappy contract). In fact they haven't paid for anything.

Have you even looked at the Fybe payscale?

Chesty Morgan
 

I hope you weren't calling me pathetic.

I wouldn't know about TP operators. I was fortunate enough to never fly a TP.

Additionally, I have never paid for a rating.

I am an A320 Captain and in my eyes, there are few jobs that pay for your rating anymore.

Discuss.

stansdead, no I wasn't calling you pathetic. That was aimed at the "I wanna fly a jet" mob.

There is nothing unfortunate about flying a turboprop. It's an airliner and you fly it from one airport to another. Just like an Airbus. It doesn't matter in the slightest what form of propulsion it uses.

The problem is that the few jobs that are out , available to newbies, where you don't have to pay for everything are more than likely on a turboprop. So why are people paying to fly a jet?

13thstage, apologies for misinterpreting your post. And I agree that the potential money at Ryanair is better but there is nothing wrong with working your way up like we used to. It all adds to your experience bag dunnit?!

I think that the simple answer is that it is now the only way in. Those of us who took what was well meaning and sage advice some years ago and got a job flying turboprop aircraft, now find that our peers who ignored the advice and paid for the rating with eg Ryanair, now earn four times our salaries as captains at Ryanair, or have moved on to the Middle East and enjoy excellent terms and conditions there. Meanwhile we are locked into our turboprops (and low salaries - with few smaller operators offering a favourable lifestyle and roster) and jet operators simply are not interested in our experience and hours.

Next time I'll go with my gut rather than take too much advice in future. Basing my decisions on purely financial analysis, I was wrong wrong wrong. What would have been, some nine years ago or so, a £20,000 investment for a rating with FR would have paid off many times over by now. I watched my training colleagues invest this and their salaries quickly became in the order of £40,000 pa whereas I struggled to earn £12,000 flying piston engined aircraft. When I finally got a turboprop job my salary was under £20,000 (I was more than happy at the time of course!) whilst my former training colleagues were earning towards £50,000. As captain one of them now earns over £90,000, whereas I get £25,000 with no sign of captaincy on the horizon. Now I know money isn't everything, far from it, but who thinks I made the right decision now? I don't.

This is one of the most sobering things I have read in a long time. I honestly don’t know whether to vomit or cry. The only feeling I can liken it to is finding out there is an asteroid heading towards earth and there's nothing we can do.

After 12 years in Australian aviation I've seen a lot of things slowly change, the most recent being the introduction of the Jetstar Cadet scheme. I knew that this was a lead in to the way thing were done in the UK but I had no idea it was this bad.

I guess I should treat the next few years as if they were my last, because it sure seems they will be. Thank you sell outs!

Hey losers .you should have joined the same time as me 10 years ago. I'm on a much better deal,:) paid for by you guys heheheheehee:) any chance you can pay my tax as well:ok:

this thread succinctly emphasizes why the profession is down the sh!tter..

.. snorting, guffawing and sanctimony at those looking to establish a professional life career in this industry and ignoring the harsh industry realities.

Professional ?

This thread leaves me shaking my head at the 'professionalism' in this industry.

Well done guys. While you snort and guffaw with your sanctimony, you are as equally as culpable those you decry.

grow a pair.

:mad:

Batman
 

The current harsh industry reality, is by large created by ourselves, and our willingness to do anything to get ahead.

Many years ago the first, bright, newly licenced pilot, came up with the idea of paying for a relevant type-rating, to get ahead in the competition for a particular job. Leaving those whith a couple of thousand hours instructing, cropdusting, or flying mail in a piston twin at night, in the dust.
Soon, his classmates, and those coming after, saw his genious, and did the same thing.

The employers, of course, greeted this new development with open arms, saving money on training.

Further down the line, "employers", and training facilities realized that some people will stop at nothing, in the pursuit of getting into the right seat of a jet. They came up with an ever increasing number of ideas on how to make money on these people, soon you had to pay for: type-rating, linetraining, hotac, transportation, travel to base(changing at will), uniform, id card, sim-check, FC upgrade and more.
Creating todays harsh industry reality.

I am sure it will not stop here, as money is everything, talent, aptitude, and selection is nothing.

I am clueless on what to do about this, the only hope beeing that someone finally got up and said "No, this, I am not willing to accept". I fear that in the future, intelligent, pragmatic young peolpe will not concider flying a "carreer", as it is, in my opinion, not a profession anymore, but as I earlier stated,: "a rather expensive hobby", for noodleheads.

G.S. Willy,

Thank you for the history lesson. I can assure you i dont need it thank you.

Your assertion that it was a newly licensed pilot somewhere in the world started the P2F trend is frankly utter rubbish. Meanwhile you negate to consider contributing factors. Here's a tip, read Mike Hammer's post above. Have a think about it. Then read it again. Then, have another think about it.

Then re-read the snorting, guffawing and sanctimony dripping posts in this thread, then have another think.

Then think about professional behaviour, attitude and mindsets. Then re-read this thread again.

With the level of disdain dsiplayed for people starting out in this industry, ie cadets, by those currently established in this industry, (see this thread) it's patently obvious that there is neither solidarity, nor respect for those at lower levels.

Frankly, who is more dedicated to a life career in the industry, the person who borrows and pays for it out of their own pocket, or the person that didnt put their hand in their pocket and had it all paid for them, just becuase in a different time, with different economics the operator picked up the tab?

You think people out there WANT to have to pay for a TR ? If they had a choice to pay for a TR themselves, or let the operator pick up the tab they would choose to pay for it themselves ?

The days of a paid TR and a 2 year bond are over, it's unlikely they will be back. that is a harsh reality.

I am not.

Thank you for your continual bold emphasis of my wording harsh industry reality, however, what you are intimating by that, frankly I have no idea, nor care.

It is and it isnt.

Help us Batman
 

How stupid of me, trying to teach history to the protecktor of Gotham city.

Since you are not clueless on how to change the dire situaton the business is in, maybe you could show us the way out of this?

Please use your superiour intelligence, strenght, courage and vast experience to crush the evil forces trying to destroy us, we are depending on you :eek:

This wins the sense of perspective award hands down.

G.S. Willy,

some of us are actually putting effort and energy into improvements in the industry, rather than just harping on about it.

you expect a childish post like that to get a serious response in addressing the problems. Are you an idiot or do you just have one writing your posts for you ?

Over and out.

13th stage.

a fair and valid point and that does need to be considered and accounted for in the situation.

Caudillo,

indeed.

Batman
 

Can you please tell us what effort and energy you are putting in to improving this industry?
Apart from beeing member of Ifalpa, and my local union, I would really like to know what else can be done.

rgrds: Obviously ignorant and stupid, and then some

To all you guys ranting on about flying turboprops, name a couple of turboprop outfits who are hiring low hour pilots right now? Ive applied to many and didnt even get an email back so why arent guys flying TP's? Because non of them are hiring thats why! Id say 99% of low hour guys would take a TP or piston job if they could get them but there are none, yes there will always be the few who only want to fly jets but these are a very small minority.

The other thing that people fail to recognise in this interminable argument (and I accept fully that some very experienced operators - notably Flintstone, with whom I have locked horns on this many times! - disagree) is that the cost of the base CPL/ME/IR now means that one simply can not take the jobs that Mikehammer (I think it was) alludes to. £12k a year simply doesn't even begin to pay the loan repayments (or as with those like me who didn't take a loan, provide a return on investment).

What's killing this industry is the pincer movement of ever increasing cost of entry and ever decreasing Ts&Cs.

I'm sure that 90% of all newly qualified pilots don't necessarily want to move straight to MRJT operations for any other reason than the financials.

You want to change it, make it a FCL that for Jet operations you must have 500 hours turboprop and for Turboprop ops, you must have 500 ME.
But of course, that could never happen....