Easyjet Hold Pool
 

I'm aware that there have been numerous threads regarding the EasyJet Hold pool for DEP's. I have been sitting in the 'Pool' for nearly 20 months, and I am aware that the likely hood of being called by Ezy is nil due to the CTC/OAT/Parc guys queing up to P2F.

Have any of the you guys in the Hold pool been contacted by Ezy to let you know what is happening? My expiry date [2 years] comes to an end in the summer, but I haven't heard anything.

Assuming, looking at the other threads, that P2F is the only way that airlines like Ezy/Ryr etc, will be recruiting pilots in the future?

Any feedback from the (ex)hold pool people would be appreciated. By the way I don't want to add fuel to the P2F fire! I can see that is going on elsewhere. Thanks.:ok:

Si Jet

They've taken on some ex bmi scarebus pilots on their flexicrew contracts recently, experienced crews with current TRs and only paying them by the hour. Yet another way for an airline to reduce T&C's.

Si Jet - whilst I sympathise with your situation, it is not the case that all CTC/OAT/Parc guys are paying to fly. It is only a relatively small percentage in that position.

Have you had any luck in contacting CTC or Parc about the recruitment for the current hourly contracts? Not the full time position you were hoping for/promised, but it might be your best chance of securing a permanent contract at a later date if you can get your foot in the door.

Thanks guys for your replies. FLR I appreciate that not all the CTC/OAT pilots are P2F, and thanks for clarifying that for me. I will have a chat with Parc and see what they say. I some how don't see Easyjet returning to the TRSS scheme that I and many others were meant to be on./

Thanks again for all your replies though!

Cheers,

Si Jet.

Actually no CTC/OAT cadets are P2F. Easy has not run a P2F scheme since 2008.

Epsilon - it depends how you define P2F!!! I'd say the recent OAA guys pretty much were.

I'll batten down the hatches and take the flack. I maybe one of these ex bmi, parc SFOs who have recently joined easy on a flexi-contract this summer with a permanent position from November. I am certainly not paying to fly in fact quite the opposite. My next roster I have 90+ hours at £67 per hour paid to me, with a self employed tax of at least 75% retention of salary. I don't have a calculator but that isn't that bad as long as the rest of the summer is like that. I don't like this deal as it has no solid guarantees that a permanent position brings, but this keeps a roof over my head whilst I examine all options open to me.

I have to say that in this day and age having a full ATPL with a few thousand hours on type and the right contacts in the industy does open doors slightly, but this option was the only one available to me and times have changed since 20 months ago i am sorry to say. Hopefully the good old days of sponsorship and airlines employing people direct and paying for ratings as bmi did for me will return however with last weeks events this may have put that back by 6 months.

Sorry if this pisses some people off but thats the way it is I'm afraid.

Does anyone know if Easyjet will be employing 737 drivers through Parc/CTC? I believe that Newcastle and Belfast are still Boeing bases.
I must say that I agree with SinBin. Take what you can to keep current and hopefully better times are around the corner for all.

I think all those currently knocking easyJet, and there are no shortage of them, would do well to read SinBin's post. He is one of those Parc 'losers' who were taken on under 'dire' conditions. He now has the promise of a full time contract with easyJet - in the current climate that is not bad. He will not be on a brilliant deal, but it will be a whole lot better than working for Vietnam Airlines or similar.

Lubeoil - Both Belfast and Newcastle are now Airbus bases and the last of the Belfast pilots are now going through the training system from the 737 to the Airbus as we speak. I cannot give an exact figure but I believe we now only have around 6 737s left - all based in Luton. Hope that helps.

Over the years I have read your posts NSF and respected them fully, even when I have wondered what on earth is going on at EZY. They are always rational, coherent and most of all fair.
BUT
makes you sound like an apologist for a very poor offering from your employers. I can't be bothered looking through your past posts and won't insult you by doing so. However I'm sure in the past you have proffered the view that hourly paid contracts are a piss take, especially for type rated, experienced guys. A view I agree with. Low houred P2F monkeys I don't give a damn for. In my opinion they reap what they sow. But guys who entered and served in this profession long before rich brats started ruining it for us I think deserve better. maybe you have been brainwashed by the Orange machine. I hope not. But as a Balpa CC member, albeit on a much smaller scale, I am disappointed by your views.

Best Regards

Sin Bin
 

You are NOT self employed. PARC and eJ may tell you that you are, but you are definitely not.

Let me ask you these questions (before HMRC does):

1) Are you provided with a roster?
2) Are you provided with tools? i.e. an aircraft, a crew room, charts etc
3) Do you provide your Piloting services to more than one operator?
4) If you are sick, do you have someone you send in your place to act as a "sub"?

If you can answer NO to 1 + 2 and YES to 3 + 4, then you may have a chance. But, we all know and HMRC know that this is clearly not the case. Be careful. And I'd be careful about bragging about your Tax affairs on PPRUNE. It's a bit dumb to be honest.:ugh:

Stansdead, don't worry it is all above board! Self employed is not strictly my situation, I'm not bragging at all. Just telling how it is. I'm just sitting this out until the end of the contract with gritted teeth.

sk8erboi

I think NSF was employing some gentle sarcasm don't you?

Such a balanced viewpoint. That sort of language does nobody any credit. You have strong views. We all do on some subject or other. That does not entitle us to refer to fellow pilots whom we do not know as "monkeys" or "rich brats". I don't know what company CC you are a member of but as a BALPA CC member you ought to remember that these fellows may also be BALPA members now or in the future. Incidentally I have just done a simulator detail with one whom you would refer to as a "monkey" or "rich brat". He was good. Very good. And very knowledgable for his stage of training. Indistinguishable from the good hand-picked cadet of yesteryear.

I deplore what has happened to the entry conditions for FOs but I have to say we are powerless to stop it within the law. Only airline executives and legislators can stop it. They have to be lobbied relentlessly. But, if we use the sort of language you use it will win no friends and win no battles.

Good luck Sin Bin.

All I am trying to advocate is that these bulletin boards are read with interest by lots of people. Including HMRC.:eek:

sk8erboy - thanks that at least over the years you have liked what I have said, even if now you do not! I think you misunderstood what was said - the simple fact is that we are at last now giving permanent jobs to high-houred pilots. A number of the guys who came from Parc via BMI are now being offered full-time jobs easyJet. That, folks, is good news and we should be grateful for it. No one has detested the disgraceful terms and conditions that were offered to our FOs than me, but there are signs that little by little things are improving. I can only tell you that right now any permanent job in the UK flying Airbuses is a rare beast indeed - as far as I know easyJet are the only company doing it. Therefore, knock us if you will, but we are offering something no one else is. As I say, it is not all bad.

NSF, I'd rather see cadets being offered a normal decent entry permanent contracts, instead of ex-BMI guys. No offence to them, but because of their hours they will most likely end up ahead of me on the command waiting list even though I am eligible for CPI. Our flight deck requirements are not such that we need to get either captains or command ready FOs. Many of us could have gone elsewhere 3 or 4 years ago but decided that easyJet was an OK place to climb the ladder. I know we are not a seniority based airline. But these are not desperate times in terms of recruitment, so rewarding loyalty wouldn't cost much.

P

NSF
You failed to mention that at least 12 of the ex-bmi are j. curd's P2F chapps :=

mac

Perhaps it is time we thought about it. Even if it doesn't fit in the orange ideology.

MAC we're not talking about them and they were never 'ex bmi'. They have't got the same full time contract offer as the guys with 1000 hrs +. There were about 7 of us on the Parc contract and about the same with CTC.

And you forgot to mention some of these have 8000 hours total, previous jet experience and command experience on turboprop...

One thing I have learnt is that you have to look case by case.

Respect other and if anyone is not happy with their own situation they should change it.

eagle 21
not having a go at you or direspecting you, two of my mates lost their job at bmi because of the P2F scam.
the point i was trying to make is, it would be interesting to know if any of the P2F guys will be offered perm contracts too.
m

Well I personally feel it is sad to see a comparison being made between one of the biggest operators in Europe and what is essentially a flag carrier from a developing country in the Far East. When viewed in that context, it is laughable.

Perhaps it is just me but does anyone else get the feeling that as time passes, many more people are donning the rose tinted glasses and are now starting to view the glass as half full with the current recruitment practices?

For anyone who does want to join easyJet then I can only sympathise wholeheartedly, since having no option than to take such an indignant entry into the RHS of an Airbus, is extremely sad. Even more so, since I think many of us know very well that things will only get worse and are very unlikely to get better.

Mac72, as far as I know, only people who have more than 750 hours (in February) have been offered perminant contracts, be they in Parc or CTC.

I concur with EpsilonVaz. The CTC Flexicrew pilots who were originally stood down in 2008 have now been offered permanent positions from 1st November.

I don't know anyone from Parc but have heard if they have over 750 hours they have been offered a position. :ok:

If you are CPI ready as you say I doubt these guys will get a command ahead of you. They will need to do at least one good LPC, then get a pre-CPI, then wait to be rostered for the three command prep flights to get to the position where you are now. Not sure how long that is at the current flow but from what I hear at least three years.

As always, on this forum there are a wide range of opinions - some informed and others less so. I have never pretended that I have anything other than utter disdain for the current FO contracts. I have to say, however, that things are not all bad at easyJet - right now there are few other companies in Europe I would wish to work for. If you are fortunate enough to have commenced a career at an early age with your national flag carrier, then I say well done to you - assuming it does not go bankrupt underneath you then you are truly blessed. For anyone else, companies like easyJet are a godsend.

Let us look at what is actually happening right now at easyJet rather than the failings of the past. As a little aside, if you are an FO or Captain with days leave to sell back you can get some serious money right now - I myself have just finished 2 days' leave flying at £980/day + sector pay + my regular salary. I would suggest to you that this is a good deal. If you are a Captain, and you are willing to surrender your 5/3/5/4 rostering for random rostering from June - August inclusive, easyJet are offering an EXTRA £10,000(or £5,000 if you are an FO). Once again, I would suggest there are worse fates to befall you. I have also, along with everyone else at easyJet, just been given 2 weeks' salary worth of share options as a thanks from the company for all our hard work during the recent disruption - I am frankly extremely grateful.

Regarding FO contracts, which quite rightly have been the source of much angst in the pilot community, things are changing. We are offering permanent contracts to around 50 pilots in 'seniority' order assuming you have more than 750 hours on type - thereby provding permanent jobs to both redundant BMI pilots and CTC cadets who have been on temporary contracts for the last 2 years. Once again, I would invite contributions from others who know of other UK airlines offering such opportunities right now. I will quote from the latest p-mail internal news to state what else is happening to give a feel for what is happening at easyJet right now.

We were originally planning a total of 37 promotions to Captain for the summer 2010 programme. Operating additional aircraft and re-phasing of the flying programme together with increased attrition means that we have now increased this to just over 80 Commands with a smaller number operating in the LHS on a seasonal basis. We are now at maximum training capacity. All Command offers have been on the current Terms and Conditions with the exception of a potential FRV (Flexible Rostering Variation) period for 6 months over the Winter period (there is a payment attached to this period if FRV is undertaken). EasyJet have confirmed to pilot representatives that they do not plan to engage Contract Captains for the Summer providing we can achieve the necessary flexibility through the schemes that have proposed (not withstanding the small number of CTC Trainers that operate for us as part of the CTC training contract).

We have added a further 110 First Officers to the pilot establishment numbers for Summer compared to an initial requirement of 88. We are now at maximum training capacity for the summer. We have engaged both ab-initio pilots from CTC and Oxford as well as a significant number of experienced Airbus FO’s from Parc Aviation and CTC. We have offered a letter of intent to employ just under 50 First Officers that have a minimum of 750+ factored easyJet hours and will fly for us over the coming Summer months. These pilots will be employed from 01 November 2010. Tell me, all you nay-sayers, where in Europe there is another company who can even come close to all this?

Is this a perfect company to work for? Absolutely not. Are there tensions due to the pressures on training and the overall flying programme? Absolutely. Am I mighty glad to have these problems rather than wondering whether I will ever work as a pilot again? Absolutely. In short, we are one of the few genuinely successful and stable airlines in Europe who are continuing to recruit despite the dire state of the overall airline industry. I fly brand new Airbuses every day to a staggering range of destinations in a safety conscious environment. I am delighted to be here, and for all its faults there is nowhere else in the world I would rather work right now. I will continue to back BALPA 100% in making easyJet 'a great place to work', and to fight the worst excesses of our management, but please let us see that we are genuinely in as safe a place as I know of right now.

May I ask why easyjet is offering permanent jobs to contractors and not to pilots who passed the direct entry pilot assessment in summer 2008? They too got a letter of intent and most of them are still current on 320 with thousands of hours on type, so why easyjet didn't offer a job to them too?

regards

I agree with Foreever again; hence why I started this thread in the first place. I ve sat in the pool since July 2008, with a proposed start date later that year to be based in MXP. I am 737 rated, and was recommended by many TRI/TRE's Captains, Base Captain etc, and when I first applied to Easyjet in 2003, I was told that I needed TP or Jet time to be considered for the TRSS. So I went to an Airline and built up that Jet time, and reapplied, only to pass the selection and then be cast aside, because it now suits EasyJet.

I agree with NSF on many points. I have jumped through every hoop that Easyjet have asked me to jump through, yet I find myself, out of the pool come July, because I now don't have an Airbus rating! I feel that I'm just chasing my tail with this lot.

I've spoken to the recruitment dept, just to be told 'Sorry'! It's not there fault, but I feel very let down through no fault of my own. What's the point in going on about it though? My friends at Easyjet feel just as frustrated as me, but it's my wife and young children I feel really sorry for. I live minutes from STN, and I end having to commute hundreds of miles a week, to keep my job, where we don't know what the future holds from one minute to the next.

I do appreciate that my position is a lot better than those poor buggers, who have been made redundant and have not found work since. I don't forget that! However, I feel really fed up with the way it's all going, and I have started looking for non aviation work, so I can return to normaility, and get to spend time with my family, instead of waking up every morning, wondering if I am going to have a job today.

If, it's not the recession, it's terrorism or Volcanos or rising oil prices etc that's going cause another airline to go under or our T & C's to fall even further. The nature of our industry is highly volitile and vulnerable; that's just the nature of the beast I hear you say! You are right! I think what most of us are looking for is a bit of security for our families, a salary that matches our responsibilities, and some respect from the management. Too much to ask?

It's starting to look that way...

SiJet

NSF, was that last post written for an audience on Pprune or an audience somewhere else..?

Sin bin and ex bmi folks good luck at easy, this is the way it used to be with experienced pilots moving company

You are wrong on this one si, the reason can't be you are not type rated, indeed, as I said before, there are many in the holding pool who are A320 type rated and current and have more hours on type than some of the contractors presently being offered permanent jobs, still none of them heard from easy. It's indeed quite surprising that easyjet didn't even care to give an explaination to holding pool pilots about why they are no longer considered, nor they considered to at least give us priority for another assessment once direct entry recruitment will start again. Hopefully norman who is clearly in the know may enlighten us about this new recruitment policy.... :(

Double the drift - spot on. The airline is a shambles. Crewing levels are a joke and although I have no problem with people taking the money to fly a flexi roster, I hardly think that is something for NSF to highlight as an example of what a great company we are!!!

Very rose, very tinted specs. Expect pilots to leave in droves as soon as the opportunities arrive.

Correct. 5 CTC slave F/Os' stuck 2 fingers up to the company and resigned for pastures new last week. Well done to them and good luck. Expect a large number of F/Os' and quite a few skippers to leave in the not too distant future should opportunities arise elsewhere.

NSF

It will take more than a few grand in exchange for having a life over the summer and some free "conditional" share options to convince me anything has changed at easy. Nothing has - they have completely :mad: it up regarding crew numbers for the peak season, as we all knew they would. Summer of 2006 all over again anyone? They are buying us off to cover their own mistakes and piss poor decisions that were driven by a combination of corporate greed and a complete disdain for anyone within the company other than top level management. The only positive news is offering full time contracts to F/Os who have been treated like part time shelf stackers for 2 years. However, that is no great credit to our paymasters - they are simply doing something that common decency dictates they should have done a long time ago. Same with the pay deal on offer, sector pay for positioning and proper sector pay for flying to the Middle East and back in one duty is not generosity that we should all applaud, it is the company rectifying something we should have had years ago.

If they really wanted to make easy "A great place to work" and "re-engage" with the pilot workforce they could. The problem of course, as always, is it would require them to spend some money and take a long term view of how they crew the airline. And we all know they would rather set fire to their own underpants than do that.

I doubt I am alone in thinking this summer will be, erm, "interesting". :uhoh:

si jet - I cannot in any way justify what has happened to those in the hold pool. What I can tell you is that, in my judgement, it is very unlikely that any of those people will be offered jobs any time soon by easyJet. The whole recruitment situation has changed so dramatically, and we now have large numbers of temporary pilots looking for permanent jobs. Quite rightly they will be considered first, and it is only after they have jobs that we will look elsewhere. I am genuninely sorry that you guys have been treated so shabbily, but I nonetheless think that is what will happen.

Claudio - My comments are not to a 'wider audience'. I have no ambitions whatsoever in management, and neither seek their favour or fear their disdain. I am in the fortunate position of having a job I am very content in at easyJet, and if never promoted again would be very happy with where I have got to. I do, however, have some concerns about the attitudes of some both in and out of easyJet to all that is going on. There are a number of pilots working for easyJet who, if they were given a free Ferrari by the company, would have been given one in the wrong colour! All is not perfect at easyJet, but there are some very positive aspects to working here - which I have tried to highlight. There are a lot of pilots on here who would genuinely feel better if easyJet went bankrupt, and that includes some of those working there. It would somehow justify the ridiculous excesses of their opinions. We are indeed in a crewing shambles - I am unashamedly doing everything I can to ensure we run our program over the coming months. That is because I want our customers to come back again and because it is in all of our interests to fly for a successful airline. That is just pure common sense - alas, experience shows that common sense is neither common or evident to most people. I do not like what has happened in that last couple of years any more than anyone else, but I do detect a new reality coming in among our managers. They now know that keeping the pilots and cabin crew on board makes sound business sense - it is just a shame it has taken them so long to find out what any of us could have told them years ago. Whatever the mistakes of the past, I choose to look towards the future. It can be bright if we choose to make it so. I sure want easyJet to recover from the current situation. If ever there was a time to pull together to make easyJet successful, this is it. I would humbly suggest that those who are within would do well to think likewise.

.

Don't be so naive NSF, they are in a hole and you and all the others who are happy to take the Queen's shilling are digging them out! You've been complaining on here for ever about how much the easyJet management are only interested in short term gain, then you have the gall to boast about how much you are making by working your days off.

Sir, you are a hypocrite.

NSF - you amaze me. I expect you also believe that Mr's Brown, Clegg and Cameron have our best interests at heart too!

My wish is that we do not let these contract F/Os go anywhere near a permanent easyjet contract. For while these guys are taken on ahead of those in the hold pool, the temporary contract will be seen by many as the only way into the company. This will lead to more people signing up.

The only beneficiary from this situation is CTC.

Other than for those reasons detailed in the Berger report, I see no benefit of streaming money out of the company to those arrogant CTC Tw:mad:s when it could be kept inhouse, employing motivated, talented people on permanent contracts.

FPS

So management screw up and will cause, as yet unknown, significant damage to our brand and inconvenience to our passengers. The tactic some/most of you on here seem to advocate is to cause further damage to our brand and reputation by non co-operation in the hope that our management will be sacked on the spot. Great plan bound to work .....

If you find yourself in a badly damaged boat you don't sit there moaning about the crew that got you into the mess, you start bailing while you moan so you can get to a port were you can then duff the crew up and hold them to account. Maybe your efforts mean the repercussions for the crew are not as severe as they might have been (they will still be severe) but then you are alive in a calm port and not swimming in the ocean (looking for a job) because the boat sank.

NSF is right when he says some of you could be handed a Ferrari and you'd complain about the colour. You are the opposite end of the spectrum to Cor but no less misguided. I am being offered more money in exchange for work when most of my friends are taking pay cuts if they even still have a job. I loath this management but I love my family, my home and my job and I want to keep them. I've already started bailing.

pleased for you mate.

Ashling,

Perhaps you'd like to explain why not offering to give up precious summer leave and days off is "non co-operation". This is just the sort of reverse psychology employed by the management to try to convince us that we are the "problem".

How "co operative" have they been during the pay negotiations? When asked for a day off? When asked for summer leave? When asked for an improvement to the crew food?

I work very hard as it is and I don't think I'm "misguided" in wanting to retain some semblance of sanity and well earned rest during what will, in any event, turn out to be a chaotic summer.

If the management had been more "co operative" then they might have listened to us in December and started recruiting some of your friends who you say don't have jobs.