Amazing. Genuinely sorry to hear that you think that about us. Would love to know what we might have done to give you that impression? For the benefit of everybody we fly with for the rest of our careers, that is?

Motivated we are (in spite of what's happened since we signed up), talented.. well, that's up to or future colleagues to decide. Are we really so different, Flyit Pointit Sortit?

Nevertheless, as NSF has said in the past, everybody is entitled to their opinion, and to be free to express it in a way which does not cause harm or threat of harm to others. That includes you, Flyit Pointit Sortit, so by all means, call us Arrogant Tw**s. I hope it makes you feel better.

My impression is that NSF has considerably more experience of working in easyJet than most of us here. Even as an ex-engineer, I find his comments to be unbiased and rich in factual material - something a bit lacking on these threads of late.

Edited for clarification :)

I think NSF was referring to CTC the organization, not any of their protégées who I've found to all be highly motivated and excellent people to work with.

Yes....African dude, read it again.

it doesn' t matter who he was referring to. You don' t talk like that, period.

I was talking to Flyit Pointit Sortit. NSF I support entirely.

Hi Company Message

My ire wasn't directed at those who do not take up the offer for genuine reasons of which there are many as it will suit some (me) but not others. It was directed at those who seem to think causing even greater disruption by deliberate non co-operation will somehow make things better. It will not.

I currently loath our management for the reasons you highlight and more but it is vital we keep a sense of perspective in all this and I think that was what NSF was driving at and I agree with him.

Over the next 2 years I will be something like 30k plus better off tax free due to various share schemes and options that the company have introduced. I got a quick command and 2 type ratings. The you at work scheme saves me 1000+ off child care and I get to see my family every day. So yes you are right it is not all great but it is not all bad either.

We need to get behind BALPA and ensure we fight through them as a united group not as fractured individuals and we need to ensure that we do not take our frustrations out on our passengers.

Woah there.

I am taking this as a lesson in how what you meant is not what you said.

I am sorry if I offended anyone who is employed by or who has come through the CTC route, that was not my intention. My anger is vented at CTC the organisation.

The organisation that exloits the dreams of many to line their own pockets.

The organisation that is still trying to get people to hand over cash on the basis of a pilot shortage when there are still unemployed experienced pilots from XL, Globespan, BMI etc.

The organisation where one of the senior directors goes into a pub in Lyndhurst with a load of car brochures to brag about whether to get a maserrati or ferrari to several cadets who are worried about not getting placements and the looming potential of bankruptcy etc . He is one of the nastiest and arrogant individuals I have ever met.

Any scheme that gives a penny to the CTC organisation just grates me and the anger that this instills led to the use of that language.

I am also concernced that if easyJet only start offering permanent positions to those who have done a contract, then anyone who joins in the future will have to go through this route, ensuring a plentiful flow of cash from easyjet to CTC.

Again I was not trying to offend anyone who is employed by CTC as we all have to ensure that we are paying our mortgages. I am sorry if this has been the case. That said, anyone I have flown with from CTC has been of the highest standard both as individuals and pilots - just to be clear:D.

Hi Flyit Pointit Sortit,

My fault entirely for misunderstanding to what / whom you had directed your comments, and am somewhat relieved to hear that it's not the cadets! My apologies :) If what you say about the management behaviour is true then it makes me feel somewhat sick.

Anyway, sorry about the thread creep.

Spot on Claudio. ;)

Isn't NSF an 'unofficial member' of the recruitment team, peddling the various P2F/P4T schemes and working hard to divide the pilot corps with his company minded propaganda? Whenever push comes to shove, he backs down. No backbone, no forward looking vision, only short term thinking (making a quick buck over the summer season) looking out for his own training job.

His only followers are a bunch of unemployed wannabe's, clinging to his words in the hope of one joining his orange dream. Most experienced pilots take his words with a very laaaaaaarge grain of salt. :hmm:

Ah, Doug - ever the man of balance. Whether 'experienced' pilots (I take it that means you) take my words with a large pinch of salt is entirely up to them (you?). I am always up for informed discussion and try to have a balanced view of things - but there again, why let the facts get in the way of a good rant? The first thing that puzzles me Doug is why on earth are you still working for easyJet? You hate the company with a passion and will go to extraordinary lengths to play your part in its downfall.

The current situation that is causing you such delight is us having insufficient pilots (particularly captains) for the summer. No doubt this has come about because of management ineptitude, and you are the leader of the pack in calling for 'punishment' of our management by making easyJet unable to crew its flights at our most profitable time of year. That attitude seems to me similar to finding yourself as a crew member on a cross channel ferry that has just collided with another ship because the captain was asleep in his cabin and is now taking on water. Do you then decide to let the ship sink to show the captain how bad he really is or do you help to man the pumps to save the ship? Common sense to me says that it would be in your interest to save the ship and wait till later to sort out the captain. Apparently not! Let's all sit back and watch a catastrophe unfold so that Cor and his mates get fired. I am a simple soul when it comes to this sort of thing. I actually want to see easyJet customers getting on the flights they booked and not have them go elsewhere.

One of the other accusations you make is that I have no backbone and that when push come to shove I back down. How exactly would that manifest itself? Do you want me to sabotage an aircraft or maybe find a hydraulic leak on the walkround to delay a flight? Perhaps even go sick at the last moment to stop the flight going? That would show them we mean business. Get real Doug - you are an increasingly sad figure whose obsessive rants against easyJet are just irrational. I have made it clear again and again that I would back industrial action at the right time for the right issue. Specifically, I would have gone on strike against the current FO contracts had the opportunity been offered. I have argued publicly with Cor both at Gatwick and at the SEP day - I can tell you that in both cases there were precious few others willing to do so. I will back any credible plan to improve pilots' terms and conditions. What I will not do is act irresponsibly to bring the company down in times of need. Right now, it is in every single pilot's interest that we crew every flight we can over the summer - only a fool can think otherwise. There will be plenty of time for recriminations - that should not prevent us from acting in our own best interests and ensuring the company can operate safely and successfully.

You need to leave easyJet soonest mate - let me recommend a particularly fine option. In today's Flight there is an advert from A320 Captains working for Safi Airways. They would be delighted to give you a job I am sure. And after you have worked for them for 6 months, come back and tell us all how great it is. You know they will pay you so much more, give you such a great roster and so much time off. You owe it to yourself - get a real job rather than a naff one like easyJet. And do you know the amazing thing Doug? There are literally hundreds of people queuing up to take your job if you leave. Maybe they are all berks just like me.

NSF/Doug
 

You both have your points.

Doug, I am sure you have your reasons for hating easy, but NSF is correct in saying there are hundreds of people queuing up for your job.

I'm one of them, having recently applied.

There are far, far worse A320 jobs than the ones you have. Sure, it could be better, and if I joined I hope over time improvements can be made through whatever negotiating means you have.

However, I work for an airline who doesn't seem to have the ongoing stability, or even the daily stability of easyjet. You need to transport your passengers and fight the fight in the correct manner.

Now, how many DEC's are you taking.....?

hopefully ZERO my friend

So, by what date must eJ's pilots have replied to the company's offer?

From the horses mouth:

from a small horse:

FiftypercentN1
 

Exactly my point. Even though you obviously missed it.

Doug I'm generally with you in what I read from you on here, and I disagree with the sentiment that you wish to see Easyjet go down - however your above statement is totally wide of the mark. This I know for a fact, and I can promise you that despite my surprise at what seemed like his paean to Easyjet, you would be better off were more pilots in the same mould at NSF. I find ambivalence and apathy are the greatest threats in pilots selling themselves down the river but you won't find those qualities in him.

In response to the quote above I think you could argue that there is forward vision and long term thinking in making a quick buck over the summer. This leopard won't change its spots. "Making Easyjet a grrrreat place to work" is one of those vague, idle aspirations that gets trotted out every so often to show the rabble and then shoved back in the pile with paperless cockpits and nuclear disarmament. Given that, why take a hit and suffer for the greater good when ultimately it'll get you nowhere?

This is from parents' day today, latest report from teacher:

This is where the effort is going and this sow's ear ain't going to turn into a silk purse. It'll remain something you just can't polish. The company is dead against you, most of your colleagues really don't care - you're on a hiding to nothing. If he or someone else wants to take the money, why not? It will probably be the most realistic shot at improving your lot that you can make at that place.

Norman, I always appreciate your well thought out posts. But I think this does not do justice to what's happening in our company. We are not on a sinking ship. We have many many options.

I'll use part of you nautical analogy if I may. We are on one of those Roman warships, you know, the kind with peddles at the side for rowing when there's no wind. The officers in their infinite quest for eliminating cost have sacrificed a pig before setting sail to fight a war, believing the windgods will favour them with tailwinds all the way to battle. Hence they leave with 'optimised' levels of rowing crew..

However, the promised tailwinds do no materialise and now the ship is so slow and underpowered that they risk missing the war completely, and no war means no plundering. So the officers are now handing out bags of silver coins to volunteers who want to row non-stop for a week. The crew also realise that they might miss all the good plundering if the don't get on with it, but wonder if it is worth the extra silver coins if they work themselves to death. They call the officers and tell them that they are all willing to be flexible to a certain extent for a certain price. This might cost a bit more, but surely this is better than bribing a few greedy crew to overwork themselves? And who will need to take over when the greedy ones burn out? Exactly.

Penko is much nearer the truth than NSF, in my opinion. NSF, you say that we should do our utmost to save the company this summer, but fact of the matter is that we will most likely make a profit - just not as big as management would like and that, is a good thing. Why? Because no manager anywhere cares for words in any way at all, although they do spout sugar-coated ones at the employees as they've been taught that it's good practise to do so when they did their MBA (Pikey O'Leary probably skipped a few classes though :} ). Cor and his cronies will be judged on their results. Not what we think of them. Therefore, I shall go no distance further in any way for the managers, but I will not sabotage the company either and I will then smile and shake my head when it all goes pearshaped this summer. And then I shall think no more of the company when I go home after a day's work before the next time I report. I do plan to have a nice summer :ok:

PENKO - nice one!

I agree with Doug the Head and PENKO.

Never, have I heard so much common sense spoken.

Well done lads!

:D:D

Been swimmin' in the pool for more than 2 years, now I see parc and CTC guys getting in before me. Well I thought ezy was a serious airline, I understand it has become an unrespectful one, too.
cheers
G.D.S

GDS,

I know what you mean mate. That'a why I started this thread to begin with. It's time to look elsewhere and maybe somewhere out of this country might be a start.

So much for gaining experience on jets and working hard to better yourself. Hence why so many are looking at EK,EY etc in the middle east.

I wish you all the best for the future.

Sijet :ugh:

Seems to have gone quiet! Does this mean that eJ has managed to get enough volunteers to crew all its planned services for June?

Flight to PRG Cancelled - Lack Of Crew
 

Dont know if they have June sorted out but im working out here in Prague just now and the hotel was full of passengers the other night delayed 24 hours.

Reason being - No Crew to fly the aircraft!!!

Maybe they are a touch short of drivers?????


Spanner :ok::ok::ok:

per company mail, "with the release of our winter schedule,some cost reducing measures will need to be taken in order to return to a level of strength" ,now what lies beneath these glorious words.:yuk:

So, today new email with possible agreement for current Ezy employee but what about the new contract which will be effective from 1st oct?

Any Ezy Balpa member willing to get in touch? via pm?

tks.

same as ryan... easy hires only rubbish P2F guys in order to slow down union members, and things will end up like in ryanair, that's cristal clear. :yuk:

hiring is type rated only. anyone being offered contracts this year is already working for the company on the flexiscrew scheme or via agency.

wind check - you appear to have lost your way and stumbled onto a thread that really does not concern you. Given your much-stated view based on zero knowledge that easyJet is a 'sh!t company', I am not sure why you have anything to say on this issue. I can only presume that our selection system has worked perfectly in the past and rejected your application - not to worry though, you apparently work for the perfect company now and will no longer have to concern yourself with the trash companies likes ours. Interestingly enough, you asked previously how the p2f 'a$$holes' sitting next to me feel about their lot at easyJet. As one of them pointed out to you elsewhere, on the whole they feel pretty good. They are being offered permanent jobs and a steady improvement financially as their experience increases. That can only be good news for the future. We are not a perfect company but many of our issues as pilots have been addresssed in our latest pay offer (even though I now think it will be rejected). We are probably the only company in the UK being offered a pay rise (1% but it is still a rise) and I for one am delighted to be at easyJet right now.

By the way wind check, Doug the Head absolutely hates working for easyJet and cannot sleep in his bed at night because he is so stressed out by his £100k-a-year salary package, 6-months' sick pay, 7% company pension contributions, loss of licence cover, staff travel, night-stop allowances, positioning pay etc. Perhaps you might be so good as direct him to that perfect airline where you work a pre-set roster pattern so you can know your days off a year in advance, fly brand new Airbuses, can work all over Europe, are being offered a pay-rise instead of a pay cut this year and have more job security than just about any other airline around. Ah sorry, that would be easyJet and that's a really rubbish company. What about that perfect one you are in? It's called..... no, sorry, it just seems to have slipped my mind.

Oh Norman...do shut up!

Still loyally pulling the management/PR/recruitment wagon, err Norman?

With all your gratis touting here, EZY must be saving a fortune by no longer having to place job adds in Flight Global! ;)

By the way, how are you doing with filling out those STRIKE papers? :p

Norman, as a matter of fact I used to fly for easy before and I left after 4 years for somthing much better. Working for a low cost airline is a very exhausting job and it's killing your body. Your days off are very usefull to catch up the lack of sleep, after 5 days in a raw of early wake ups finishing late afternoon, or early midays finishing late after midnight. 4 bloody long sectors in average and maximum duties. Lots of company pressure. In fact your life duration is going down EVERY day you go to work.
I'am affraid to remind you that you will retire at 65 and your funerals will take place less than 10 years aftewards. That's why you still think easyjet treat you well.

As for P2F :mad:, well, tell us how is their sh1t contract looking like, no fix crew base, sh1t hourly salary, etc, etc...This is getting even worse than Ryanair.

Sean Dillon - thanks for your valued and insightful contribution.

Doug the Head - I suggest you and wind check get into a bit of a PM flurry and he can commiserate with you still not being able to escape from the evil orange empire. He can then share with you his exciting new life which is just so much better. Go on - you owe it to yourself to leave here mate.

My own personal careers advice is, of course, always available to you at no cost. On the domestic front, there is always a good chance our very own British Airways, flushed with its current success, is about to recruit willing FOs onto the Airbus. None of that nasty final salary pension to worry about now obviously which saves any anxiety over whether it might fold some day. Also, you would not have to concern yourself with the stress of command any longer as you won't be a captain there for at least 15 years. May I also suggest that for those seeking a warmer environment to bring a gentle thaw to that cold heart, Emirates and Qatar are an excellent places to start? A number of our former employees genuinely love it out there. Mr Akbar Al Baker in Qatar is a particularly reasonable gentleman to work for I am told and would welcome any constructive criticism you might care to share with him. Just think you could be part of that process of employee involvement in all company matters he has become so appreciated for. Then of course Atlas Air are recruiting DECs on the Airbus based in Marrakech - 7000 Euros per month before tax - but it just has to be better than life here don't you think? Then, for the more seasoned veterans, opportunity knocks out there in Vietnam. Oh, I nearly forgot - Senegal Airlines are about to kick off with a rather natty little A319 operation. And then of course there are countless Chinese opportunities - Deer Air, Hainan Airways etc. And finally, both Turkish Airlines and Onur Air have been sniffing about for DECs on the Airbus. Does it get any better? As you can imagine, every one of these companies just loves and esteems its foreign pilots, and would of course treat them with unusual respect and consideration at all times. The list is just growing by the day and I can only recommend every last one of them in comparison to easyJet, which as wind check can verify is just dire.

wind check - you cannot imagine my delight to discover that you are no longer having to subject yourself to that 'company pressure' every day. Strange thing is I never get any of that, but there you go. I wish you every success my friend out there in whatever promised land you have found - for us simple folk who just like to get home most nights and have a great day out with some great people, easyJet is actually quite a good life. And, there are a whole lot of 'p2f' people about to have permanent jobs at a time when countless other companies are laying people off. It really is terrible here compared with any company you care to name.

where's "much better" then windjet, tell us all.....:O

Dear dear, Norm. At least "Porridge" used to have lots of humour!
What's gone wrong at ***asy Jet?

"Norman, as a matter of fact I used to fly for easy before and I left after 4 years for somthing much better. Working for a low cost airline is a very exhausting job and it's killing your body. Your days off are very usefull to catch up the lack of sleep, after 5 days in a raw of early wake ups finishing late afternoon, or early midays finishing late after midnight. 4 bloody long sectors in average and maximum duties. Lots of company pressure. In fact your life duration is going down EVERY day you go to work.
I'am affraid to remind you that you will retire at 65 and your funerals will take place less than 10 years aftewards. That's why you still think easyjet treat you well.

As for P2F , well, tell us how is their sh1t contract looking like, no fix crew base, sh1t hourly salary, etc, etc...This is getting even worse than Ryanair."


I Totally agree with that. I've been working at easyjet for the last two years and I am already exhausted.....moral very low..

superced
Nothing to do with being French and not used to hard work perhaps??
:ok:

Poor NSF, slowly being exposed as a sort of orange Leo Hairy Camel: selfishly touting the management horn or telling every to bug off if they don't like it, except when his own contract is at stake of course. Such chivalry...

But hey, then again, it's pretty obvious why, isn't it...? How many more months until retirement Norm? Anything to talk up that share price and cash in those options just in time before leaving the sinking ship, right Norm? The ends justify the means, 'ey... ;)

Like the Piper of Hamlin, our favorite direct entry "senior training captain" has gathered a following of naive, new and cheap cannon fodder (a.k.a. cadets) to feed the orange monster by telling everybody just how wunderbar life in the low-cost business is! Hey, it's so great that 'they even pay you whilst positioning,' isn't that fantastic! They f*cking better be Norman, because you're on f*cking duty! It's work and usually you get paid for doing that. :rolleyes:

These poor kids with 200 hours and a CPL must now feel truly shafted as they have been suckered into this Ponzi scheme of paying for ratings as they stand in line hoping to be privileged enough to pay for a P2F (P2BR) schemes, not sure of how and when they can make their next interest payment on that gigantic loan that get's bigger with every 'job.' Great advice Norm! I hope you scored enough brownie points in hanger 69! :yuk:

And the most scary thing about it: this low-cost sh!t will float all the way to the top, affecting all major airlines as they desperately will need to lower their T&C's in order to level the playing field to keep up with the low-costs. Soon there will not be any decent companies left over to escape to. That's why I'm so active against low-costs and the selfish, short term, naive idiots who defend it. Perhaps I have a bigger picture Norm, a picture that requires me to work for a few more decades (not months!) until retirement? :ouch:

;)

Just discovered that AEU is wet leasing a B757 to eJ for the summer.

Is it preferable to wet lease from another airline which cannot provide the standard eJ cabin service or is it preferable to accept contract pilots into eJ for the summer to fly eJ a/c with eJ cabin crew providing an eJ product?

For me neither of the two, just hire enough people to do the job in the first place would be good..

Speevy