Flybe to buy BMI?
 

Flybe enters race for British Midland - Times Online

The story continues....

It would be great to join companies. Flybe is a good company to work for and I reckon joining forces with bmi would be really benefit everybody.

Please define everybody?

Perhaps they are going to buy it with all the money they saved not giving us a pay rise or bonus this year!:}

"Benefit everybody"
 

Not for those of us in the bmi/bmir hold pools it wouldn't (assuming Flybe would disband the hold pools like they did with the BACON one).

From The Times article:
The obvious suggestion would be for Flybe to grab bmi regional and possibly baby too. As for LHR - I suspect that would be (unappealing) for French and Co.

However the rumours about Flybe and bmi regional have been on and off ever since Lufthansa announced their intentions. So in theory, this article does not really tell us anything that we did not know already! ;)

BMI hold pool
 

I was in Connect holdpool and was offered permanent position with Flybe when they took over. Have not looked back but with overall job situation expect this takeover(?) may be different.

Best of luck to those waiting anyhow, try and stay sane. It is worth it.

Now that would be an interesting acquisition. Especially as BA owns a 15% stake in Flybe as negotiated as part of the BA Connect deal.

Perhaps not so simple a buyout unless BA took the LHR operation and Flybe the regional and BMI Baby.

Pure speculation obviously.

Or a joint Flybe/Virgin bid........Flybe take Regional and Baby, Virgin take the LHR operation!

TBE.

TBE,

And with what, exactly, would Virgin buy BMI with? Branson doesn't have two pennies to rub together at the moment despite his smoke screen rhetoric.

Mergers = lost jobs - period !

BACON Hold Pool
 

How many guys did or did not get taken on buy Flybe who were in BACON's hold pool. Did everyone get an offer take or leave it etc? How many are in the Mainline and Baby pools's. I believe the Regional pool has around 12 to 16 or so guys swimming. With a much larger Flybe would there be a need for a combined Midland group and Flybe pool. Good luck to all involved. :ok:

Apparently a double decker bus has been spotted on the moon this week.

Any truth in this rumour?

Does anybody want BMI? An extraordinary airline with apparently one manager per staff member. I have never seen so many managers running around, and all to little avail- not a happy place. Flybe would not swallow this one at all well- it is not the same business model, no commonality on types- in short a massive indigestible lump of business with nightmare staff amalgamation scenarios. Whatever was the OP thinking?

I think the difference with the FlyBe/BACon takeover is that the job market was totally different then as it was just about peaking if not already peaked. Lots and lots of pilots left BACon when FlyBe announced the takeover, thus creating lots of jobs for pilots in the BACon hold pool (me being one of them). Times are different now, and there are not many other jobs that pilots would or could move on to, thus not creating spaces for swimmers.

I realise that BMI are under some pressure, it would be great if Virgin took mainline and Flybe took regional and baby! I just want to wish all my ex work mates the very best whatever happens.

For those on the 737 Ryanair and Flydubai are real options. i've been interviewed by both and am just considering my options.

TGH

If Flybe are interested in anything it is surely only BMI regional. That would fit quite nicely into Flybe's very successful business model. They have proved they can get rid of 145s and have plenty of Dash 8s on order to replace them. It would also further help the business / leisure passenger mix for Flybe. I suspect it would only be taken on if they can negotiate similar terms to the BACON take over ie Lufty pay Flybe to take it off their hands. Otherwise I'd say Flybe would rather see BMI regional fall on it's arse and fill the void themselves without the hassle of a takeover. Lets be honest, who else in the UK would want or has the resources to take over BMI regional?

Thats my 6 pence worth!!

Gordon Brown is more likely to win the current series of X Factor than Flybe taking on the festering corpse of BMI.

Mainline has no relevance to Flybe whatsoever; Baby is about as appealing to the directors as an acid enema; and Regional does not offer anything to the Flybe network that is worth the cost and hassle of taking it on. BACON did offer many advantages in terms of size increase, route growth and a big payout from a profitable (at the time) parent.

BMI group has none of these. You may as well speculate on next weekend's lottery numbers, because you have far more chance of success.

Theoretically, isn't it a little tricky to split the businesses, because certainly as far as pilots are concerned, all employees are actually employed by the holding company with a corresponding global seniority list aren't they?

I know the company ignored that at the beginning of the year but...

:confused:

The three companies have separate seniority lists. Group date of joining only determines redundancy (and staff travel!) within the individual company you work in- ie, baby pilots (max seniority 8 years) and regional pilots (all but the top15 or so, seniority less than 9 years) would not be displaced to make jobs for mainline pilots (average seniority about 15 years) if all the redundancies happened within mainline.
All this, of course, is true if LIFO is applied as the main criterion for redundancy; this is still subject to revision to comply with age discrimination legislation.

I did hear a rumour (note: rumour), that should flybe acquire baby and/or regional they wouldn't want the pilots or airframes.

BMI is a main competitor of BA out of LHR and as such their demise (sad as it would be)would only strengthen BA's position.

There is no sentiment in the airline business.

Hilarious CHfour, don't give up your day job.

I told you it was a rumour, let's leave it at that.

It certainly would be a mammoth undertaking for Flybe if it were true... Even integrating Regional and Baby would be difficult enough let alone mainline! When I first heard about this, I assumed people were just talking about Regional (as that made more sense) but seemingly not, French wants pretty much the whole lot...

I'm sure Flybe will want to pour over the figures and perhaps come up with some kind of deal with Lufthansa, much like they did with BA during the merger with BAcon. bmi is heavily loss making and would be a huge financial burden to whoever take it on, its a risk that Lufthansa no longer wants and one that others should be wary about because to turn a company who still makes hundreds of millions of pounds loss with a billion pound turnover isn't going to change overnight.

What ever happens, it would radically change Flybe from what it is now... Especially as Jim French is even said to be interested in 'parts of the Heathrow operation'. I'd be very interested to hear what Flybe have in mind for it, because if it were to happen, it sure as hell wouldn't be staying in its current form!

ATW Daily News

LIFO is no longer acceptable as a chopping tool, against EU law, but if any airline took over BMI there would have to be staff and cost reductions, stands to reason that if the business model worked in the current format it would be profitable now, enough said! As for seniority lists, these usually go out of the window, harsh times, tough decisions are the privilege of the bean counters and faceless fat cats whom patrol the corridors of power.

Wonder who (according to The Times) will be taking over bmi this Sunday? Should we have a sweepstake? :rolleyes:

The Rolls Royce case and unite, conclusion was that LIFO is a legitimate criteria..unless..It is used as the sole source of decision, then it is not legal as it potentially breaks EU age discrimination laws.. In other word the company would have to have LIFO plus a range of measuring tools, performance, attendance records, and in the case of pilots, sim and line check results could be used.

"It was found that whilst the use of the length of service criteria is potentially indirectly discriminatory against younger workers, so long as it is Not the sole criteria used and that it is used as a means of a legitimate aim – which in this case was to reward worker’s loyalty and desire to achieve a stable workforce – it could be objectively justified".

What this means in real terms is a guy with two years in the company but above average performance and no sickness could bump off a 20 yr average guy with average sickness.. having said that, which one would you keep as a bean counter.. the lower cost sharper guy or the jurasic plodder..I,m not saying either way is fair and equitable, but its the law.

By the way, BALPA, already know this, but if you are contributing 1 percent of 140K you are more value to them than the 1 percent of 40K,, loyalty is pocket deep.

As a former FO at flybe it has always impressed me how far the company had come from such humble roots - a couple of twin otters farting about down in the Channel Islands (and lets face it in quite a short period of time too). Given its morphing into what it has become today is it inconceivable that it might venture into longer haul operations.

True such a venture would involve a good dollop of trouble and strife on all levels (crewing, finances etc etc etc) - but as somebody who bore witness to the BACON takeover and its aftermath I can say that things simmer down, disgruntled people move on and in time stability (or what counts as stability in the aviation game) returns.

Just my thoughts, please feel free to rip them to shreds.........

shlittlenellie
 

LIFO is NOT allowed to be the only,sole deciding factor in making redundancies anymore.

Virgin and BALPA recently worked out a scheme that included seniority as the MAIN factor (read as date of joining), but it also included "qualifications" (i.e. Company TRE/LTC etc - which no junior FO was of course) and also allowed for live disciplinaries to be taken into account.

So, BALPA can tell you what they like, but seniority has just had a Horse and Cart driven through it at Virgin and it'll be the same elsewhere. Believe me.

OH PLEASE !!!!! :ugh:

Absolutely correct but did the actual redundancies at Virgin in the end match LIFO even taking the other factors into account?

One wonders how LIFO can be age discriminatory when a "seniority" list demonstrates no such demographics?

:ugh:

I have heard from a well placed source that FlyBE have done a deal to buy bmi. I am not sure if they are buying everything or gutting and filleting the organisation to take the best bits. The A330s will be returned to the leasing companies at the end of this year.

Apparently the deal was agreed last night.

yeah right! Just like that eh????:ugh:

G-AWZK

I'd reconsider the phrase "well placed source" if I was you!

If it has, or were to happen, which I currently sprinkle with a healthy dose of scepticism, then how would the pay scales be resolved with such a gap between the BMI pay scales and the Flybe Jet scales?

Top end for a Captain, using slightly rusty figures, shows a £40,000 difference.

That's going to be painful for anybody although I suppose the difference between the two scales and no pay is even bigger! :eek:

Good luck to all at BMI, it must be an awful time for you all and I hope it gets resolved amicably and without too much pain!

Funny that G-AWZK, I'd heard that too. Insider knowledge is a powerful thing :ok:

I'm pretty sure that Jim is only interested in the Regional and Baby bits, and routes only, not hardware. How the details will pan out is a debate for the future.

I remember talk a couple of years ago that Virgin were looking to Flybe for a partnership in as much as Flybe would be a feeder airline to their longhaul fleet. The reasons were that the Virgin longhaul FO's with thousands of hours didn't have enough manual take-offs and landings to progress to command!

Perhaps there is a deal that Jim's got up his sleeve for the Heathrow slots!

That said, it's all speculation. Lets hope though that the Flybe seniority list isn't corrupted by incoming pilots as happened with the BACon fiasco! :hmm:

I hope you realise that this comment does not make you look that great.

There maybe a misunderstanding here, perhaps I should have used the word diluted rather than corrupted. No disrespect to the ex Bacon pilots but I was referring to the fact that I (and many others) slid down the seniority list and the chance of a jet command put back several years because the seniority lists were merged. If the same were to happen with the (alleged) BMI acquisition then there would be a lot of disgruntled (original) Flybe pilots.

Yeah yeah.... this sounds like a bit of a wind up from some of you Flybe guys. Too long in the cruise with nothing much else to do from the sounds of things! :}