7X7:

Thanks.
That´s more or less, what I presumed.
Just wanted to hear it from one of you mrats.

[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 03 June 2001).]

I have to thank you all for the very precise and most interesting comments you mrats made.
One of you mentioned expansion. Is this doubling of the fleet I read about true ? And if yes, how can they avoid DEC's ? This would undoubtly attract a lot of " bums " would it not ?
What I'd be interested to know and if this is not too much of a give away, is how you ended up in the sand pitt ?
Wonderbus, mein Gott ! Dich kann man überal sehen. Habt ihr so viele freie Zeit ? Wie geht's mit dem Streick ? Mach's gut.

[This message has been edited by wallabie (edited 04 June 2001).]

Looks like Emirates is studying the Singapore Airlines way: erode, alienate & dominate.It's true of SIA expat captains that they generally have no other opportunities, as most are late forties- fifties.Likewise, Emirates seems to revel in this situation, esp with the ex-disputers.Maybe EK guys will try the 777 based in Oz with SQ, from the fire to the frying pan i'm afraid.

Well...truth coming from everywhere! Thought I would add-on to the confusion.
It all comes down to the basics of offer/demand. As someone already said, management will get away with as much cutting as they can, until either manpower and/or safety are compromised (already happening?). Fact is, pilots at EK are not queuing to leave by the masses, and THERE ARE bunches of colleagues willing to join in, qualified and not. Just a downside of being AN EMPLOYEE.
Everyone's situation is different. Some of us have a good job back home, some don't, some have good prospects with their present employer, some don't. What I want to get across is that EK it's not the best job in the planet (although mngmnt. seems to think so) nor the Only one in the planet, but it's not the worse either...if compared to some of our er...options! (not many).
For the guys inside: Bitching doesn't help a bit, and - in this case - neither does negotiating or writing nice letters. We are on our own, yeah, but we can also leave ANYTIME WE WANT, right?
For the guys OUTSIDE: Think about it carefully, weigh in ALL the feedback you can get from your pals in EK and compare it to YOUR situation, and no one else's.
Good luck!

Well... first of all thanks for all the info. Most of us complain and believe that the grass is greener on the other side but this sounds depressing. I truely considered EK to be a top company to work for - until now...
Best of luck

This is only half the story.

Emirates has over the years sacked many pilots on the flimsiest grounds. None of them had a chance at a fair hearing, even though the charges were sometimes laughable.

On top of that the system of "justice" is a joke. Something out of the middle ages, not a modern progressive country. If you are the victim of a crime perpetrated by a "local", you stand no chance at all. He will win every time. Read between the lines of the local press, it is heavily censored.

Does anybody from Emirates have a guess at time to command for somebody joining now? Also, is there a rumour of an announcement of a large order for new aircraft expected?

Thanks, camel trader

Wow!
I guess it is true then "all that glitters is not gold"
I have always dreamt of working for EK until I read this thread.
Good luck to all of you EK pilots, 'hope things will work for the better.

Is the bubble just about to pop? I think so. And this will eventually lead to a spiral descent.......

good luck out there.

I don't think the bubble will burst just yet. There is still a lot of expansion to come, and I do believe that Emirates is a good job and lifestyle. It has the potential to be GREAT. Unfortunately rules change, and they only seem to change to suite the company never the employee. That there are a lot of unhappy pilots now at Emirates is certain.

In the past the guys were thanked (a computer message when you sign on/off) for putting in the extra mile to help the Airline reach its next goal when it was short of crews. And that we did. Statements like "it's going to be a busy summer, please bear with us...." became only too familiar, but yet we all gave what we could because after all, if the Airline did well so would we. When it came to laying the chips on the table we saw exactly how gratefull the company was for our efforts. Exactly 2% grateful. This when everybody else got 5% and in some cases more!

Yes we want EK to do well, and yes we want to be part of a winning team, but it's hard to stay positive and focused when we are seemingly at best merely numbers in some beancounter's ledger.

This is one example, there are more.

It takes so little to keep morale up and people happy. Thanks to Richard, Frankie, Gareth, Eimer and the other Richard at crew scheduling - your efforts have been noticed!



[This message has been edited by Warlock2000 (edited 09 June 2001).]

Well said Warlock, and I second your statement.

Best Regards

If the situation is so bad the question has to be asked would you leave a shorthaul command based in Europe for Emirates if you had the chance again today?

Camel Trader. Why leave a command in Europe to join Emirates? That I do not understand!

Look at your present scenario and then look at all that has been written about EK. Make up your own mind based on the information at hand!

Regards.

I pop in every time I'm back from a trip and the number of posts gets higher all the time.
A lot has been sais about working and pay conditions.
What about life after work in Dubaï ? What do you guys do on your free time and what does family life look like with 50 C and 90 % humidity. You know, it's the same in summer in Arizona.
I don't think barbie is an option with a windstorm blowing ?

Air conditioned house to air conditioned car to air conditioned plane!! Most families leave Dubai and go home when it is at its hottest. For those that stay, family life revolves around the pool, beach and in my wife's case the phone but that is another (expensive) story.

Whilst it does get tooo.. hot in summer there are also a bunch of places to go for indoor activities including play areas for the little ones and even ice skating. As always, it costs money to entertain the troops. A trip to one of the indoor centres will probably run to 100Dh+ for the average family and this starts to add up as the summer wears on; but you have no alternative.

Don't get the wrong impression, Dubai does have a lot to offer year round, even though it is hotter than the face of the sun in summer. The snag is that when all the entertaining is done, it will cost an average family more money living in Dubai than in a more developed country.

The powers that be have forgotten that the guys that come to Dubai are ex-pats and as such need to save money so that when they return home (and they have to by law) they can buy a house and can retire reasonably comfortably; otherwise what is the point!

An FO's salary doesn't crack it, a Capt's salary is better. Most people haven't been here long enough to complain too much, but the trend is worrying. 40% inflation, 10% payrise over 10 years what will the future hold. Being an optimist I hope someone will see sense, otherwise there may well be a mass exodus in a couple of years and that would be sad.

By the way the difference between Phoenix and Dubai is that Phoenix is 'kin hot but dry whereas Dubai is 'kin hot and 99% humidity! The weather in Phoenix beats the !!!!! out of Dubai in summer, trust me.

Ghost

I have been following the posts with great interest, and I firmly believe that the Co. has made a big mistake by offending rather than commending the pilots and other staff with such a low increment. As an engineer with EK for a long time i have flown with EK pilots as well as pilots from other airlines and I have found the EK bunch to be extremely profesional and the best around.
The Engineers in EK have no hope at all at any improvements unless the chaps at the sharp end are looked after.
Best of luck chaps!

What will happen to Emirates when the oil in UAE runs out, (which it will fairly soon). I know they are trying to focus on tourism but surely that can only take them so far.

Gentlemen/Ladies,
Some facts:-
Pilots are NOT leaving in SUFFICENT numbers to gain the attention of the "brass hats" yet.
Not ONE pilot has left for Singapore Airlines based in Oz,yet.
Pilots from all over the world,with all types of experience are still applying.
Until ANY of the above change,the senior management will continue to expand EK,with the willing support of Flt Ops management,who have allowed our present state of morale to descend thus far.
The problem is not now,it will be in 2-5 yrs from now,unless the issues are addressed now,but as I said that is unlikely whilst the senior and experienced guys stay.
Simple really,and they on the 2nd floor know it.
EK still has plenty to offer,but it should and Im sure will get better eventually,good luck to anyone considering coming.
Ive never regretted it.
Rommel.

Excellent posting Rommel, nothing but the truth.
To those of you thinking about applying to EK, come over to DXB and SEE FOR YORSELF instead of listening to the moanin' n' gripin' some of our colleagues love doing, even when things go well. The truth is that with all its faults and wrongs, it is still the best job for expats out there, if it weren't we all would have ****ed off long time ago. Of course it's not Wunderjob anymore, but it is certainly not the worst either.
Has anyone mentioned that in all this whining that at the last pilot/management meeting there were 2 Ferraris and no less than 3 or 4 Carreras parked outside? Yes, they were pilot-owned! But money is not enough....right?
Y'all moaners stop bitching and let people make their own minds. Take your complains where something can be done about'em or else piss off back to where things are better!

Whoa Teco, calm down there boy. Tempers get short in the summer I know, but aren't you being a little shrill? Sounds just a bit defensive to me.

The problem with EK is that things are just not going to get any better. Those of us here for a while have nothing to look forward to. The financial deal has been eroded over the years, housing is becoming a joke (just look at the mess over CBV), rosters are tight and flights incredibly tiring. Do this for another ten or fifteen years? Why?

Now understand why my Ozmates are trickling away to Virgin Blue. Can't say I blame them. And by the way Rommell, SIA has not employed anyone for their Oz bases. Funny that.
Whether anyone from EK applied I don't know, but guys are going to VB for a fraction of the money.

Said it before, will say it again. If you have a reasonable job in your own country stay there. Don't leave home for EK, you will regret it.