Quick example of junior guys rosters on the 777........JFK-LHR OFF OFF OFF YUL-LHR OFF OFF OFF OFF JFK-LHR OFF OFF DXB-LHR OFF OFF TA OFF OFF SIM SIM SEP IAD-Carry Out (Thats one month) Another would be DXB-LHR OFF JFK-LHR OFF OFF DXB-LHR OFF OFF CAI-LHR OFF BOS-LHR OFF SIM SIM ABV-LHR OFF OFF OFF . Another one is LAD LHR - OFF OFF TPA-LGW- OFF OFF IAHLGW- OFF OFF DTWLHR- OFF OFF JFK-LHR OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF PHL-carry out. ( All these are from several months ago)

How is that compatibel with being reserve and having to be at LHR in 02 hrs if called?
I am European, please tell me I don't have to go sit out reserve duties at LHR airport:{ :{ :{ .

I read on this failsafe site more people stating averages of 5 - 6 trips a month. As a true optimist and maybe for ever in denial, I will nevertheless believe you!:ok:

And thanks maxy, roster examples like that are highly appreciated!

Cheerful greetz,

going off thread for a moment; TR wrote .........

The first 7 days are a week of FDOs (Fixed Days Off) Think of them as an extra weeks leave! Because even the most junior can bid for (and get) pretty well any stby block, the ability to select these extra weeks 'leave' can be really useful!

I agree - BUT beware . The company don't like this . Combined with their desire to get part timers to do reserve...the intention is to drop this 7 day FDO block. Grrrr!
Balpa have seemingly already rolled over and agreed!

How is that compatibel with being reserve and having to be at LHR in 02 hrs if called?
I am European, please tell me I don't have to go sit out reserve duties at LHR airport.

You can sit out reserve on the dark side of the moon for all the company care. But if the Company call you, and you fail to get to the car park in 2 hours, you may find you have some explaining to do.

Bit of confusion, between Reserve, and Home Standby here.

If you are on reserve, the company will call you in the evening to tell you if you are flying the next day. Alternatively, they may say; "Do a Home Standby tomorrow". If this is the case, then you need to be able to get to the car park in 2 hrs during the Standby period.......

Aha! Most of the time, they will thus give you a duty or the day off, right? Is it common to get a home standby? Any commuters over there with feedback on the problem?
(how long is a reserve period by the way - hope it's not all day)

maxy101,

When I look at these roster examples you posted, I have the feeling that you have at least some Saturdays or Sundays off each month. Maybe it\'s because I don\'t know how much time 1 trip takes, but still...:)
If that would be the case, I really can\'t see anymore what so many people complain about.;)

flya380

A Reserve Period lasts 28 consecutive days. Within that you will get 7 Fixed Days Off (FDO) notified before you start the Reserve Period. They may be a continuous block of 7 days (in LH, I think) or the first 5 days and last 2 days (usually) of the Reserve Period (Shorthaul).

The duties for the other 21 days are notified the evening beforehand and may be:[list=1][*]A trip[*]A Home Standby (HSB) with 2-hour report commitment. The duration of the HSB is wither 8 or 12 hours. Where you do the Standby from is up to you - the golf course works for me, it is the 2-hour to car park that is important.[*]An Airport Standby (ASB). Shorthaul only, usually from 0600-1200 at LHR.[*]Short Break (1 day off) or Long Break (2 days off). In the 21 day span you will get a minimum of 1 short and 1 long break.[*]A miscellaneous day off if they more than enough cover. Unless they tell you it is a Short Break in advance it doesn't count as one[/list=1]

You can express a preference with Ops for work/no work, short/long trips and they will try to help usually. One trick for Reserve Periods is to get your Sim Checks allocated in them, the day before your check cannot have work assigned on it by Ops, and in effect reduces the 21 available days by 3 (or possibly 4 if recurrent SEP training is also required).

Reserve for the "foreign" commuter
 

FlyA380

I fly Long Haul for BA and live on the continent so I have a little experience of the "commuting" problem vs Reserve.

Your 28 days of reserve start with 7 fixed days off, after that you are in the hands of the Company for 21 days. You are now "contactable" by telephone for a couple of hours every evening ( I don't have the rules to hand but 1800 UK time to 2000 UK time rings a bell - pun intended) and you can be assigned a duty the next morning - early, either a trip or Home standby ( the "2 hours to report" sketch).....

Practical problems for the long distance commuter should be obvious - if you are assigned a duty early in the AM ( perhaps being told at 8pm you have an 8 AM report), can you get to LHR in time? Home standbys can run from 6AM - can you be in position to report in 2 hours by that time?

On the subject of the 2 hours to Report sceanario - you can and will get called on the dot of two hours, it's happened to me on several occasions and a lot of the BA guys who commute decent distances by road even have been known to sit in their car, at a motorway services, mobile phone in hand so that they are "legal"...

SO.......somebody asked "please tell me I don't have to sit out reserve duties at LHR" well, if your commuting airline doesn't have any late night flights the answer I'm afraid is, in extremis, "yes".

When I do reserve I usually talk to our ops people and ask to be worked to death, ask to do trips if possible rather than standby, volunteer to do "back to back" trips, so you spend just one night at LHR between trips. I aim to work flat out, as far as legally possible, so that I discharge my obligation to do 80 hours of credit in the 21 days ASAP......

commuting
 

Thanks Wiggy;) .

I will get in touch with you again, when my search for easy lodging close to or at LHR starts in case of standby or back to back trips.

From where I live, there are daily BA flights to LHR. Can one with a BA badge simply hop on (like at Lufthansa/Alitalia/...)? Or is it not that simple:confused: .
I hope to be adopting BA as my commuting airline...

And just a thought: I checked the BA B777 destinations. By the time I will have been at all US and Gulf destinations - where I have NEVER set foor before - we'll be probably more than a year further. And by then, my seniority should be just high enough to get someting else from time to time:D . Who said life is terrible for a fresh B777 FO? I am looking forward to it:cool:

Sadly not. You don't get staff travel for your first six months.

You can "Interline" up to a point, although I'll leave that to a commuter to explain in detail.

and AFTER those six months?

You can buy unlimited ID90 tickets - all handled via the BA intranet. Access from home if you have a PC/laptop. You get all the login details when you join. Some locost airlines fares are about the same price. I recently flew LGW MAN with JET2 for £9 plus tax!

Dont think anyones mentioned seeded blind lines that are juist coming in where One trip is bid for at first roster bidding and then rest of roster allocated around at second stage, Its a great way to get days off because they cant give you trips 2 days before or after. I'm bottom of the 74 list and still get more control over my lifestyle than at any previous airline. It also looks like the 777 work will improve as the euro 76's go longhaul and look likely to go to the Gulf and E coast. And in 5 years (which will whizz by) you can change to something different, not many airlines give you that choice.

to fly or not to fly...
 

HM, the blind lines really do seem interesting. I may want to get me some of those when I actually make it on the line.;)


Something else: I heard somebody say that at BA (the guy did NOT fly there by the way), you cannot handfly unless completely established on final.:uhoh:
I am having a hard time believing that: there must be conditions under which you are allowed to switch AP, AUTO THRUST and FD off early in descent or approach, right?

You will be pleased to hear thats total rubbish. I regularly hand fly the 777 and thoroughly enjoy keeping my handling skills up to date. Visual approaches are allowed and I encourage co-pilots to do the same. The only restriction I place on myself is to maximise use of the autopilot for "busy" departures such as LHR with weather avoidance requirements and approaches under similar conditions (especially if feeling tired).

Flying with a brand new DEP tomorrow - nice to meet some of the new intake....................

The recommendation is to use common sense. i.e. If it's excessively busy, poor weather, etc. maybe best not to. There are some fleet specific restrictions on use of the autothrottle whilst manual handling (not that I necessarily agree with them) but I would advocate handflying at every opportunity.

Believe it or not, it's not permitted to take out the autothrottle on the Airbus or the 777. Mind you, neither have a pitch-power couple (in theory!). :rolleyes:

I will go along (and probably fly along one day too) with ETOPS on this ;) .

I fly the Airbus A320 for 5 years (B737 before that) now, and nearly always - weather and cirmustances permitting - with everything switched off during descent/approach to keep my handling abilities as high as possible. (and for the FUN of course!)

A new company, new rules: that is clear and understood, but I am very glad that at BA, this will still be possible. (Though I understand that after 10hrs flight, I will not always be up for it:\ ) Imagine only flying 5 or 6 times a month, and only from 300ft down to the runway. It wouldn't take long to lose your skills that way I think.

I am more and more looking forward to my 777 course.:cool:

Anything else I should know?

Take the lunchtime management chats with a pinch of salt! :suspect: :suspect: :suspect: :E

Join BALPA or if already a member get the forms to transfer deatils at your induction.

Don't take any **** from CSD's either.

That's good advice from N.N.....If you're not careful, you'll get walked over.

Good to see it.Don't take everything one person says as gospel. We are a very broad church in BA (to continue the ecclesiastical parallel). The job will be as exciting/boring/fulfilling/empty as you make it.

The destinations on the 777 are not as bad as are made out sometimes. OK, if you are very junior you might get more of the East Coast trips but if you are determined to have a good time, you will. There are plenty of amusing/intellectual/fun things to do in YUL, BOS, YYZ, EWR, JFK, etc., especially if you have never been there before. The 'triple' is a very friendly fleet so you can have great times in the most unlikely of places.

When you are junior, a reserve month can be quite exciting as you may be called out to a new destination or to ferry an empty a/c. (The RR powered -LR goes up pretty well in those circumstances!) There is no such thing as an 'average' month: they are all different in some way.

You will meet ex-cadets, ex-RAF, ex-stockbrokers, ex-doctors, etc. In fact, just like any other airline.

You're joining at the bottom but remember it gets better from here on in...

Enjoy.

"It gets better from here on in..."


Not strictly true.

It will until the retirement legislation comes into effect in Oct 06 and then progression and therefore lifestyle improvement will completely stagnate

BKB, but it's not as if your 2 ic of a garbage truck is it? :rolleyes:

Life is what you make it :}

Ok guys, thanks for all the info.
My cautiously posted topic has drawn so many nice answers and examples from you all, that I do seem to have a good idea of the life a junior FO in BA on longhaul might have.:ok:

Just for the record: I am on the believers side. For any given job, it will be possible to find negative stuff, but come on: ain't there so much more positive things about being a pilot, and certainly at an airline like BA? The future will not be perfect, but definitely bright and I plan to be in the light with a smile on my face.

:D ;) :cool: flyA380

PS: Aircrafts are full, a pilot shortage is glooming at the horizon and the industry is gearing up to a great 2006. Good!
And in aviation it is impossible to say intelligent things about this bussiness 10 years from now. Is captaincy something you won't get before another 20 years? Will you be stuck on your aircraft forever at the same place? Will BA buy A380's sometime? NOBODY KNOWS!
So let's not be bothered with it and enjoy our great profession.

Nice to hear an optimistic view of the profession for a change, one which I share. See you on the 777 soon.

The trouble with a lot of the BA moaning that goes on is that a sizeable number of BA pilots have never worked for any other airline. Therefore they have a very strange attitude as to what they think BA owes them.

A reality check into the real world not wrapped up in cotton wool would do some good. The others that wind me up are the ones who moan about time away from home. We are pilots for Christ sake.If you want to be at home every night change jobs.

That's not to say BA doesn't have its issues but compared to most outfits its the dogs ********. Its just that from the inside and with nothing to compare it to people can get a bit precious.

Good luck to all those joining. If you have come from Charter/LoCo/cowboy outfit you will think you will love it because lets be honest chaps....

Its still the place to be ahead, still of Virgin, who I would say come in a comfortable second.

Anyone who says they don't want to work for either of them has either failed selection or doesn't quite get it

Normal Nigel,

I don't wanna work for either of them!!!!!

And if I had to choose it would defin be Virgin. Sorry but they are in a different class to BA. I have paxed in both many times, Virgin makes the experience enjoyable rather than a drag.

I'm at a charter outfit. I targeted the charters so I can have the best of both worlds, short and long haul. (Prob like the good old days at BA with 757/767 ops. Prob not long to go before they are finally phased out)

My long haul trips will be of a decent duration. There are some bullets and there are also some week long stays cos thats the only flight of the week. Sadly minimum rest seems the norm now at BA and VS, hence no interest in being constantly knackered.

So you see there are some peeps out here who do look beyond BA and VS. and who can also claim to be sane.

See you by the pool.

ATIS

Well if you also like night Larnaca's and back most weeks then fair enough.

Also judging an airline as an employer by how they are as a passenger is not really relevent. the fact is there is fence looking over both ways between BA and VS but more Red to Blue.

I'm sure many charter airlines are good to work for but they are all **** to fly on, however much they dress it up.

Shellsuits rule.


One point of order.

That would be the same 767 fleet curently going through a cabin refit and then converting 4 more to LH config with the real prospect of the last 3 following?

NN

True you can't judge an employer by the way that the pax are treated.

I'm sure BA is great to work for. ££££££££'s being one point. However you can't help feeling concerned with the ever increasing amount of negative comments that arise from BA.

One such long haul flight that I took pre 9/11 was a big eye opener.

Thought I'd pay a visit to 747 flightdeck. First I asked the cabin crew who were chilling in the galley. One instantly replied by "Why do you wanna go up there for, the Cpt is a ****** which resulted in a bundle of laughs by the rest of crew.

I eventually made it up there, and had a pleasant chat with the flight crew. Cpt then leaves the flightdeck for call of nature. Cue slaggin off of Cpt.
F/o obviously had a lot to get off his chest. He told me that he was returning to his previous airline cos he couldn't stand being stranded downroute with so many *******.

Now I know that bloke was 1 of 3000, but it does make you think.

Another previous poster talked about not taking any **** from CSD's.

If thats what the atmosphere is like forget the ££££££'s.

One example is hardly sound foundation to judge a company.

The problems that occur with people are inevitable with a company with over 17000 aircrew.

BA does have its problems. They are not all unique to BA but may be magnified due to the size.

99% of the time working at BA is a very pleasant way to spend your working life with the best salaries and best rostering system in the UK and one of the best in world aviation.

Certainly the choice (with a bit of seniority) is unrivalled or so I'm informed. Also a "free" bid and the chance to change aircraft every 4 years is also a great benefit.

Despite the pension and time to command (potentially worse post 2006) BA still has more to offer than most.

What we need to do is keep plugging away at improving the niggles.

BA....
 

ATIS et al,

As someone who has recently jumped ship from a rather large UK charter outfit to Big Airways, I’m perhaps in a more appropriate position to comment than some.

I too heard many of the rumours and BA bashing comments before joining, and I have to say, many of them made me think twice! However, with 20/20 hindsight, I cannot agree more with n_n's post that most of the bitching emanates from those who know of nothing else outside BA.

I'm not suggesting BA is prefect for one moment, and there are elements of my previous company that I still prefer. For one, I don't think that the actual flying is quite as much fun - although the destinations are just as varied (Eurofleet LHR anyway).

However, all in all, I don't think there is a comparison. When I moved, my pay increased substantially, I get more leave, more days off, MUCH better roster stability (and my previous package was at least charter industry average). And all this considering that I’m the lowest of the low here at the moment (well, nearly).

Cabin crew too, I have to say, have totally defied the mould so far for me. I find them generally more friendly than in the charter world, and GENERALLY have a bit more about them! Yes, they can be rather militant in terms of their work practices, but that is more the fault of the system in my opinion. And just to round it off, the guy's I sit next to are a great bunch (in 99% of cases anyway!).

There are definitely elements of BA that would make it unsuitable for some. But for those that are interested, please take a lot of what you read here with a pinch of salt and do some thorough research of the facts!

Regards,

C_8

All well and good slating that charter guys but I see BA are doing some nasty night flights ex LGW, which is bad enough, but long night flights on a B737 -- Lovely !

"for example, if you join on the 777, your basic in year 1 will be £42841. Your pensionable (which BAMPS is based upon) is £32130"

Slightly old quote, but I was wondering: is "basic" the same as "gross yearly income"?
Reason being that I (surprisingly) make considerably more at my local LoCo (okay, I'm a captain).
What am I missing here? Is there a steep pay increase after a few years or an hourly bonus?

I'm a BA DEP applicant and I'm trying to paint myself a complete picture.

Thanx for any info!

New joiner (Longhaul) can expect ~£57000. On a full months flying expect to take home over £3600. Expect that to go up by £200 a month every year (assuming BALPA negotiate a 2.5% rise on top of the agreed payscales).

psuelight,

The £42841 is your gross basic pay (before tax). On top of that you will get flight pay (£9 per flying hour) and Time Away From Base pay (£2.64 per hour away from base). Expect around £1200 per month net for a full month's work on the 777.

In practice, your allowances are about the same size as your monthly tax bill therefore your take home will be about the size of your gross basic (give or take). So expect to see about £3600 per month in your bank account.

HF

Having been on the triple for a while (years) I would offer the following personal opinions on the company and fleet,

great airplane
great cabin crew, (assuming you treat them as respected professional colleagues)
great flightcrew
hard work regardless of position on list
and in the 2 'private life' issues that i have endured the company management have been understanding,supportive and all i could have hoped for,

welcome to all newcomers - its a fantastic place to be :D

Thanks a lot guys,

that sounds more like what I was expecting.

As a juniorish 38ish 737NG captain I make about €84000 gross, about €3700/2500GBp. net monthly (excluding 1-8% profitsharing and 8% gross vacation pay).
So moving to a BA Triple7 would definitely be survivable financially, any ideas about BA B737 pay?

Thanx a lot and sorry for the ignorance,
any other comments appreciated.

737 pay is a couple of grand per year less, can't remember how much exactly. Allowances will be marginally less as well but not by much. You should see over £3000 per month take home.

Are BA recruiting pilots at the time being?

Thanks
AF 404