Air Deccan contract ?
 

Rice and curry !

I am considering a contract with Air Deccan on A320... that is there has been no terms presented yet. Has anyone been on contract or signed a contract recently ? And what are the general conditions and lifestyle working for Air Deccan ? :rolleyes:

Facelac,
Not with a bargepole!

They were playing several agencies off against each other and still wouldn't accept the lowest of the low rates offered.

They wouldn't put a month's money per pilot up front to an agency thus the agency wouldn't be in a position to guarantee the pilot a monthly salary, indeed any salary!

They attempted to steal addresses from agencies to contact the pilots themselves and offer then, reduced salary, direct employment, they have one A320 Captain there on USD4,000 per month.

They have some ex Army chappie there in charge of recruitment, never flown a commercial aeroplane but likes to call himself 'Captain' and the head of Flight Ops is even worse.

And all this going on whilst they have up to 5 A320's grounded due no Captains and 30 more A320's on order. One good thing though, last heard they had 5 A320's, expected to fly early morning until late evening, but only had 5 Captains, where else will you get to write your name on the side of an aeroplane!

What security will you have if you go, if you don't get paid then you complain, if you complain then you get deported I guess!

Beware,
Most of us have been on contract where we were not paid as per contract conditions.
In some cases not even at all.
I dont know anything about this company but I do know that if they ever screwed anyone over before they will do it again.
A good company always pays its employees.

Thanks for input Phileas Fogg

Sounds quite "exotic" . Hope the Army-guys likes to see the fleet lined up on the apron as they have been used to. Risky to sign individual contract I suppose ... and USD4000$ without housing !! Must improve to get crews I guess ?

Beeing at it let me mention that Windjet (based on Sicily) is a company to stay away from too. Management and ops like Vueling and permanent crews are trying hard to improve agreement now with growing production - ongoing legal action from both parts - while management is trying to get replacements for the permanent guys.

Rgds

Are there positions for FO's as well? Or are they just short of Captains?

Cheers

Poontang,
They are short of Captains, money, work practices and passengers.


Passengers stranded as carrier puts flights on hold

KOLKATA: No-frills carrier Air Deccan, on Wednesday, announced the sudden withdrawal of services to the city. Nearly 120 passengers booked on Thursday's flight are now left in the lurch. This is the second instance of Air Deccan suspending operations for a prolonged period at short notice since starting flights to Kolkata a couple of months ago.


Though Air Deccan offered no explanation, sources said the Chennai-Kolkata-Chennai sector had been summarily dumped after one of the A-320 aircraft in its fleet was grounded. "On Sunday, a plane hit a boarding ladder while taxiing for take-off in Mumbai. Though it did operate for the day, it was subsequently grounded for inspection and repair. As a result, the Chennai-Kolkata-Chennai sector had to be sacrificed," an official said. There were two reasons behind the decision to drop the Kolkata flight. First, it was less remunerative than other metro sectors.

Second, being the only flight in the eastern sector, removing it made sense. "Plucking out a flight from another sector to service Kolkata would have further jeopardised operations. This decision caused the least disruption," an airline source said.

It may be so for the airline. But for passengers booked on flights the cancellation has wrecked havoc in their schedules. While the carrier will refund the fare, many who need to urgently travel to Chennai could get stranded.

The "now on; now off" operations on the Kolkata-Chennai sector has left passengers as well as the travel/trade industry miffed. While they acknowledge that technical glitches can occur, what they don't agree to is the absence of an exigency plan.

"The carrier must augment its fleet and start operations in the sector when there's a degree of confidence to service it properly. Sudden suspension of operations erodes passenger confidence," a travel agent said. Aviation industry experts, however, pointed out that such risks were part of the low-cost airline business.

"Unlike regular carriers, they cannot afford to keep a buffer aircraft. That would jack up costs," an aviation industry source said.

Dear Mr Fogg

Looks like Monsieur Passepartout is upto his old tricks again!


*****
And all this going on whilst they have up to 5 A320's grounded due no Captains
*****

Considering that I am seing one of their aircraft taking off everyday for the past few months - what you mention can't exactly be true is it???

They have five a/c of which the last two are just going to start commercial service from 28th.

Of the other three, yeah one has been out of action for some time this month. But that I understand was more due to the driver of a ground vehicle deciding to check out the structural integrity of a wing tip with predictable results!!!

And as far as lack of passengers - again I think some one's imagination is boiling over! The latest government statistics show that Deccan was almost on par with Jet as far as load factor goes. And most of the time if I try to fly them at short notice, I dont get seats either.


Let us face the facts, they are India's first LCC, started August 2003 with ATR 42s, at a time when every one laughed them off. Now we have every one slashing fares and introducing Etickets here in this part of the world, not to speak of a few more LCCs in various stages of launch (Kingfisher/Spice Jet et all) thanks to Deccan taking off.

I dont have any idea about the flying conditions et all, but they most certainly are not short of passengers neither are all the 320s grounded!

(up to 5 A320's grounded)

neither are all the 320s grounded

Rsoman,
Try reading what I said, I never said that all A320's are grounded. So, if there is no shortage of manpower then why are they advertising on FI website and using every dirty trick in the book to recruit Captains?

I think if you have a look, at the right time during the day, on the ramps at BLR & MAA you will find some of their A320's parked. They are repeatedly accepting applications, oh come to India Captain, we have a job for you but won't enter into dialogue regarding T&C's, salary etc.

Phileas Fogg

I think I owe you an apology and I have no hesitation in tendering one.

I happened to subsequently interact with airline in question and found that these are the worst sort of penny pinchers. And after having announced with much fanfare about the launch of services of the new A320s ,taking in many (including myself) , for the past many days one aircraft is permanently on the ground (as confirmed by their website (check flight information)

Without doubt these are one bunch of jokers! Not to forget that the parent company who promoted the airline had a helicopter accident which was directly attributed to pilot incomptence (ref : DGCA accident summaries at www.dgca.nic.in). Now they are also crying that another proposed start up is now poaching their pilots! (at the salaries they offer are your surprised???)

RS,

Thanks. Amongst a current fleet of something like 5 A320's they have the crewing for approx 1, if they bust the regulations then perhaps 2 but please note that the aircraft manufacture may be providing some of those pilots on a temporary basis. Air Deccan only have 1 A320 Training Captain of their own and it takes something like 100 sectors of line training to check-out a Captain in India,

If they just had one A320 parked then they could conceal it, if they admit to one being parked then in reality they have a lot more parked, in fact the majority of their fleet.

Yes, A320 & ATR pilots are going to other carriers in India, simply because they're offering a reasonable, even by Indian standards, salary, aren't trying to 'hoodwink' pilots into travelling to India to take up these positions whilst refusing to discuss T & C's and are recruiting via reputable agencies.

Try talking to the ex-army chappie at Deccan via email or phone, he's downright rude and thinks he's the first one to ever try to 'hoodwink' a pilot or agency. Perhaps Deccan will learn one day, probably be the same day that the lessors start to repossess their A320's & ATR's!

RS, but what salaries are Deccan offering, they won't discuss these with the pilots, are they actually offering a salary, where can this information be sourced and of course, if they employ the pilots directly then they will need to pay (a lot of) Indian tax.

A320:

1 training captain? only? strange.... and saw a 320 parked in Bangalore the other day.

Atr 42 :

Look like they fly a lot and no airplane grounded:hmm: Am I wrong?

My indian colleagues not interrested to go there due to very low salary and very bad working conditions:(

30 a320 to come:O the show must go on:}

I had a chance to talk to both Jet and Air Deccan recently, both for ground based jobs. Never made it to Jet at the end, but frankly I was impressed. The interview was professional (after a thorough screening test one month prior) and the interviewers went in depth, and systematically on the subject trying to draw out the depth of your knowledge. You walked out feeling good (although a little disappointed naturally that you finally did not make it).

Deccan was a different cup of tea altogether. First they make come all the way to BLR from HYD (at my own expense - after all they are a LCC, arent they?) only to tell me that they dont have vacancies at entry level (now why they couldnt understand this from from my CV before calling me all the way is something I couldnt understand) . While I am on the way back they call me again that another of their honchos now want to talk . So I make my way back a few days later (again at my own expense) goes through an interview basically consisting of nothing but why I want to leave my current job and how much I want for the job with them and then am asked to call after a few days. I call back and the feedback is that beig a LCC they cannot "afford" to employ me!

I did ask how much they could "afford"- The answer was 175 Pounds a month! Not surprisingly I said NO when I would have to spend half of that on housing alone (BLR is one of most expensive cities in India) not to forget the fact that I spend 15 Grand (Pounds) on my qualifications!!!! Ah! Before I forget , there was another valauable feedback from the interview (and I am not joking) - YOUR PARTING HANDSHAKE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH (after all your are speaking of colonels and captains here!)

Now that there is feedback in the thread from both the flying and ground based areas, I can only join Phileas Fogg in requesting everyone to please think twice about going ahead in investing time and effort to interview with this set up. I took a big risk taking two days of unauthorised absence from my curent job not to speak of expenses from my own pocket amounting to something like 20 % of my monthly pay check and finally all this came to nothoing.

And if you do decide to go for it, please dont forget to PRACTICE YOUR HANDSHAKES!!!


Good Luck!!!

yyzdub,
Foreign pilots are not changing airlines, they've never started with Deccan because of the appalling recruitment tactics thus they are free to go wherever they like.

And it is 30ish A320's and 30ish ATR's, just wanting to set the facts straight of course. No pilots, no capacity to train pilots but 60ish aircraft on order ..... Cool:ok:

But of the 12 how many are provided by ATR/Airbus as an interim arrangement? By the way finally they got all five 320s on the air (if their website is to be believed) yesterday after a long time.
And Jet Airways is merrily dumping surplus capacity in many of the Air Deccan's routes at fares comparable to them . Remids me of the Peoples Express saga.....

Also reg pilots changing airlines, this is about Indian pilots switching over.

As some of them (ATR foreign pilots) seem to be Central/South American, I would suggest none from TLS

There is a solitary Colombian A320 Captain there earning USD4,000.00 per month.
There are 2 Airbus Industries TRI's, Deccan have their own solitary A320 Training Captain & Postholder but, and no joke, he has been in hospital from overwork.
I stand to be corrected but there are no agency pilots with Deccan because Deccan refuse to guarantee a contract or indeed a salary, Rishworth's were to provide pilots but the cheque(s) didn't arrive in the post etc. etc. etc.
A few pilots, as stated, ain't going to operate a fleet of 70ish aircraft and where will the training capacity come from to provide initial and recurrent training?

And for the ATR setup-is it just as bad as the Airbus, and how is the living standards like in Bangalore?

Bangalore is a great place to be, provided you have the salaries to enjoy it! It is the IT capital of India but that also means that since the average per capita income of the salaried class is high (compared to other Indian cities) , the cost of living is also proportionately higher.

All the Middle East, European airlines are looking for A320 Capts etc etc, how the hell does the "Capt" of Deccan, really plan to attract pilots for contract jobs, whilethe jobs in Gulf are permanent and offer a better deal.

Big Brother if you are REALLY watching, learn some thing from Jet Airways and hire airline professionals to run your co not, X army, air force chaps to run a LCC.

any recent & fresh news from the AIR(deccan)
bye

Yup I have news. There is one Agency out there for the moment, who has wangled a deal, via, via, not just with Deccan but with another couple of Indian Carriers as well and it is a very very good package.

It is one Agency who selects their clients and if they dont pay the price walk away. I believe this Company realise that there is a shortage of pilots and has had the guts to adjust the market accordingly.........:ok: :ok: About time too.... if you ask me.

hi stok
can you tell me the name of this agency?
is it sigmar? aeropersonnel? PARC?
bye

Most Unprofessional
 

I went for the Deccan F/O's selection procedure iin May at BLR. IT WAS A TOTAL HOODWINK . The written exam was no where near any standard.... they held the exam for the purpose of fulfilling an obligation towards the DGCA to have a so called proper procedure for induction. Anyways , EVERYONE who wrote the exam was called , no matter whether u got one quesiton right or all of them right. Then at the interview stage , the called as at 10:30 am and ended up holding the interview at 13:00 hrs.
The guy in the interview Narayanan , was totally arrogant , he thought he was the CEO of a company like one the first rung carriers like CX or EK or QF . They did not ask me a single question related to aviation , in fact the 1st question was can you pay Rs10,00,000 /-- for the ATR 42 Endorsement cost. I had already decided to say no. It was not even worth the experience of going for the interview which costs the train ticket and accomodation costs. My advice to anyone looking to join DECCAN , is DONT unless ure living from hand to mouth.

cheers
vimd23

Hi Jumpdrive......... yup it a UK Company beginning with C.
Read another thread about Sigmar, on PPRUNE, I think they are a start up or something , nothing good anyway although we all have to start somewhere I suppose. Just that you need a bit of muscle and knowledge behind you with some of these dodgy contracts. I have worked for this 'C' company before, on loa.
Tough lady no b.........t if you know what I mean.:)

Tell Deccan to & *#@ OFF ! I second you Vmid23, this place is a joke. They have a real shortage of pilots and still give this kind of attitude.

Dont worry Kingfisher, SpiceJet, and JETAIRWAYS are all taking in Indian CPLs get your act tight study hard and you will get a job in these real airlines and not Deccan.:yuk: :yuk: :mad:

If you're trying to tell us this agency is Contractair I think I will die laughing!! Do a search here to find out the truth about them

No one agency has cornered the Indian market and that is FACT. The Indians would never restrict themselves to just one agency, it's not how they work.

Very true Clipper ! Shop around for jobs in India you will get what you are looking for.

Clipper One. I didnt say that whoever the Agency is has an exclusive deal, I said they had wangled something..... read my mail again. I dont know how many agencies are there, but must presume you are an Agent to react so strongly.
Die laughing ,my friend then watch a few new entries into these Airlines and find out who they are with and what is the deal.....?? I know the deal for one Instructor going there, and it is top notch. Think you would eat your words if you knew. But of course shop around.... nobody is disputing that....... If I could get loa I would be off like a shot.......... By the way I do know that they only want Instructors though......... Only one way for you to find out mate eh???:ok:

Where did I react strongly?? I would have said the exact same thing if you had said PARC, Sigmar, IAC, Rishworth etc etc...I'm certainly not an agent and I would never go near one unless I absolutely had no other choice. Whats the point? Giving away part of your salary every month?? For what? So they can make one or two phone calls where you could just call yourself?

My point is all these agencies are exactly the same!! They offer nothing new, there is no differentiation between them. They all have to choose from the same body of pilots.

And above all, if the **** hits the fan, each and every time who do you think the agency sides with??

Well well Clipper....... I would have thought by the way you reacted that you had had a bad experience with one, but as you would never go near one unless you really had to then you are not ( If I may say so without causing undue offence) be in a position to comment. There are good and bad out there true, but I have only positive things to say about the two I have ever worked with and it was nice to have their protection and support when things were not going as they should. Anyway Mate glad for you that you obviously have a full time sercure position and dont need the Agencies as some people do. For some it suits, and this is going away from the topic of the thread which was Air Deccan. And as I previously mentioned it appears that they dont all have the same deal which is where I started. But, if you don`t need to go and work there then shouldn`t worry you should it, but if you are going to work there best to make sure that you get the best deal and the best support....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

This is an honest question Stokken,

Do they really support you?? How far can they go in supporting you, really.

You know as I do, how pilots talk and I have only ever heard negative things about these agencies. I just don't see the point. Why not just go directly?

For example, you see an ad on an agency website for a position "with a carrier in Taiwan". You don't have to be Einstein to work it out so you go to the airlines website and it's careers section and there they are advertising for pilots to apply!! I mean why go through an agency for something like this?

Sorry man, I just can't see the point! But maybe in the future, you never know, I may HAVE to use one! So in that case, who are the best in your opinion and who are the ones to avoid? I have heard the Hawaiin crowd are good but this IAC agency are shocking. I read here an open letter from a desperate pilot and he didn't even know their address as they didn't have one! Some vague area in Fiji he thought....

You should not worry about a " place like India" most of the CEOs & managment pilots of the new airlines are all xpats.

Other than that pls read up on India before you plan to take up a job there, rather than cry about it, its as safe as any other xpat location and yes much much better than Vietnam and the lot.

Doesn't surprise me about the recruitment army guy "Captain".

I had a DFO in a neighbouring South Asian airline with no ATPL (go figure the CAA!) and a new F/O's position who called himself CAPTAIN and ran around with 4 shiny bars introducing himself as Captain ......... MFO / DFO (& bar?). Std in this part of the world I'm afraid - what a joke! They often have far more interest in titles, flash uniforms and image than competency and respect of sub-ordinates / colleagues.

As for the contract and their dishonest techniques - follows on from above. My advice - don't touch anything in South Asia unless its through a known agency or you have $ up front. Preferably with good accom provided (a known hotel chain). Dealing with local landlords or believeing employer promises about "expat" std accom is (in my experience) very risky.

Honesty is not such a strong value there... You have been warned!

:\

I agree on evrything all you guys have said
its true, they just call you the 1st week you reach them, and then nothing, seems impossible to receive back a phone call.
talking bout the option of going straight, it depends, as some have already said, on the company, or even the country, of what heard, Deccan doesnt want to take into their hands hiring and selection of expat captains, only Sigmar and aeropersonnel are the agencies dealing with AD
Have friends flying all over the world, some through agencies and some direct employed, they tell and compare both sides, and then again, you have advantages and in some dont, i have worked so far in 2 airlines over the past 16 years, and both have been directly employed, deccan would be the 1st to be through an agency.
wich way better, hard to say, if your hired in an airline directly, you would have to deal with taxes, housing, transportation, almost everything, on the other hand through the agency, all those items are covered during your contract.
and even some agencies like hawaii aviation, they dont take care of taxes, dont give you house, instead they give you $2000 and then you have to go shopping for a roof
theres a lot out there to decide, one thing for sure is the money
6000 of the greens for an ATR, agency or not, geez thats a lot
tell it to the guys flying PIC 737NG or 767 for less
and it makes them wonder or think it twice, and their flying for nationals
well like I said theres a bit for all of us to make up our minds
keep the faith
:ok:

Let's just say, there was an A320 Captain, directly employed by AD on a salary of USD4,000 per month.
Once he realised that AD were taking the p1ss he tendered his resignation. At that point, somewhat conveniently, AD mislaid his passport and it took them some weeks to relocate it, of course all this time he had to continue flying for them.
That's direct employment, or indeed any employment, with AD for you!

YYZ,
I can't divulge my source or how I obtain such information but I can assure you that it is very factual.
PF

YYZ,
My facts, examples as you refer to them, are so factual that I can even tell you that he was of Colombian nationality.

Are you on the ground in Bangalore 365 days a year or are you just protecting your, Sigmar's, most valued client from the apparent, defend them at any cost, stance that you take on any occassion when someone dare say a word out of place against either?

So, AD are the perfect airline, they pay the best salaries, they don't bull!!!! anybody, they pay all their invoices on time, not a single day late, they don't mislay passports, their one A320 Training Captain was not in hospital from overwork etc. etc. etc. Yep they're great!

Are you happy now YYZ, I've read your book of BS, now I'm brainwashed like you also!

PS.
YYZ, I'm surprised you've got time to post during your office hours, shouldn't you be running around looking for that VIP B767 crew out of Jordan, like every other agency is, for this Saturday? Chop Chop!

YYZ,
You seem very intent in turning this into a childish slanging match, please excuse me if I refrain from playing your games.

I have not repeatedly or continued to slander Sigmar, I made, I recall, a solitary post, you responded and I left it at that.

I made a more recent post regarding AD, you interfered, what the **** has it got to do with you, you are merely a customer of AD, one can say what the hell they like about them and it's got diddly squat to do with you or Sigmar.

You're the one that brought Sigmat back into topic, not me nor anybody else so please stop posting your crap that I continue to slander your company, I don't!

You need to grow, stop reading into something that is not there and stop taking everything so personally.

PF - all one needs to do is do a search on your name in PPRUNE and it soon becomes obvious as to who you work for and the reputation you and that company has. Again, please don't use these forums to tell lies about us to make yourself look better. It's easier to accept the fact that you win some and you loose some - it's called business. And instead of constantly slandering and slagging, you should use the time to find new business - as you say, Saturday is just around the corner.

YYZ,
Shut up, so I work for Sigmar, Air Deccan, Astraeus, Storm, Brookfield, Jet Airways, Biggin Hill Airport, Bromley Court Hotel, Rishworths, John Travolta, EU Jet, Manston Airport, Emerald Airways, East Midlands Airport, Imperial War Museum Duxford, Sky Europe .............

Get a life!