Excellent post rat - I could not agree more. We need to show some resolve and get this matter sorted once and for all. I have another 30 years to go and I would like this to be a decent job. Surely that must be worth fighting for.

Pete

If you're resigning - goodbye! Your attitude just about sums up what's wrong.

If some guys put in half as much effort into getting things sorted as goes into moaning about everything possible - life and work would be a breeze.

The CC won't answer you're questions here.

Ask the on the Balpa forum, or email them to any CC member.

Then they will be answered - if you can bothered to listen!

once again the arrogance of the company council comes to the fore. That's just the sort of attitude that will always guarantee you never get 100% membership. I'm beginning to wonder if its really the management we should be worrying about or BALPA?

Wizo,

Badly phrased, if we have the new system I would be loathed to take my GDOs in one block as a replacement for leave as I would need to retain the flexibility to guarentee certain days off as the year progresses.

Either way GDOs they claim back, leave they don't!!

RAT 5, i thoroughly i agree with almost all of your post, but am unsure about the 4/4 finish as late as you like and start before 6 bit. If you finish after midnight the next day is not a day off, and if you start before 0600 the previous day isn't a day off, surely? that's not 4/4 that would be 6/2.

I like your philosophy though. I can't help spotting a similarity between this thread and the problems with another Loco drifting ignorantly towards industrial strife as BALPA don't seem to be able to represent the membership's feelings and aspirations.

Rat5s proposals do have a number of holes in them.
1. You couldn't work 2 days / 2 nights as most of the 2 day flights would be earlies, hence 4 consecutive early starts / late finish duties. Secondly the gap between second day and first night will infringe the 18-30 hour rest restriction. Not a hard and fast rule but is frowned upon by the Spanish Inquisition!
2. As max nightstop has pointed out, it would end up as 6 days on 2 days off. Fine if the roster can remain as published, but it is too open to amendments / instability.

One question, was the EZY flying programme considered when the agreement was put together. You can have the best scheduling agreement in the world, but if the flights don't fit then it ain't worth the paper it's written on. Why not get a copy of the flying programme, build roster lines with patterns you would like to operate and submit proposals (and the patterns) to the company. There's no point pushing for things like 8 o'clock start after days off if all your wave 1 flights depart at 06:00!

Max N.S. & Big T.

Thanks for the comments, and I take your points. The good thing is that a "thinking man's" debate is taking place. All this mish mash of rolling a dice and thinkng of some numbers to design a roster pattern is really lacking in imagination. Trying to squeeze a schedule into some random sequence is the tail wagging the dog. It's an "off the peg, one size fits all" solution. Bespoke tailoring always works; always allowing some spare cloth for later in life adjustments.

I hear comments about LPL & EDI and other bases liking 5/4/5/2, or that some bases have shcedules that do not allow this or that pattern.

WHY SHOULD ALL BASES HAVE THE SAME ROSTER PATTERN?

They have different schedules, so why not let each base have a tailored pattern? Why not let each base have its own rosterer at the base? It would take someone one day to make a roster for a base. Why have a centralised rosterer? LoCo's, and ej in particular, claim to have revolutionised the industry, but they are total dinosaurs when it comes to man managemenet, and that to most of us means rostering.

My suggestion about flexi days was not that they could be used in tandem; only one of the days off could be flexible, thus retaining a minimum of 3 days off. Further, this use of 'flexi-days' would be restricted to e.g. only once in a monthly roster period.
If 2 earlies 2 lates infriges the 3 consecutive 'night' rules that is not such a big problem. The 3rd or 4th duty could easily be adjusted to accommodate that rule.
As for the 18-30 rule; as you say it s a guide line. If the 3rd or 4th duty was adjusted to avoid the 4 night slots, this could also be respected. There will need to be some SBY's sometime during the month, and these will assist in obeying these rules.

The major problem with a fixed roster pattern of any sort is the attitude of the rosterer. They will roster days off and not duty days. Duty will just be used to fill in the gaps. Been there, done it. Life becomes very frustrating, inflexible and inefficient. Ultimately, with inefficient use of crews it must cost the company. It really is a LOSE LOSE.

Again! Think outside the box and don't just accept some tinkering. Be radical. And please don't fall into the trap of thinking 5/3/5/3/ is great and therefore 5/4/5/2 must be better. It is not true, but it will take years to change it once introduced. A little more time spent considering now, will reap massive rewards for long to come.

Remember there should be a SPIRIT included in any schedule. The battle seems to be how close the company can keep you to maximium and how many concessions you can achieve to keep from the edges. Is that really the best you can do???

This is not just about ej, but all airlines. The whole industry's in a mess. Each airline looking at each other's agreements and trying a little carrot here & there. It's rather like ticket pricing. A couple of euros cheaper will entice the pax; an extra day off per month will allow X to say it has a better roster than Y. BunKum.

RAT 5
Normal shift workers dont work 4 on 4 off. They normally end at 0700 so this would be 5/3 to a Pilot. Thats based on a 12 hr shift.
Other shift workers work shorter hours but end up doing lates / earlies and switch from lates into days or vv between their days off much like the proposed EZY offer, except to say it would be two days off not 4.
Some shift workers also work 2100-0530 Mon-Friday, rest day Sat single day off Sun then start all over again. Maybe EZY should adopt that one...

I agree with just about every point made by rat5. But after reading several comments, I feel the need to disilussion quite a few of you about one of your pet hates: rosterers.

No rosterer I've ever known has the power to make any political or otherwise decisions. They don't decide the schedule, they don't decide the crew numbers, or the bases, or what sbys are needed, or when the training falls, or where leave or days off go, or what would be a sensible roster. In fact, their opinions, whatever they might be, are mostly ignored. And ditto for their frustrations. They just get told to stop whingeing and to get on with it. They have no control over what happens at the beginning of the food chain, ie: recruitment, training, scheduling, bases, etc. As for the 5254, not a single rosterer was involved in its invention. Management were, yes, but not the lowly rosterers.

If your rosters are Sh**, tell your managers. If your base is undercrewed, tell your managers. Maybe if enough people complain, they'll start to listen, but I have a feeling pigs might fly first.

No one produces s**t rosters on purpose, and there's no such thing as hating the crew. Half the team at ej are ex crew! But if the basics are wrong, how can you expect miracles? If the wrong tools are provided, there's nought else to be done.

The fact of the matter is that the rosters are produced manually, cause the computer system cannot be trusted to do a decent job; the crew, aircraft and flight numbers keep on growing, but the department doesn't. Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that one out, does it? Unless something is done somewhere along the line, things cannot get any better, not out of despite, but because it's not humanly possible.

In short, there's a lot of sympathy for the situation, and plenty of experience and willingness to change things but no power. Can I suggest that the rants get directed at the right people? Management, directors, take your pick, you're bound to get it right.

Completely agree with EGUZKI.

A lot of frustration is taken out on crewing and OPS, but they can only work with the (very limited) tools they are given.

Creating an airline that treats it´s employees (all employees, not just flight crews) in a fair way comes from the top down.

It´s the management top (the ones who claim EZY is the Southwest of Europe) that need to listen to it´s employees a little it better. If they would do just that, EZY would be able to both cuts costs and at the same time improve profitability/productivity by creating a good working environment.

If some managers would only read a few books like "Nuts" and "From worst to first." :{

EGUZKI

I do apologise. I've re-read my post, and after reading yours it sounds unfair to lump you in with the "the other lot". I thank you for the time to comment and sympathies. My comments are aimed at the Head of rostering, i.e. the chief and not the indians.

However, I have worked for companies where the rosterer did drive the show. The change in patterns & life style was most marked when the head honcho was on leave; and that could be in either direction, good/bad/good, depending on which airline it was.

Should it not be beholden on each department to insist on the correct tools to do the job demanded of them? Perhaps that is what managers should be doing, but often it is those at the coal face who have the real knowledge. Is ej not supposed to be an open culture and a listening airline?

For Doug: my father had a plaque on his office wall, in what was a happy camp. "Remember, things always go wrong from the top, not the bottom!" Seems to echo your thoughts.

I did mention that to a few airline mangers, when they accused the crews of being the source of all the woes, but received blank stares. That was disappointing from our so-called leaders.

During the last 2 years it has all been written here on Prune. It would be sad to rehash it all again. The dreaded lurgy doesn't seem to go away.

Good luck to all.

I'm really not surprised about blank looks from anybody concerning "a plague on the wall".

You can discuss all pro´s and contra´s! I believe the mainpoint is the cut off in leave, what I´ve heared!
And 5 GDO´(which are not woth to much!) are not substituting one block of leave!
By the way, nothing seen/heared from BALPA here on the continent. (crewrooms)

Kraut & others.

This argument about 5 GDO's, or leave or whatever is a red herring.
With efficient rostering, which I presume both sides want, and with the monthly & annual lmits, these 5 days are a drop in the duty ocean and irrelevant. They will not be able to be used, productively, because crews will alreay have reached their limits.
This whole issue is about jealousy and trying to impose equality when not comparing apples & apples.

Do not try to win the leave or 5 GDO's argument. Go for something far more meaningful, the whole roster scheme.

Why is the company, and the crews, trying to design the type of strait-jacket which best suits their position? Such restrictions help no-one. It has always been stressed that flexibility is a requirement of the industry. Howvever, it always seems to be one-sided, and that is why crews want the predictability of their free time, and want to protect that. It can be a double-edged sword. What will happen, if at the last minute, you want a day off within your duty block? Will it be allowed to swop? Predictable, days off, & GDO's, can be nice to have, but how often do events crop up too late to request a GDO? Flexibility should be a 2 way street.

Mr. A from P. Shift workers, on the ground, are governed by EU worker's directives. They can be rostered and average of 40 hours per week. They have freedom of movement at work; they need rest breaks at work; they work in enviroemntly controlled conditions, generally work to a predicatable pattern etc. etc. Contrast that to crews who can be rostered upto 190hrs pm; do not have freedom of movement over a 12 hour shift; do not enjoy rest breaks away from their work station; do work to an unpredictable sleep changing pattern; do operate in a reduced hunidity and oxygen enviroment.

This point has been made many times before, and never answered: Over 12 years ago, when Kinnock was transport commissoner and the early phases of the workers' directive was being introduced, public transport was allowed a dispensation for a short period. During the time it would take for those industries to readjust and introduce some of the measures enjoyed by ground based workers, transport companies were instructed to create 'compernsation packages for their employees.
I have never met anyone who has benefitted from such packages. Can anyone inform us if any airline, or any transport company, has introduced such a scheme? I wrote to BALPA, ECA and a Eurpoean CAA about this matter in the mid/late 90's. No repsonse except from the Eu. CAA who agreed that something should be done, but that it was not their responsibility.
The national unions were not too concerned with anyone outside the national carrier, wherein they had agreements which gave some sort of compensation already in place.

This compensation would have included issues of the roster pattern, length of duty days and days off etc. If I am in error about this EU directive, will someone please correct me. If not, why have the national unions not insisted on its introduction? Surely your 1% would be better spent in that area; indeed it should be spent in that area. The unions have access to labour lawyers, who in turn should have no problem confirming if that directive exists or not. If it is true, I can't see how CAA's can dismiss their responsibilities to ensure an EU directive, related to their jurisdiction, is not introduced. They are tigers when it comes to inspecting maintenance paperwork & procedures. Why not the same vigor concerning their own rules on rostering?

This ej issue is in danger of resurecting all the threads, which started over 2 years ago, concerning FTL's and life styles across the board. It is a great shame, and deely disappointing, that no progress seems to have been made within the profession as a whole.

My parents´ neighbour is a truck (lorry for you Brits! ;) ) driver and when I hear about his ´duty regulations´ and how restrictive (and protective of employees) they are, I can hardy believe that we as pilots can work continuous for 10 hours or more hours without a single break.

My neighbour can hardly believe my schedules either and is shocked to learn that the people in charge of an airplane are worked this hard. He, like the general public, thinks that our duty regulations are even more restrictive and protective.

To my knowlegde BALPA is working on this issue, but it takes strong support from it´s members to get anything done.

That means that low cost airline pilots have to join some kind of union and that is where the problem lies. Most just can´t be bothered and are too cheap/lazy to join a union, but love to complain about the inability of the union to change things, which in turn it their rationale for not joining a union.

It´s a vicious circle and both current members and BALPA must work hard at trying to force a solution.

I remember another thread here on PPRuNe about ´pilots of low cost airlines endangering the public´ but I can´t find it.

As I´ve said before, BALPA seems to have completely given up of trying to recruit at those bases.

BALPA can learn a lot from the mistakes the pilots in Ryanair made by letting management divide and conquer them as FR has more continental bases and EZY is now also expanding across Europe.

Doug, and all others:

"To my knowlegde BALPA is working on this issue, but it takes strong support from it´s members to get anything done."

It's called leadership (or lack of). It's what no chief pilot, bar one, has had in my expereince; no airline management and definitely no union general secretary.
They have all be an abject failure for decades. The top men in each case were there for the glory and the power, not for the good they could do, whether it be to their representatives or the share holders.

Fuddle & muddle.

RAT 5,

You'll no doubt be standing for the CC and putting in the same amount of unpaid hours to correct this then?

Wiz,
I could be wrong but I don't think RAT 5 was including the CC in his statement, but was including the Union General Secretary. Considering the past general secretary this would be a fairly valid point.

Wizofoz:

The answer to both points is No. I quit the aggrevation some years ago, and like others found a suitable niche in avaiation and discovered another life hiding latently outside my roster.
I'm just trying to pass on a few snippets to others who feel themselves in the same boat, but with more time and future to do something about it. I tried, via 2 national unions & the ECA, to try and persuade them that something needed to be done, and offered comments, advice and the time to help. Stoney silence. I moved around testing various pastures, but there were no greener ones, so I looked outside the glamour, went a little on the wild & rough side, and put a smile back into aviation.

Good luck to those with time enough, and energy enough to keep at it.

Just think; if you do nothing the airline world will controlled by the likes of Lorenzo, the ex-bosses of Air Europe it. & Volare, indeed the ex-bosses of every potentially good airline that was led down the swany. Horrors, some of them are still lively enough to start up again. AGH!

Well......5/4/5/2 it is....:mad: :mad: :sad:

I have heard that of the 1000+ pilots in easyJet, only about 350 are BALPA members. If that is the case, and it is only what I have heard, then BALPA doesn't have much of a mandate in easyJet.

Discuss.

Mr Ree, Im afraid BALPA is the only show in town despite the low membership (whatever that may be!), I am told the company will only negotiate with BALPA, the rest of us dont matter. If you want a voice you need to join them!

Whatever we think 5/2 5/4 is a done deal so Im afraid we are going to be lumbered with it. All this nonsense from BALPA about lets accept it as it is and we can chip away at it; quite frankly is Horse:mad:
Do they really think the company will give things back, come on guys please, who is sh:mad: who here.

It seems some of the Base/Standards Captains have seen the light and decided to move on, perhaps thats the only option if you dont fancy the new deal.
:{

mr ree couldnt be further from the truth. But as a non-member, its none of his business. And dont tell me what to discuss... or are you really management?

This is the problem with BALPA. As a pilot at easyJet it is my business. In fact it is more than that. It is my life. I really cannot understand anyone saying that I have no business in what goes on in easyJET because I don't belong to BALPA. Frankly I despair at the quality of the representation that BALPA provides at easyJET. There seems to be a mix of bully boys and the mildly lunatic fringe with the notable exception of a couple of individuals who I do respect.

After every BALPA vote these past few years I have yet to meet anyone who voted yes. Yet the deals go through and the ezy pilot workforce again is overjoyed at the great deal BALPA has arranged. Not. Tony and his gang should come along and learn new ways to spin as BALPA has it down to a fine art.

To join BALPA costs a lot of money. A LOT. That's fine if the money buys the quality product. Sadly it doesn't. We keep hearing that the reps don't get paid. Hello!? What on earth are the subs going on then?

No, I'm not management. I just resent being manipulated by BALPA and management alike, that's why I belong to neither. As far as I can see at ezy there is very little difference between the two, and paying money to BALPA would seem to be another way of ezy management getting me to reduce my salary.



:*

Mr Ree,

I can hardly believe what I'm reading. You claim that you have an intense interest in the T&Cs at easyJet, and yet display a profound ignorence of the whole situation.

And when exactley was your salary reduced? The last negotiation led to a four per cent increase in our salary. As you didn't like BALPA negotiating that for you, I suggest you return it and negotiate your own increase. Would you like to tell me where else you could the same salary as at easyJet. Note my question. There are higher paid pilots, but where could you apply to tommorow and get better paid or, if you're an FO, have a quicker path to command.

I did, there's one.



The reps are unpaid and represent us voluntarily. Do you dispute this?? Subs go on things like legal representation, maintaining an office, staff and so on. By the way, if you ever end up on the wrong end of a legal proceeding arriing from your work, who'll be paying YOUR bills?

If you don't like the quality of BALPAs representation, then your not joining and standing on the sidelines whinging achieves exactley nothing. Your JOINING and helping to increase the number of pilots represented INCREASES the negotiating position BALPA holds.

I take it you will be opting for random rostering as you obviously prefer this to both the 6/3 and 5/4/5/2 pattern BALPA "Manipulated" you into.

wizofoz if your not a BALPA rep you certainly should be, you have certainly fallen for all the PR crap they put out.

I have no intention of arguing the pros and cons of joining BALPA however regarding the legal cover you are way off the mark, we all know that in the real world BALPA will cherry pick which cases they fight.....you f:mad: up your on your own.
Ask Dan Air guys or Air Europe how strong BALPA fought for them!.

Anyway keep believing :yuk:

wiz: oh dear oh dear oh dear. Ok, about 10 % of the pilots at ezy voted for the new deal. That's not really a lot. Obviously we have not met, because if we had you would have told me that you had voted yes on a previous vote (not missing your loyalty bonus are you?) and I wouldn't have been able to write what I did about not knowing anyone who had etc etc.

Ok, lets see: I want you to pay me a large monthly retainer so I can represent your interests at negotiations with ezyJet management. I am well qualified to do this, but hey, wait a minute, what I'll do instead is take your large monthly retainer and keep it, and I'll send someone else to the negotiating table who is not qualified or experienced and what's more will do it for nothing! But I'm not giving your money back to you. Sounds like a great deal. Why? Because I told you it is.
Oh, ok then, where can I join?

News Flash: impending vote on the UK and the EU. If you are a UK citizen we would like to inform you that this vote is only your business (despite changes to the law that will impact your life) if you join an expensive and costly organisation (that you may not wish to join) who will not send anyone on your behalf qualified to represent you but instead will send volunteers who will receive no payment for their work. If you do not join this organisation the changes that will have a dramatic impact on your life are none of your business. Thankyou fellow citizens.

Sounds a bit like the way the mafia conducts business.

:ok:

wiz, I forgot to answer one of your questions about where else I could go. Well, I could, if I chose, go to Ryanair tomorrow, work an easier roster, and get another £600 a month for my efforts.

But I don\'t choose to do that.

Doing the maths, it would appear that less than one in four ezy pilots have voted for this rubbish, yet both balpa and easy management are patting themselves on the back for an overwelming majority vote ! I have long since removed myself from the balpa gravey train since I never saw my interests served by them. I continue to be amazed that management are unable to recognise how inefficient the system is with disillusioned and unmotivated pilots flying their aeroplanes. (army of one etc) So long as bonuses are paid for rediculous targets heads will remain in the sand and we will continue to be flogged. Enjoy !

Mr Ree (and others),

The reason why we have BALPA representation within easyJet is because the pilots voted for it. It was a democratic decision taken against the background of two sides fiercely arguing opposing views on the subject. The resulting vote in favour of BALPA recognition bestowed upon BALPA negotiating rights with the company which the cc carry out to the best of their ability. It is then up to the membership to make an informed decision as to the acceptance of the package, in this case the 5/2/5/4 roster.

We all make a conscious decision regarding BALPA membership. Having already collectively decided to mandate BALPA with our negotiating rights, one of the consequences of deciding not to be a member of BALPA is the inability to vote upon the recommendations of the BALPA cc. It is your right not to be a member of BALPA, but you must accept the resulting consequences of your decision.

It is in all our interests to be able to negotiate from a position of strength with the company on matters which have an impact upon our lives. Unfortunately the low levels of membership remove that ability and the imperfect package delivered demonstrates this. If more pilots within the easyJet community were to be members of BALPA then the bargaining position would undoubtedly strengthen resulting in improved terms and conditions.

To any easyJet pilots reading this, may I request that you seriously consider joining BALPA if you have not already done so. There is strength in numbers and by increasing the membership levels we will not only increase our collective strength, you will also be ensuring that you have a voice that can be heard.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post.

autobrake3

Your maths is way off the mark!!!

I wholeheardedly support the suggestion that, from now on, Balpa should negotiate for Balpa members only and the rest can sort out their own lives or put their trust and faith in the management they so dearly love.

Mr Ree,

As I said, don't speak out of ignorance. I get my loyalty bonus this year same as ever UNLESS the CC reach an agreement with the company to replace it with a more beneficial profit share schemem AND the majority of BALPA members (which will not include you now will it) vote for it.


If you paid the £50 pounds to apply to Ryanair, then the £150 to do the sim and paid for your initial training, you would be unpaid for the term of your line training, then on a contract basis, without a permenent base, accomodation whilst away or transport to your next base of operation, earning less than half what you do at easyJet for the first three years. Then you MIGHT be taken on permanently and yes, earn more than you do at EJ.

So why haven't you? Probably best all round if you considered it...

I actually left BALPA when I came to easyJet for various reasons. Whatever the rights and wrongs of BALPA you have to say that if you opt out, as I have, then you have no right whatsoever to moan about the way things are. I have lost that right and accept it, but am increasingly tempted to rejoin.

All this talk about '10% of the company's pilot's voted for 5/2-5/4' and so on is like saying only 25% of the electorate voted to elect Bush, Blair or Chirac in their respective countries. The fact is that every single pilot at easyjet, regardless of experience or nationality had the right to join BALPA and thereby could have voted in this election. If you choose not to join then you have to live with the consequences (and I do!).

Before I was in easyJet the company bent over backwards to maintain the old Pilot's Council (is that what it was called?) and just about begged all the pilots to vote against BALPA representation. Despite that they were not listened to and BALPA recognition came about by a transparent, democratic and legal process. Quite rightly, having lost the vote, the company have elected to deal with BALPA directly as the vote against their wishes mandated. The management are not therefore responsible for the place of BALPA in the lives of easyJet pilots.

Nobody should now complain they did not have a say in the process - if you pay the dues then you get to choose!

mr ree

I didnt say your contract is none of your business. What I said was, BALPA memebership levels are none of your business. Your original post was just a fishing expedition, to see if someone would announce the current level. No luck there then.


Who is BALPA? It aint no multimillion dollar private organisation who sets out for huge profits. It is a group of pilots who realisie that collective baragaining is more successful than individual. The rules are set by the pilot members, and these rules include, sensibly, that the bargaining must be done by the pilots within a company group. If you want an organisation to do all your dirty work for you, then best you prepare to offer more than one percent, because that is what it will cost!

Evidence is everywhere, that pilots who stick together, for collective bargaining purposes, will always do better than any other alternative. Conversely the lack of collectivity amongst a good proportion of eJ pilots means we are left accepting much of what the company chooses.

Listening to all this pro and anti BALPA sentiment seems to me that EZY should start to think about setting up its own pilot's union! Everyone in the company would be a member with dues coming out of salary before tax. 100% membership would give a bargaining position that the management couldn't divide and manipulate. With more than 1100 pilots from all over europe, maybe it's time to be innovative and stride out on your own!!!

I think there are rules against that particular plan.


.......................they have exactly that at Southwest, but that's another story!

Fimbles, your exactly right, if we had a company council that represented ALL pilots and was voted for by ALL pilots we wouldnt be in the mess we currently find ourselves.

Cetainly give the chaps in Tangerine towers a shock, at the moment it is all too easy for them to walk all over us. They know that BALPA is not well represented so divide and conquer is simple.
With management targets of "cut costs across the operation", "reduce pilot numbers", "get max hours out of the pilots", how can we expect them to give way on anything we accept now.
If they dont hit there targets they dont get their bonus, and thats what matters, our lifestyle is a distant second........lets not kid ourselves eh!

Oh and Flaps 1, didnt I hear that this outfit use Southwest as a role model ??!!:yuk:

100 % Agree with fimbles BALPA have proved over and over to be useless and devicive a new union for just easy people with say 1000 members and low payments would be just what might change things for the better.

i can't help feeling that the management would love us to ditch BALPA and form our own little union.
In a previous life we all decided that we would do a better job of negotiating with the management than the TGWU so we all left and set up our own negotiating body. We were promptly given a right royal shafting by the management

wizofoz - Random rostering was NEVER a real issue!!! It was a empty threat from the company wich lead to exactly what the company wanted to.... - 5/4/5/2!!

Five earlies :\ :mad:

/CP

CP,

I'm not in a position to say you're wrong, though I don't see what the CCs motivation was to say a return to random rostering was a possibility. I also don't see what the big advantage to the company is with the new deal. We work the same number of days or fewer. The same flights get crewed by the same number of crew.

Out of interest, what would have been your prefered solution, and how do you think it might have been achieved?