@chikenscanfly:

Is this payscale valid only for low time First Officers or also for F.O.'s entering Ryanair with over 1000 hours jet time (not B737)?

Exhausted

What OBI hasn't mentioned (and you didn't choose to consider in your response) was that in each of the 2.5 months he was sat at home with his beautiful wife and kids he was taking home a further £1800 per month AFTER tax.......

Take care OBI - live long and prosper hehe!

salary
 

more like 1,000 pounds nowadays if you sit at home and do nothing.

my source tells me that this pay rate is for all f/os starting, irrespective of hours

Waffle.
 

You'll find, Navajo, that Nosey enjoys rancid, ill-informed bull-!!!!ery more than just about anything. So sad that victims of the Australian Pilots Dispute of 1989 are still so bitter and twisted after all these years.:rolleyes: Let it go, Nosey.
Hi Me109,
This is just plain wrong. Expressed as a percentage of profit, the only meaningful determination this side of jobs for free, flightcrew cost 36% at FR for the last financial year.

And back on topic, that specious union website who selectively claims half a million hits waters down to around 50,000 when you account for 10 hits per visitor. Yawn.........

close
 

Ahhh, the indomitable Ozi, come back to apologize for your appalling comment have you? You know, the Pilot Unions are Terrorists statement? Or more grandiose claims of "life" at Ryanair? You are quite wrong about me being Aussie, or an 1989er from that dispute. As for "ill-informed, rancid bull-!!!!ery", I rather think that's your specialty after reading all your claims. By the way, how is that court ruling in favour of allowing pilots the choice to join a union sliding down your throat? Imagine, a company not even allowing their employees the RIGHT to think and choose for themselves.

Navajo, sorry to jump down your neck mate, but I thought you were lining up to be another brainwashed victim of Ozi above. Apologies.

Go for it Ozi, waiting for the inevitable "dance around the truth" routine from you.:rolleyes:

Missing you
 

Gee Ms. Turret,

I was beginning to miss your rants and raves. Glad to see you've improved your vocabulary. However you might want to check '!!!!ery'... isn't a real word...

And your still a star at winding up figures out of thin air! 10 hits per visitor?
Something I'm sure ryanbefair.org did take into account and corrected for when announcing their total hits...

gladly you don't need to google-search that site...

and stop openly targeting individuals in hope of identification... your perch is as thinly stretched as is what you imagine to be those of the individuals youre hoping to finger out

Same old, same old........
 

Yes, Chooks old thing, lifted from the turgid teamster site, verbatim.

Total Hits: 527,741
Average Hits per Day: 3,614
Average Hits per Visitor: 10.25

Crowing about 50,000 from a worldwide population is a bit like farting into a blizzard, isn't it? I think Ryanair's website says it best....
But then we're getting on with the business of making money and creating pilot jobs.
Don't you get tired of being wrong, Nosey? Ryanair pilots have been at liberty to associate with whomever they so choose from day one. I suggest you appraise yourself of the facts of the case before making a dill of yourself yet again.:rolleyes:

Welcome back from the U.S. Ms. Ozi. We missed you. You mentioned one site "that cannot be named". And what about the other site that cannot be named ... are you really untroubled by the fact that Ryanair pilots also have a shared website? Of course, of course ... I know .... you don’t care about them joining … was it the Taliban, the Raving Monster Looney Party, etc. …. You poor soul.

You are in de dodo.... you can dodge, you can hide, you can use "Ryanair statistics", you can use the "f-word" 2,000 times per minute.... but you are in de dodo ....

All those terrorists .... politicians .... board members ... disloyal staff .... journalists .... and so forth ... all circling slowly and cautiously, waiting for you .... one day we all fall, but for you there is nobody to tell you about the straws in the wind ... your hencemen and street-fighters, loyal and silent ... read your history … ‘phone a friend … you really are in some trouble …

What, by the way, is the "cows" reference about (on the other thread about the Labour Court hearing?) - ooopss... perhaps I shud not have mentioned dat!! Avoid it … there there be demons!!

I hear that the inland revenue are about to come down on the contract pilots working for certain agencies who have not paid any uk tax and have been living there for several years. A friend of mine got caught a couple of years back and they wanted 3 years back tax, national insurance the lot. This could spell big trouble for ryanair if a lot of the guys decide to go home no.

Ms. Turret, I see you have started another thread using some very unsubtle scaremongering about failed airlines. Why, I wonder, would such a "stable, profitable" airline feel the need to do that? Must be getting hot in the kitchen with all these multiple threads discussing the conditions, or lack thereof, at Ryanair?

Pilots allowed to associate with whomever they like eh? How do you then explain the firing of 3 pilots for trying to start a pilots collective at Ryanair then? Freedom? Hardly.

As for being wrong, how wrong am I about these facts?

1) Start off paying 50STL just to register online pilot application
2) 200STL for the "privilege" of attending an interview
3) 30,000 approx for type rating
4) No pay whilst under line training
5) No accomodation while away from home base on line training
6) Pay for your own uniforms
7) Bring your own water (really, that is sad):rolleyes:
8) Bring your own food, coffee etc
9) 2 days to change base, on your rostered days off no less
10) Fired at anytime, no recourse, your out, pay your bond, 30K please.

I happily stand to be corrected, but any aspiring applicants should know the truth of their conditions before starting out with a company that so blatanly takes liberties with naive and desperate staff.

You continually bag unions as the cause of all evil (still waiting on that apology mate) yet you happily overlook the fact that poor management is the overriding factor in most airlines closing down. Pilots are far more committed to the survival of an airline than management, for the simple reason pilots skills are less transferable, unlike those of management who can change industries quite easily. Pilots are generally in it for the long haul, if the conditions are right, but when things go tits up, its the pilots left high and dry, while the high payed management take the golden parachute and leave richer than they arrived.

I would like some factual, straight answers, not the gobblygook you spew forth, and do try to avoid the name calling and side-stepping of answers that, quite honestly, you've made an art-form of.

And, the best thing you could do, is APOLOGISE for the comment you made. Be a man, admit that was too far.

Nosey

Nasal Congestion
 

1) Correct! (good on ya, cobber) Online applications DO require a fifty pound submission fee. It separates the wheat from the chaff. Wannabees and ppl's who know they stand no chance of serious consideration are, quite understandably reluctant to throw their money away, and thereby relieves us of wasting substantial resources. Pilots who put their money where their mouths are tend to be serious contenders. Just another aspect of the selection process.

2) WRONG. FTO's recover their costs of simulator assessment directly from the applicant. Sim's don't operate free of charge, Nosey, and as much as your sparkling sense of entitlement might have it otherwise, user pays.

3) WRONG. Costs vary as a function of individual FTO's schedule of charges and local taxation regimes. A median fee is around 15-20K GBP.

4) WRONG. No pilots work for free at Ryanair. Pilots are indeed paid whilst undergoing line training. Rates vary depending on candidate, either captain, FO or cadet FO, but all are paid.

5) WRONG. There are no home bases whilst on line training. Location depends on the availability of training assets across the fleet. Accommodation is the pilots responsibility...unless you propose state housing for pilots across the EU? I'll put it to the Transport Commissioner and PM you his reply, eh?

6) Partial credit. Company pays in full in the first instance and makes a (very) small monthly deduction to recover costs thereafter.

7) WRONG. Company provides the water. Pilots are required to transfer it from one location (chilled water fountains) to another (a bottle, gourd or goatskin). Seems to be within the purview of most.

8) Correct in the case of food and coffee, don't know what you mean by "etc".

9) WRONG. The minimum days off we get is 3. Travel on the network is free of charge, and our longest sector is just over 1000nm. A distance that can easily be covered in 3 days at 460kt, I think you'll find.

10) WRONG. No one, and I mean no one at Ryanair is denied due process.
Ok then, lets see now, by my reckoning, that gives you 2 and a half out of 10. A low score even by your tawdry standards, Nosey. Once again, love, don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

I would modify your caution to aspiring applicants, though. Might I suggest the use of caution when listening to the blustering of ill-informed, terminally aggrieved blow-holes who subscribe to the view that you should never let truth get in the way of a good story?:rolleyes:

get a life
 

ooo arent we a little touchy this morning! jet lagged?


may I just step in to mention the fact that average hits per visitor is an accepted and required notice when referring to site statistics - even with 10 hits per visitor, half a million for a site of that kind is very impressive...


and to fill in to your point scoring of nosegear,

2) Almost all other airlines don't require the cost of applications to be carried by the applicant... Its an accepted cost incurred in recruitment and in turn ensures adequate selectivity when deciding on which applicants to invite for an assessment... The structure was set up ages ago and till this day works fine...

An airline which requires payment of this should be seen to be questionable... The pilot's skills and investments are a good...They come with a price...

3) Nosegear quoted "30,000"... Admittantly it should have been currency specific... Type ratings cost typically 30,000 euros. This more correctly equates to 20,000 STL at the least...

4) Starting pilots are not paid anything whilst they are undergoing training and until they begin line training... Once line training commences, they still are not paid anything until release of the safety pilot... Following this they are paid only 30% of their 'promised' earning... It takes another month or so until completion of their line training that they are then paid 70% of their potential earnings... Its another 6 months until full payment as claimed from the start of the assessment is given, WITHOUT any backdating of reduced pay...

5) A "Training Base" is assigned during line training, which is told to be the place from which most of the line training will take place. Movement to other bases happens with less than a days notice in most cases, without any further assistance or information regarding the base to which one is moving...
The costs incurred durign this already low-paid period are astronomical for the pilot...
Again, other airlines avoid this if they can as it incurs further financial and moral issues down the line...

6) Uniform costs are taken by the pilot in full from day one... Sorry turret, award the full marks here please...

7) Water is provided at bases, but if the coolers are broken no compensation is offered... Furthermore crews from other bases are unaware of the location of water fountains in the other bases, and often day shifts exist where crews are away from their base (and the water fountain) for up to 7 hours... Combined with a high workload environment where the average humidity rarely breaches 10%, dehydration and performance degradation results...

8) "what you mean by etc?"... cheap shot

9) you support nosegears claim here. Notice for base change is irrefutably short and is often incurred on the individual's time off, time which by law is supposed to be completely unrelated to work...
This point also contradicts the 'stable rosters' claim made. 5 on 3 off does not change, granted, but how those 3 days off are then used alternatively besides flying does (think medical for another example)...

10) then why the need for the websites? why are there 200+ people on www.repaweb.org? why the thousands of messages from all staff (cabin, flight, ground, checkin) to ryan-be-fair.org?

why the labour court hearing and subsequent ruling that there are labour relations issues (specifically intimidation at the workplace) requiring resolution?

why were pilots on the older 737-200 threatened their job and advancement to the 737-800 if they continued discussion with employee repressentative organisations?

intimidation is ripe... Thus the reason for the numerous outlets on anomynous web forums whilst all is quiet on the frontline...


why was the previous ground breaking forum, stretching 24 pages, removed due to legal complaints by 'the plaintiff'?
:mad:

So, as I see it, and most others, I was pretty close to the mark then wasn't I? I would say closer to 9 out of 10 then? As for blustery blow holes, I should think your posts cover that definition nicely, love (bit of a concern Warwick, calling another bloke "love"). :p

Your tactics are clear, bluff and bullsh!t, then name call and try never to answer a question or statement, especially one thats true. Such as (point 10) what did happen to those fired pilots? Hardly due process, love. If that was true, why the current labour court case? Can you answer that one without insults, love?

Also, hate to harp on, love, but what about an apology for that comment? You claim the moral high ground, yet your not man enough to offer an apology? Sad, you must be high up in management. How about charging those Tsunami victims full fare? Nicely done. In another post you claim pilots wages are "chump change", if so, why not chuck a little more at your employees? Might make them happier, god forbid, love.

I await your name calling and dance routine, love:rolleyes:

Nosey

Edited to ask why you deleted your post Ozi, you know the one, telling chickenscanfly to leave, calling him an angry young man and giving him links to several personnel agencies? But I don't suppose I'll get an answer to that or this one, how is it that all your posts are during normal business hours?:E

Ms Ozi, very nice try. An excellent example of how a good-looking defense for anything can be produced. Your problem is that the facts don't support you. Too many people now know all about the different types of exploitation and the language used to cover them up. You pretend the facts support you, but you bandits even put your threats in writing and up on powerpoint slides. Do you really think that this can go on for ever?

Rant on :mad:
Sadly, and unless anyone one of you actually works for FR, you wont know the full truth of this scum of a business they call an airline. I personally don't care who within FR knows me, I'm just very glad I took the initiative to get out when I did. Pilots may get fat pay cheques each month, and may rack up the hours on a shiny new -800, but when your quality of life eventually gets reduced to nothing because you are so tired, I think most of you would also take the initiative and go look elsewhere.

Why is the cabin crew turn over rate so high ? Because the girls and boys down the back get treated like scum too.

Maybe go take a look at the thread running with Ops & Crewing and see how the boys and girls who work your rosters and flight plans, slots etc get treated.

Then sit back and ponder what FR is actually like, then make a judgement.

Ms. Turret (Ozi) Now why do you sound so much like Mr Brady :confused:

Rant off :mad:

Threats
 

Well said Viking!