Ryan-Be-Fair.org confirms it!

[chikenscanfly]

Aside from the usual defence we always hear on this site...

now the International Transport Federation's own site, ryan-be-fair.org has finally spelled out what almost every sane individual always knew...

Ryanair is NOT the best paid airline!
Ryanair does NOT offer it's staff great incentives
Ryanair DOES treat it's employees (ground staff, flight crew, cabin crew) with resentment and uses open THREATS to maintain the autocracy that rules the company

full article www.ryan-be-fair.org : NEWS

this after half a million hits in four months...

THOSE CONSIDERING EMPLOYMENT, BE WARNED! YOURE GETTING INTO VERY HOT WATER

[sean1982]

ryan-be-fair only publishes what it wants to publish. I submitted my opinion more then once and it was never published!!

my opinion is :

I work now for almost a year with ryanair as cabin crew. First of all I don't care if I'm the best paid cabin crew member in europe or not, Ryanair pays good! (I was talking to an FO yesterday and he said that he looked at 12! other companies and ryanair was the best paying)

Second I don't think I have a hard job, I used to work in a kitchen before and THAT was hard work ... even more hours duty time and much harder work without a pause. No time to sit down and drink coffee ... that is what we do when we finished the service on long flight

So to all of you complaining, If you don't like Ryanair, keep you opinion FOR YOURSELF, and quit so that many others who want to become cabin crew have the chance. Further on I think that those who don't work for the company should defenitly not slash ryanair in public as you don't know nothing about this company!!

kind regards,
Sean

[neil armstrong]

If you don't like Ryanair, keep you opinion FOR YOURSELF

sorry , freedom of speech!!

those who don't work for the company should defenitly not slash ryanair in public as you don't know nothing about this company!!

I dont work for them and i never will!!
But i know Pilots who work there and some (not all) cant wait to get out!! the once who like it are mostly new to the industry and just dont understand that the way they are treated is not normal in aviation!!

Glad to hear that you like it there sean ,good luck with it ,it will only get worse

Neil

[peeteechase]

<<Ryanair pays good!>>

You get what you pay for?

TIC,
ptc

[Obi Wan Kirk]

Ryan Air is a low cost airline, where pilots and cabin crew are paid to fly. This is what I was told at the interview and this is what I did when I flew for them. As an FO I was averaging 92 hrs a month and raking in £3700 net. All flights were on time, actually most of them were 10' early. I must admit it was hard work but you get into the rhythm after a couple of months. However, I do believe 3-5 years is the most you can go at that pace. It's very good to build experience and the pilots are all very professional and from over 40 countries.

Considering other LCC in Europe Ryan Air is probably the best, followed by easyjet & Air Berlin. When I say best I mean weighing up flight time and the money you actually take home. The 5 on 3 off roster was also a good thing and I know there aren't many airlines that have a system like that.

I have met many people that bad mouth Ryan Air, interestingly none of them have ever worked for Ryan Air. So if you are thinking of joining SPEAK TO SOMEONE WHO WORKS FOR THEM!!!

[Bearcat]

cruise alt ...your comments are unfair. In the last week there as been many FR diversions due wind like wise aer lingus diverted. FR may have higher cross wind limits in the wet for T/O as against AL who are limited on the 737s to a 25kt limit. I know many FR Capts and they are all pro's and not cowboys as you infer.

[Doors to Automatic]

As I have nothing to do with Ryanair I have no major feelings towards them or against them but I think some of the comments about their safety are unfounded.

Surely if they cut corners on safety issues as is being inferred they would have had an incident or at least one or two close calls? I monitor this and other similar sites regularly and I've heard of nothing to date.

[vfenext]

Pro's working for a cowboy outfit you mean! But knowing many of them I am not so sure. You have to be good to survive in a company like FR. It's definitely not the real world of aviation. How can you stand over a 45 min report time, 25 min turnarounds,one set of badly photocopied approach plates, min time captains, min time f/o's, drive yourself to the aircraft, no food/water, pay for ID uniform and sim check......the list goes on.
Don't tell me the money is great, there are more things to life than that. As for RAKING in 3700 a month all I can say is you are easily bought. You can spend it on medical expenses when you collapse with exhaustion.
Greed is what made FR the company it is today and now greed is turning around to bite you. You sold everything to O Leary, why are you all surprised when he now wants to collect?

[smudge74]

Ryanair would be good

I fly for an air charter company all over europe. My pay is crap, flight duty hours fit in when we don't get a job! (Days off backdated) I earn freelance F/O £1000.00 per month! then I have to take my tax and N.I.

I see no reason to diss Ryanair, I supply my own uniform, my own drinks on the flight deck, pay my own medical.

I have been to sim ride and interview at Alteon for Ryanair in Aug 2004 and told I had passed and they would call me. From where I am Ryanair is offering a bloody good deal (Ihave to pay for everything anyway?) At least with ryanair I would have some money to pay for uniform, medicals and in flight refreshments.

Keep in mind that many pilots would still be happy to be doing the flying that I do on a twin turboprop arround the UK and Europe its great experience but the bank wants more.

Keep the faith as I am. Just Waiting for the Alteon people to call me with a training start date? Please make it soon. If the Alteon management read this I am the one from Norwich who came for sim check on 02/08/2004

Any commercial flying and any experience is good in the current market.

Good luck to all and if it was not for companies like Ryanair where would people start there real careers?

[phoenix son]

Surely if they cut corners on safety issues as is being inferred they would have had an incident or at least one or two close calls? I monitor this and other similar sites regularly and I've heard of nothing to date.

Is this statement not a case of "burying ones head in the sand?"..."They've not had a crash yet so they must be safe..." I can't comment on the specifics of safety at FR, I've flown with them a couple of times and they seemed OK, cheap and cheerful. I've flown with better airlines, but then I've paid a lot more to do so, it's true that you get what you pay for, and for 20-quid a flight or whatever it was I paid, that seems fair enough...

PHX

[vfenext]

A crew stansted to knock failed to switch the packs on and pressurise the aircraft. Did not realise it til the cabin crew told them the masks had dropped. They then tried to invent a cover story. Without FR people would start their careers on a better/safer footing.

[eal401]

As for RAKING in 3700 a month all I can say is you are easily bought.

£44,000 a year? Gosh, how do you poor little babies cope?

[Obi Wan Kirk]

All of you that reckon that £3700 a month is buying a pilot to work for Ryan Air obviosly haven't ever worked harder, with unstable rosters, poorly maintained aircraft for a lot less money a month. This is only comparing Ryan Air to other LCC.

Other airline jobs such as regional airlines, charter or national airlines are not comparable as they are totally different set-up. I reckon if you want to try the LCC experience Ryan Air is the best package. However, it's not a long term solution as you will end up too knackered to enjoy the money if you stick around for more than 5 years. the ideal is to give it a go for a couple of years and then move on to something quieter.

[exhausted]

As an FO I was averaging 92 hrs a month and raking in £3700 net.

And here we see the truth.

If you were averaging 92 hours a month then that works out to a maximum number of months you could work is less than 9.5 months. Anyone who could sustain and average of 92.5 hours a month for 9.5 months of the year would certainly need the other 2.5 months for recuperation.

So, £3700 net for 92 hours a month average works out to 9.5 x £3700 = £35150 a year. You claim that that amount is net so we can work that out to be approximately £43000 a year before tax. Hmmm, that certainly isn't what I would call fantastic pay, especially since you haven't deducted all the extras such as uniform, medicals, pension, food, LOL, various other insurances and health schemes etc. that the rest of us expect as part of a normal package. Let's be generous and and say that they only come to £3000, then your £40k (how much of that is pensionable is open to debate) doesn't seem so fantastic any more.

Before the non-pilot enthusiasts who haunt this site such as eal401 jump in, the flight duty hours quoted above are not the same as duty hours. I won't waste my time explaining that to failed wannabe types such as eal401 but if obi was averaging 92 flight duty hours per month then he was most certainly running at close to the maximum duty hours, especially on multi sector days. Probably around 2.5 x flight hours if you include standby duties which would equate to 53 hours a week. I'll bet that those failed wannabe types don't put in 53 hours a week every week until they are fatigued. They just see a salary of around £3.7k a month and compare that to their paltry 9-5 desk job and jump to conclusions.

No, averaging 92 flight duty hours a month must make O'Leary very happy as it is so close to the legal maximum and therefore very productive. The fact that the pilot can only work a maximum of 9.5 months at that rate must infuriate O'Leary as that is the legal maximum but not very productive as far as he is concerned. Any pilots who work those kind of hours, as has been admitted by Obi, cannot do so for a very long time as they are truly exhausting. What Obi has failed to state is that the 2.5 months he has to sit at home because he has reached the maximum legal number of flight duty hours he can fly in a year, he has no income and therefore he should really have explained that the £3700 a month he was "raking in" had to cover him for the time he wasn't flying.

I think that most jet pilots prefer to work for companies that at least show some care of duty towards their employees even if it means that they take the burden of having to do every little thing such as supply a uniform, food, medicals etc. They also tend to offer a salary that includes leave payments and flight duty pay. For O'Leary to claim that his pilots are the best paid is nothing but a pure and unadulterated lie. Unfortunately, the media love him because he spends a lot of money advertising with them and he's just so controversial when he makes statements. Because of that they are in awe of him and so are many aspiring jet pilots. They actually believe the blarney! RYanair pilots, as has been shown above are not the best paid. In fact, if you work it out, they are worked extremely hard. Nothing wrong with that except that failed wannabes are ignorant of what such long flight duty hours month in and month out can do to your health.

[Waspy]

FR pay

What if you have to pay back for your type rating....???? All you will have earned in 5 years may vanish in the sky...

What if you're so exhausted you don't even have the necessary dash to take an interview in another company?

Many more companies will experience pilot burnout in the coming years. Remember our profession is only valuable if you can make it till pension...I doubt anybody can sustain the pace imposed by new management styles around the world.

[Runway 31]

All I can say to the likes of Chickenscanfly etc who are always moaning about their terms and conditions. Get out if it is so bad, no one makes you stay. If the grass is greener why don't you pack it in with Ryanair and get a job with one of the airlines that you compare them with.

If I was as unhappy with my job as you profess to be, I would sure as hell not work there, why are you?.

Or maybe you don't work with them at all and are just an agitator out to cause trouble.

[the grim repa]

i have followed a few of chickens posts and i think he is saying that the trends developing within ryanair are the worry and not necessarily where he is now.if not the case,then he has every right to moan like everybody else here who chooses to highlight the inefficiencies within his company of employment.
we believe that ryanair could really achieve an absolute position of great service to its customers,care of staff and provide a better and more efficient service than we have to date,but we are moving in the wrong direction.we are cutting everything to the bone and thus creating a false balance sheet.what will happen when there is no more to cut back.i have no problem flying 900 hours a year and being payed for it,but i would like it to be in an environment that is good for alland in a company with a great future.unfortunately that may not be the successful ryanair that we see today,but one never knows.i don't imagine that any pilot within ryanair wants to see the company go down.quite the contrary,i think that the majority would like to see ryanair become greater and thus they progress also.

chickens correct me if i misinterpret you!

[Bomber Harris]

Cruise Alt...... your comments show a great misunderstanding of performance. You claim to be an instructor. You obviously don't teach heavy jet performance.....or in the unlikely event that you do...you have certainly never worked for more than one airline.

Please don't slander fellow proffesionals until you know all the facts. Your comments could be easily misinterpreted by commentators in the media. (If this is actually your intention to mislead the uneducated then that is truely the lowest pond life thing to do....use pilots performing their job well as tools to slander an airline!!)

If you want to attack FR then don't pick on the proffesionals without evidence.

[smudge74]

Moving on

I have only been to two interviews but I will say that if Ryanair was to take me on, i would be there for the long haul because who wants to keep sitting the nasty sim rides dished out be the airline?

[dahamsta]

Long time lurker, had to post to try and understand this post by sean82...

ryan-be-fair only publishes what it wants to publish. I submitted my opinion more then once and it was never published!!

So to all of you complaining, If you don't like Ryanair, keep you opinion FOR YOURSELF

If it's ok for you to pass on your opinion, why is not ok for them to do it? Isn't this a simple case of sour grapes on your part? Is that stuff you posted what you sent to the site? If not, perhaps you should post it here so people can decide for themselves if your comments were censored for the right or wrong reasons.

adam