I think noblues has hit the nail on the head. If you have time on your side, BA is still a good company to fly for. ( But maybe not to work for) On the aviation side, the flying, routes, fellow pilots are great), but the rest of the bull!!!! is rapidly tipping the balance for a lot of us....

I have read through all 13 pages so far and some of the postings are quite emotive. So if you are still here (must be about 14 by now) then I have some less inflammatory comments.

Firstly, whether or not you apply to BA is dependent on your current circumstances. You have to appreciate that a career in BA is entirely due to your seniority. This is affected by the demographics of the pilot workforce at the time you join, and the age at which you started.

The younger you are when you start then the better your career. By the time you are 35 then (assuming you are established elsewhere), it would be a less attractive proposition. With the current situation in BA (no further expansion, retirement at 55, and few leavers), then those 35 and over are not going to get a long haul command, although a short haul one is likely. Those over thirty might get a long haul command, eventually, those under 30 will, and those under 25 will do very nicely.

The biggest benefit BA can offer is the final salary pension scheme, it is very good, but is no longer available to new starts. So if you are considering joining then please make additional pension plans.

A lot of the comments made in other postings are perfectly valid. It just depends on your background and expectations.

BA does not recruit the "best" pilots, but the "best fit" for the organisation. The SOP's and FCO's are written so that the worst pilot in the organisation can operate safely. You do not have to be ace of the base, average is more likely to get you a job.

More important is your ability to fit into the BA culture (and it is very distinct). You have to be primarily a conformist who will apply the SOP's and FCO's rigidly, and be able to enforce these standards in yourself and others. Naked ambition will not help, you have to appreciate you will be doing a dull, repetitive job, without the chance for promotion, for a very long time. Stoicism and patience are handy virtues to have.

"Characters" need not apply as they seek "stable" personalities, anyone familiar with the work of Myers-Briggs will understand the personality profile required.

Your expectations of the company will also colour your subsequent impressions. Do not expect nirvana, it is a company like any other, with many problems. The glossy brochures and adverts are just marketing speak. The reality is very different.

Standards at BA are no different to those in the majority of UK owned/operated airlines.

Some people have a very good life, others less so, again, it is primarily down to your position in the seniority list. The further up it you go the more money, less work, more control, better standard of living you will have. How long it takes and your attitude will decide your outlook.

My suggestion is that you think carefully, research the company, speak to more than one BA pilot, and apply if its what you want.

Worst case, you get in, get a free rating (no bonding either), then take your qualifications elsewhere. Just don't give up a good position with an existing employer and expect overnight success within BA.

Its a long seniority list full of relatively young people. Nothing ventured , nothing gained.

Harry :cool:

A new future
 

I read today that in the U.S. they are gearing up to let UAVs fly in CAS under IFR. For all the chat about the future regarding seniority and retirements, I think the pressing problem in 10-15 years time will be whether the airlines will move towards non-piloted airliners controlled by ATC ground controllers. It has economic/security/benefits and it will obviously require education of pax to accept it.
The technology to do this is here today and I believe that after 2030ish that professional pilots will become extinct. Make the most of it while you still can.

Excellent post Harry.

1) Pilotless Planes would be more expensive to operate than hiring a couple of pilots.

2) Someone still has to sit and control these aircraft

3) No current or planned airliner is capable of being converted to pilotless operations without punatitive conversion and certification costs.

4) Its a terrorists wet dream.

5) A large EMP event would render all airborne airliners uncontrollable (range 350nm radius of - say - Paris) and such capability will be in non-state hands within 20 years.

Cheers


WWW

I'd like to join BA. So all of you who are currently there and have nothing better to do than slag off your company, please leave and let me, and many others, have your jobs.

Unfortunately, thanks to the likes of Ryan and Easy, being a pilot is far less glamorous than it used to be with crappy rosters, an unstable lifestyle, long hours etc etc etc. If you are really fed up with it, go get a job driving a train on the underground. You'll earn far more there, have a better lifetsyle, and will appreciate the sun a lot more after a day in darkness.

For those of us who are now resigned to the fact that we're going to have a career of long hours, nights/days away from home, and all the other cr*p that comes with the job, I know there are still plenty of us who would like to accept the cr*p that a job with BA will bring.

Please don't complain too much about your job - I'd give pretty much anything to have a nice uniform and fly for a company that is well respected by passengers and other companies world-wide.

Actually er82

I wonder if you can see the irony in your post?

BA command time can be a matter of luck and timing. Fleets and bases may be unpopular and then there is a change, usually for financial reasons when there is restructuring.
EOG was like this for a while: command time could be as little as a year from joining BA. Those who wanted an early command went for it and are probably very glad they did, now that there is a much longer wait.
So, if you are thinking of joining as a DEP from another airline, go for it! First officers get treated much better than in many other outfits, that's for sure. Things like being able to taxi the aeroplane, and a complete reversal of roles when it is your leg. You are also treated like a sentient being, instead of a rather thick dog, as happens outside BA (not in all airlines, but certainly in some). Everything is fair, too. No Mr Nastys in the sim making up silly scenarios or putting the pressure on just for the fun of it. BA's training is second to none.
Good luck!

:ok:

"BA's training is second to none"

Bit pompous? BA has a good training department with excellent facilities is more like the answer - just like many other large carriers around the world!

I guess wheelbarrow hasn't had to endure BAs A320 groundschool then. The quality of that is about the only thing we all agree on on the schoolbus.

It appears that BA's A320 sim training for DEPs will now start in January 2005 ---very large amount of training (sim & line)scheduled for first 3 months of 2005.
All subject to change of course!

erm, not too sure about this one!

Preepy

might have changed already! Airbus now not going to LGW 737-500s staying a while longer, meanwhile 319 hulls being given back to airbus as 321s arrive!

2 days is a long time in BA

Still as they say that was todays plan

Advice for those who join us........

Firstly, welcome!

Secondly, when it's your sector, the PICUS is really PICUS, but please, please, remember that that is an opportunity to exhibit good CRM, too. Not an exercise in territorial pissing. If I listen to another 'older than me' DEP make some unilateral decision before my aghast jaw hits the floor, I'll start to get a reputation for being grumpy. There are a small minority of hard jawed ex-mil oldies who really get uptight that they're sitting next to a younger, more senior oik and their poor team skills attest to that.
My opinions are not propoganda or prejudice, I have now had the honour of flying with every ex-mil DEP on my fleet and nearly half are letting their jealousies affect the opinion others have of them.

You may ask "Perhaps Capt CEP is the sort that attracts such behaviour?"
I respond.
All my friends who are also Capts on the fleet feel the same.
All (bar one) of the co-pilots who do not have a military background do not act this way. Why's that?

Finally, If you do join, regardless of background, after the age of 35, you will end up an embittered whinger just like the rest of those who had too many years when they joined. Trust me. You will.

Well what a barrel of laughs it looks like working for Birdseed these days - Not.

One wonders just who is applying to join them at the moment? Are they all folks worried about the future of their current employer e.g. MyTravel?

If so its quite something that in just a few years the airline of choice has become the airline of sinking ship jumpers. I suspect the wheel may turn once again - IF management can sort things out and sack half of themselves.

Here's hoping.

Abeam...............don't you mean Bird!!!!!?

Wheel barrow wrote ;
First officers get treated much better than in many other outfits, that's for sure. Things like being able to taxi the aeroplane, and a complete reversal of roles when it is your leg. You are also treated like a sentient being, instead of a rather thick dog, as happens outside BA (not in all airlines, but certainly in some). Everything is fair, too. No Mr Nastys in the sim making up silly scenarios or putting the pressure on just for the fun of it. BA's training is second to none.

This, I'm sad to say is complete bollox.

Even the fleet (LH) newsletter recently said " Beware pilots with two stripes .. they will screw you up" How dare they treat F/O's in that way .
Typical pompous patronising arrogant " head up arse" BA.

For prospective applicants ; you will wear two stripes for 4 years ( even if you have just given up an airbus or 75 command with Midland / Airtours etc . ) You will , sadly, be treated like a freaking boy scout .

Shuttleworth is bang on the money.

Capt Cadet Entry.

The name says it all.

What absolute twaddle. If only you were a tenth as talented as those you choose to berate you'd be doing very well indeed.

LF

Damn, can't resist biting:eek: ....

I read the previos post and one name sprang straight to mind, and it was from His Holiness, LF none the less.

We are honoured by His presence.

And there was me thinking that the most dangerous thing in aviation is the pompous pr@t who thinks He is God's gift!