More like a loss of 10 days leave whippersnapper. Quite a few FO's at LTN have resigned or will shortly (another one accepted by BA very recently) however I don't think the company mind this as they can replace them with cheap TRSS or cadet canon fodder. If Captains resign just promote FO's who will then be on 90% salary for 6 months - another great saving.

I have been told, though I feely admit I'm not sure of the accuracy of this, that the TRSS scheme comes in at £23k, but Airbus charge £18k. £5k per cadet is a healthy trg profit. I'm also told that the TRSS are then bonded for 5 years, and are put on reduced "inexperienced" salaries. IF this is true, it sounds like they are paying for their rating three times! I hope it's just a dirty rumour.

That´s true Greaser, but the problem arises for EZY when those high hour F/O´s (i.e. eligible for command) are getting jobs at other companies because they meet the entry requirements.

I will be up for command in a year or so, but lately I´m wondering why I should stay in EZY? So I can work my @ss off in the left hand seat for a slightly bigger paycheck? No thanks! Perhaps it´s better to start building up seniority with a real company? A company where I will be healthy enough to live till retirement and enjoy life at the same time. A bigger paycheck is NOT all that matters in life. And don´t think I´m the only one! Lot´s of SFO´s are thinking the same way. What good is a command and a big paycheck when you´re knackered all the time?

The real orange ones (ike outousynch) will perhaps stay longer, but soon many more will open their eyes and see that opportunities are starting to pop up around them, realising that it woud be stupid to stay in EZY.

But why should Ray care? Let someone else clean up the mess!

Whippersnapper,

This TRSS scam has been going on for years with BALPA looking the other way. :mad:

TRSS pilot´s are not bonded, but they pay the 23K up front and are paid back 25K (to cover intrest) in a 5 year period, so there is no risk for EZY if they leave earlier.

Despite EZY ´paying back´ the type rating, the poor F/O ends up paying for it anyway, because in those 5 years he/she will earn (you guessed it!!) 25K LESS than a type rated pilot. You can check it out on their website: here and here. Smoke and mirrors...! :yuk:

I dunno if your numbers (18K for Airbus and 5K profit for EZY) are correct, but I do know that there is currently an investigation of CTC/EZY charging 3K for an ´advanced handling course´ to everybody, but not everybody has received this advanced handling course. BALPA are looking into this and will now (after excluding F/O´s from the profit sharing scheme!) have a chance to finally start doing something for the F/O´s who are also paying BALPA membership fees. :}

Doug,

I have come to the same conclusion as you and have decided enough is enough at easyJet. As you say, many FO's are feeling the same. Shame 'cos it could be a great company, but management are, on the whole, a bunch of monkeys.

sad to see so many promising sfo's talking about moving on.

the FO standard here is very high ( from the other places I've flown as P1) and the company doesn't seem to appreciate that. their loss.

but if you are going to jump, do it for the right reason. pilots have a habit of talking themselves into making rash career decisions. the way things are going all airlines are tightening their belts. while it's not perfect it's certainly a long way from the worst. after 10K hours doing this job, on balance I could find other jobs that have better 'bits' but the package and where I'm based suit me. I must be the luck one.

hope you find what you're looking for.:ok:

I understand that there are many who are not totally happy with their lot at ezy. I too have a gripe about staff travel. But... In the grand scheme of things, the situation at other airlines in the UK is not so different after inspection.
If you're a long haul junkie then nothing will stop your desire to be off when you get the hours or job offer. Looking at short haul then it really is a subjective difference. If you don't like ezy, due to some silly management intransigence, or a personal perception then it's likely you will fall out with them; and want to go else where to a company who will truly value your experience and enthusiasm. Unfortunately I have the experience that other companies are not necessarily greener pastures and can be just as silly and intransigent.
Sadly bean counters run all the airlines these days and you can be guaranteed that wherever you go there will be a fair share of unhappy bunnies. The important thing is fitting the job into your domestic life.
For me knowing my days off months in advance, the current roster system (lets hope it stays as stable as it is so far) and it being a profitable and expanding(job security) airline do it for me and my family.
All I want to do is go to work with mostly very good people, do my job as well as I can with the minimum of hassle, then go home and forget the job until the next time I need to. Thankfully I get that here.
For any one who doesn't get that, then I fully sympathise with you. I hope that you can chnge your personal circumstances to suit yourself either within or without the airline.

Not sure why some of the LTN pilots on this forum are so defensive, especially when commenting about LGW crews! I can assure you we are working as hard as you, add to that, taxi times during the day are rarely below 25 mins and we are regularly having to hold. On top of that we have to suffer the rollercoaster ride to the car park that probably adds an extra 30 mins to our day. Yes there are things the company can improve, but heh tell me a company that does not need to!

if you had to live / work in LTN you'd be unhappy too.

LUTON..........best visited in cat 3.:ok: :ok: :D

Problem is this sort of whinging goes on at most Airlines by Aircrew and usually the only ones that move are F/O's for grasses greener (often not). The Captains stay and keep moaning despite taking the £ home. Not sure what can done, CAP371 is out of date and does not reflect the Loco Ops and many other Airlines that operate in the U.K. Pilots term and conditions have been eroded over many years and its not as glamorous as it was. Whereas in the old day it was the Charter Airlines who worked their crews to death, compared to Locos they are a Holiday camp.
That said wish i could have 5/2/5/4 as its a darn sight better than 5/2/5/2 on call 24/7 no weekly duty limits blah blah

Not so at easyjet, I personally know half a dozen TRE's that have left or are looking to get out and I know there are others - TRE's that is!. Is this happening at Britannia, Monarch or BA - airlines everyone keeps saying are 'just the same'?

The rostering might have improved a bit but it sounds like the culture hasn't moved an inch. :rolleyes:

Banzai hit the nail on the head.

Cap 371 is pre-historic and recent 'ammendments' have done little to correct the nonsense in contains. It was written in a time when commercial aviation was something totally to the beast that exisits today (whether LoCo or BA short-haul!!!!!!!!)

This document does not need up-dating, it needs binning and re-writing from start to finish and the sooner the CAA realise that the better we will all be.

It probably ain't gonna happen during my career though!!!!!!!!!!!

Cannot believe this thread that I started off ages ago is still going.

Ezy will never change. As long as they keep on employing foreign nationals or the company CC get everyone to sign up to Balpa, the company will cont to walk over pilots.

Keep on bumping into people I used to fly with at Ezy. Have not heard anything positive for a while except that they are knackered. same.... another day!

I left over a year ago. What a difference it is to fly for an airline that has a srong CC and large Balpa membership. We have so many restrictiond implementd by our CC and agreed by the company.

How many days off sick or should I say fatigued does the average pilot have per year? In my company it is one day.

All the pilots are happy although Carmen has just been brought in. Yes you sometimes get pretty s....y deep nights but then you have loads of time off to recover.

If anyone is interested, the inside scoop is that they are looking to recruit 40 pilots on the 767/757 and over 60 on the 737 by the end of the year. T-fly

Well said CS DU...!

The companies that are the best and most popular to work for are the ones with a high union membership. It works best for BOTH sides.

Non-members in eJ are the reason why there are still lingering problems in the company. The cost of subscriptions is vastly reimbursed by the consequential benefits. Look at VS...

Easyjet management sees every employee, who elects not to join an union, as a vote that they enjoy being shafted, or are too apathetic to want change.

@ constant speed DU

Hellooo, what does this statement mean? Do you believe, just only british are looking for better perspectives?

I personally think more in "european" dimensions. This will be the way for the future for pilots. The more "power" by joint pilots (unions) the better.
If you think, foreign pilots are hindering, I think this is not thinking ahead.

I agree, the more "BALPA" members, the better!

Good old times of "Kaiser" and powerful "commonwealth" are gone!:D

Kraut,

The problem with your theory of multiple pilot unions won't work with a British company.

As far as I'm aware the company only have to deal with one union that I assume has the highest membership amongst the pilot group. So unless the German pilots union can recruit sufficient numbers of pilots into it to outnumber BALPA, pilot representation will stay with BALPA.

On the strike front under British Law you would not be able to join a strike organised by BALPA if you weren't a member. Doing so could lead to disciplinaries.

United we stand, divided we fall.

I think that some balance needs to brought here. EasyJet is now a massive company with about 1200 pilots and about 105 aircraft (the exact numbers vary almost daily). A pilot's view of the company is understandably almost entirely dependant on which base he/she operates from. From my own perspective at Gatwick, we work hard but are by and large happy with our lot. Yes, there are a few of the FOs who are trying to get to BA, Virgin etc but that is a long-haul type choice. From my own perspective, I think easyJet is a good company to work for. It is not perfect and there are battles to be won and that includes not giving away the loyalty bonus for a few bob now with no thought to the future.

Regarding mass membership of BALPA, the overwhelming reason why there is not a higher membership is simply the 1% cost. It is too high and until they resolve that, we will remain with the level of membership we do. I am ex-BALPA but, despite significant reservations mainly related to wastage of money on foolish cases, would rejoin if it was cheaper. No doubt others will disagree but the fact remains that if the cost was less then people would join.

On a percentage basis, the people leaving Ezy is no different that the people leaving most UK airlines.

There is a lot of movement at the moment..as BA and Virgin open up.

Ezy conditions appear no worse than some, and significantly better than most, if you like that kind of work.

Comes down to personal choice , I feel.

The company only have to negotiate with the recognised union - Balpa. All the rest can do what they like but they will never have a say if and until they outnumber and get formal recognition.

If your contract is issued in the UK, you should join the UK Union. If the situation were the other way round I would certainly join the national union of my contract issuer. Until the rules/laws change - that's the way it is folks.

At the moment, a German (for example) working for EZ is wasting money payng for membership of VC. If the guy found himself in difficulties VC would not have the right to represent him, and Balpa - under the IFALPA banner - could only provide emergency cover.

NSF
1% is par for the course for professional body membership (doctors, lawyers, EU pilot trade unions etc). Don't forget tax relief applies now in the same way as it does to other professional bodies. Also the first 2 years are cheaper, it's free for cadets etc etc.

TG may well be cheaper but it cannot provide the sort of specialist help that might sadly be needed one day. I've already seen it too may times that TG will drop a case without much of a fight. If I ever get into a jam (whether my fault or not) I want someone to fight my case until I say stop or I lose - that's what I pay for.


United indeed we must stand!

Flaps One

BALPA will only fight your corner (legally) if they decide you have a chance of winning, you have no control over that . If they think you have a less than a fifty percent chance of winning they will not spend any money on legal action .

Note; its what they think , your own opinion is irrelevant .

Plenty of people have been abandoned by BALPA in their hour of need . ( i am a BALPA member incidentally , a realistic one !).

Slight thread creep , a mate of mine damaged an aircraft in landing incident a few years back . He called the 24 hour accident line for advice . Way he tells it , around 48 hours elapsed before he got to talk to anyone .

The big problem with BALPA is it promises a lot , people believe the hype and are then pissed off when nothing happens .
The guys at the top in BALPA need to wake up and realise that the industry is changing rapidly , the days of the legacy carriers being the only show in town is over .

In EZY , very few of the F/O's are in the union because they have been royally shafted over the last few years . EZY / BALPA have a long way to go to bring these guys back in to the fold ........ and we need them ,without more members we will achieve nothing .

NF

Flaps One:

I have seen you and the CC drop so many issues over rostering, pay, leave and crew food that it is clear that BALPA would drop a legal case like a hot brick if it was not in their own interest. BALPA has become nothing more than a business, and is not generally looking out for its members but for itself.