How are they meant to get results if you won't join until they get results?

Nimrod, no offence but are you thick?

It's not rocket science for goodness sake. Bigger the membership the bigger the stick to beat the management. Smaller the membership the bigger the stick management have to beat us.

Read Pilot Pete post which sums it all up very well.

:sad:

I'll get the LPL issues addressed. Better still, the local LPL rep is the Deputy Chair of the CC.

You say many consider Balpa a toothless tiger.............but the teeth are the members - What a vicious circle!

If you want a chance of better conditions, join and give us the teeth.

If you don't want a chance of better conditions, stay put and do nothing....but please don't moan at us when things don't go the way you want them.

We act on what the majority of the voting members vote for......nothing else.

Flaps 1, "We act on what the majority of the voting members vote for......nothing else." Well, from my view point it appears to always be the other way round. The CC pushed the 5/2/5/4 thing down our throats with all sorts of threats of what bad things would happen if the vote was a no. Not the company nor the pilots. The CC.
It would be great if the CC actually had the gumph to turn around and say "this deal sucks and definately don't vote for it guys." But instead what I always hear from easyJet Balpa is that "you morons better vote for this cos it's the best deal going." If the Balpa reps were to say everyone join up, vote no, and then lets get some real negotiations going, then I'd join up straight away. Thats the toothless tiger part that others mention.
But in the years I've been in easy not once has the CC said the deal sucks. A strong CC = strong membership. At the moment, whether right or wrong, the CC come across as being nothing more than a managment mouthpiece. Thats my point of view, and I don't see the point of returning my salary back to management in the form of Balpa fees.

What complete and utter nonsense!

We spend more time saying no than yes. Ther ahve already been a bucket load of no's before it gets anywhere near a vote.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If you think we are a management mouthpiece then just think what you would have to suffer if we were not here.

Yes, we pushed the deal because the alternative on offer was bordering on disaster.

The existing status quo was not an option. It was not on the table for discussion or negotiation. It was 5/2/5/4 or random (flexible) rostering, min contractual leave, and 20 days less off per year than now.

So at least now we know what you would have voted for!

I'll make no more comments on this thread.

Some of ou still don't get it do you? The CC can make a recommendation of how to vote, sure. But if they come out and say the deal sucks, vote NO, then what happens? They go into negotiations with no position to demand anything, due to there being not enough support for further action!

Don't you see that the only way they can tell you to vote no, force the company into some meaningful negotiation and have any chance of being heard, is through having a high enough membership that says to the company, "we're not happy, we are willing to negotiate (and think of the problems you're gonna have if you refuse). We are recommending to our members to vote NO." That is what they need to force the company's hand.

Really? What's FlapsOne saying here then?It takes as many of you as possible to ditch the prejudices, put your money where your mouth is and DEMAND to be heard by your BALPA CC. Demand a meeting, tell them what agenda you have and give them the power to negotiate it for you. THEN judge them on their results.

PP

ps I think my 1% is one of the best investments I have made in aviation. Each year my CC negotiate Ts&Cs that usually far outstrip the 1% I give to their parent body.

Yeah, I can't be bothered either.

Ooops, that was for Flaps 1. But it\'s obvious there is a communication problem between the ayes and nayes, so whats needed is a different approach that can bridge the gap, because the believers are true born agains and the non believers (me) are scornful.
How to bridge the gap?

Scroggs wrote this in another forum:

Thats what a company council backed by a large proportion of the workforce can achieve.

Now will you believe :ok:

No scottie I don't consider myself thick as you do. Once again what could have been a serious discussion has degenerated to the them and us camps that gets us no where. What I have highlighted is my concerns and that expressed by others. You can either stick your head in the sand and tell us we're talking c**p or you can attempt to address those concerns and increase membership. I am NOT anti BALPA I was a member for 6 years, but I wont put my blind faith into it again until that faith is justified.

Again, lets have a major drive for all. Use the company e-mail, crewroom walls anything and everything to promote a positive outcome. Flaps 1 if the company is truely giving us a take it leave it attitude then tell the membership and push the workforce to take the necessary steps. We all know they can't afford us to take things to the ultimate conclusion. If you put your balls on the line so will I, thats what I want to see and then I will pay for the experience! As I have said on another post even members I have spoken to have NO idea what is going on at present.

Unfortunately the join 'cos i tell you so simply doesn't work anymore. I agree with what you say Pilot Pete but the problem is the union isn't talking to us that aren't members, how then does it intend to increase membership. I apprecaite it's a chicken and egg situation but BALPA could do a lot more to retify this. What's required is three things....communication,communication and communication :ok:

Nimrod - if you put as much effort into finding out about BALPA as you do about whinging.........

Yours is still a pathetic excuse and I'm sick and tired of nonmembers who mainly are too tight to put their hand in their pockets or just downright lazy.

I'm not CC just an ordinary line pilot.

Oh brother.................I give up. Another member lost!!

Well excuse me Nimrod if I feel a little pissed off but having totalled my BALPA subs whilst in eJ it comes to well over £1300.

That's my money trying to improve our terms and conditions. In crew rooms when trying to convince people to join BALPA you get the same banal excuses over and over again.

"Toothless tiger", "only looks after the trainers", "do they actually do anything?" etc etc. They know full well that without BALPA our T&C's would have gone much further downhill. Yet they refuse to try and improve their lot and are more than happy for others to foot the bill. "If you guys go out on strike I'll join" (bit bl**dy late).

The BALPA you were in are not the BALPA you would be joining. BALPA is the umbrella organisation and the CC drives things forward.

I've been tempted to leave many times myself but have stuck with it in the vain hope that we gain some critical mass and improve our lot.

Anyway bring on paying for your own recurrent training, paying for your hotac, car parking etc etc. I can't wait :E

That is the kind of BS we have been listening to for the past 3 years. OF COURSE we could stop it. I guarantee the CC could gain a lot of credibility if they stopped going on about "our excellent working relationship with managment" and started putting a rocket up their a$$es instead!

People seem hung up on the consequences of a "no" vote. Numbers are one thing, but commitment is another. A small, committed number of BALPA members in EZY, with good leadership from the CC could make EZY flight ops managment VERY uncomfortable with a little thought and application. We arent Ryanair for pete's sake, we have employment protection! We don't have to go on strike, just carry extra fuel or work to rule. Controlled industrial action (why go for a strike straight away?) can have devastating results, even if just by 25% of the workforce.

I still pay my subs if only to support the cause. However the 5/2/5/4 process was in no way worth the money (the research and the idea yes, the sh!tty, company-orientated protocal, no) so, in keeping with the title of this thread - i'm off to greener pastures!

"That is the kind of BS we have been listening to for the past 3 years. OF COURSE we could stop it. I guarantee the CC could gain a lot of credibility if they stopped going on about "our excellent working relationship with managment" and started putting a rocket up their a$$es instead!"


If you do not have enough members to light a fuse with enough gunpowder (members) in it the management will just thnk they had a good curry the night before.

Scottie,
I am no longer a Balpa member but trust me I have contributed much more that £1300 in Balpa subs in my time at EZY so dont come with how much you have put into it, whether there are enough members or not the results have not been there, every pilot has been shafted as for the FOs dont even go there, just go and have a look on the inside EZY forums to see whether its a fair deal or not, FOs on a four sector days gets paid less than a junior in sector pay...Hello!!!
Good luck with your further subs.
Tata for now

Springbok if you're that bitter about the whole thing perhaps you should try for greener pastures :ok:

Didn't R.W. say a similar thing a while back? Just how snug are management and Balpa then?:ok:

I don't speak for BALPA, that's just my opinion :ok:

Thanks for your valuable advise Scottie, fortunately I had already made the decision a little while ago...

On a personal scale I find the new rostering deal much more fatiguing than the previous, I realy cant cope with the 5 earlies no matter how early I go to bed...

Good luck dudes and watch this space because I understand that there is a fair bit of dirt not far from being dished out...

Next month will mark the end of my loyalty bonus which BALPA recommended members vote in favour of relinquishing.

I have never previously heard of a union recommending that members vote for a pay cut for 50% of the members in a profitable company.

BALPA you have done NOTHING for me in easyJet. You are the weakest link.

Goodbye.

Good post 10002level, sad but true... :sad:

At least you haven´t lost your sense of humor. :)