Brexit/ACMI/Lack of UK recruitment
 

Does anyone know what the deal is with ACMI in the UK and at what point the tables may turn in favour of the many unemployed British pilot's?

At present there are numerous EU ACMI operators filling the gaps for UK airlines which is allowing them to get away with not recruiting crew. These are UK airlines operating on a UK AOC and they now have European ACMI operators with EASA crews flying on their behalf.

Currently ACMI operators have a big presence at most major UK airports. They are operating flights on behalf of several major UK airlines including easyJet, Jet2, TUI and others, all of whom would be forced to employ UK licensed pilots should the EU ACMI market not be there to provide short to medium term crewing solutions.

I'm hoping that this will come to an end at the end of the 2 year grace period and UK licensed pilots may have some opportunities thrown their way soon however I fear that as long as this practice is allowed to continue there will be little to no opportunities for those of us who have been unfortunate enough to fall foul of Brexit and Covid.

Does anyone know if this will be legal next summer or if we can expect some hefty recruitment over the winter? At present the job boards are becoming increasingly depressing given that we are now seeing pre 2019 levels of demand.

Ask that Charlatan Grant Shapps or whatever name he uses this month for tax purposes.........he’ll set you straight!! T

This doesn’t answer your question but …


I believe Jet2, DHL Air U.K. and Ryanair are amongst those recruiting for U.K. bases at this time.

Regarding the Brexit effect, the U.K. government has made it quite clear they value ideology over pragmatism, and it doesn’t look like things are going to change any time soon.

Jet2 - opened recruitment but haven't replied to me or anyone else I know - whilst Vamos, Smartlynx and Air Tanker operate their flights throughout their bases.

Ryanair - FO's only advertised at the moment.

DHL - did take a few guys earlier in the year.

I suspect most airlines will be doing everything they can to not recruit until next year when the picture is clearer re Russia, Covid, fuel prices but most of all the financial crisis that could really screw J2, TUI and others.

Have you actually paid any attention to U.K. aviation over the last 20 years? Summer ACMI contracts are nothing new and have been used by all the big players every summer. What business resources to its peak requirements with very expensive assets only to see them sit idle for half of the year?

The issue raised by the OP is not about the usage of ACMI operators per se. It is the situation brought about by Brexit whereby EU ACMI carriers whom UK pilots cannot work for are operating UK flights that would otherwise be crewed by UK pilots.

We are not allowed to work in our own backyard essentially. Just imagine for a nanosecond if EU train drivers were brought in to operate for UK railway companies whilst unemployed UK train drivers could not work for them. The whole network would grind to a halt until Grant Shapps was dragged in by his underpants to do something about it.

Ok, I concede that is a fair point, but the issue still stands that U.K. airlines are not going to resource fully to peak levels without an opportunity to off load that cost in the quieter months. There are only 2 U.K. players in the ACMI market and both are fully utilised. Maybe they need to increase their capabilities, or we need more U.K. based operators to service the market.

DHL Air uk has recruited a lot of pilots this year and continue to do so.

They've hired people with x000 hrs on boeings or other widebody jets. That doesn't apply to a large chunk of UK pilots and they have practically no other options. .

Ryanair, Ezy, TCX, J2 are among the previous employers of pilots I’m involved with training at the moment. No LEPs certainly but by no means is everyone as you describe.

They've all got jet hours and I'm willing to bet the majority also have more than 1000 or 1500hrs. The point remains that there are few to no opportunities for pilots with turboprop hours, those with low hours or those fresh from flight school.

From what I can see, almost everyone I know who didn't have a job last year has now got one. Mostly they even have jobs that they want. The ramp up in recruitment of experienced pilots really got going mid winter, and from what I hear, getting peeps properly checked and in their seats is taking a long time. I would guess, as is always the way, those with the least experience find it hardest at the back of the queue.

No argument from me on that. We did our big LEP hiring a few years ago, now picking up a lot of redundees from a variety of airlines, some UK, some not.

Well, that is exactly what was negotiated by your government in the TCA with the EU: ACMI from the EU to the UK is still possible, from the UK to the EU only in exceptional cases and if the company leasing in can prove that no EU ACMI capacity is available.

Yes. It is not a reciprocal agreement, but apparently Lord Snowflake and Ms Mordaunt wanted it that way. I suggest to vote responsibly the next time around.

Are Jet2 not considering applications from those who have applied for UK licenses? I have applied for the UK CAA FCL and medical a number of months ago, still waiting for them to be issued. I did include this information in the application.

They opened up to NTR earlier in the year, not a sniff since unless you're rated on 777.

"continues to do so" - can you show me the advert please?! I can't see it anywhere.

Thanks for your kind words.

Re ACMI - fair enough and I do understand from a business perspective. However the point remains re our soft government who are allowing UK licensed pilots to be disadvantaged by allowing EU ACMI operators access to the UK market.

Re J2 recruitment - UK licensed 73 Cpt, 6000+ hrs. Not heard a thing.

We’ve been receiving CVs for RHS 767 TR and NTR throughout this year and continue to recruit, select and train for that. I guess when CVs continue to drop on the mat you don’t need to advertise.

Maybe Im missing something.... but from keeping an eye on the job boards daily the fact remains there are little to no jobs advertised for UK licensed pilots, despite demand coming back towards 2019 levels.

Of the ones that have been advertised recently;

OneAir - 74 Cargo job - 65K a year, 3 yr bond, needed to be near London. No non rated Dec positions and even if there were they were offering 85k for a Cpt.

TUI FO's- wanted to take 7k out of the pay for a 6 month contract!!

Titan - wanted EASA Licence holders.

Few private jet jobs - contacts based.

Like I said above, maybe Im missing something and would be really grateful if you can point me in the direction of where these jobs are advertised, because Im not seeing much at all! Thanks

Mine went in a while ago through a mate... fingers crossed something comes of it at some stage. Cheers for the heads up, good to know things still moving.

My guess (and it’s just that) is that with a lot of pilots looking for a small number of jobs, most airlines will have plenty of CVs sent in so no ads needed. It always helps if you know someone in an airline to give a recommend.

Suggest you ask your mate to check progress? Recruiting/selection team is small with a big workload

ACMI starts to become more for cost cutting than to provide additional capacity for airlines. Both aspect play significant role however considering most ACMI pilots are contractors without any kind of social and health insurance, no job guarantee, no income tax payment, I believe crewing at least %50 cheaper for ACMI airlines comparing to UK airlines. UK should never allow any type of non UK service providers as long as majority of UK pilots and UK registered aircrafts back to flying. This should be as well natural reflex for any other EU countries as they must protect their own pilot community and airlines against ACMI companies' grey (illegal) way of doing business.

There are still next to no jobs for UK pilots. Ditto those caught in between with an EASA license and UK citizenship.

Bad planning I hear you say? Not quite, the UK CAA are taking their sweet time and up until earlier this year it was not 100% clear how the EASA/UK thing was going to play out. Even those who did apply last year only received their licenses recently due to the backlog. The CAA seem to be almost proud of their lengthy processing times at this point judging by my communications with them.

Perhaps there should be a thread pointing to all these UK jobs because on and off the forum people talk about them, but when asked to actually point to them they don't seem to be able to. It's like non aviation friends and family being shocked you're still unemployed because "the airports are all packed" .. it's a misguided assumption based on hype.

Wasn't there once a saying about the true sign of an active recruitment market being when BA hire??

https://simpleflying.com/british-air...-lease-routes/

BA are already using wet lease whilst they try and rehire a chunk of the guys they fired in 2020 into BA Lite on significantly reduced T&C's!! Couldn't make it up. And before the smart arse comments roll in again... yes I know its a oneworld thing - it is however allowing BA to fly their summer schedule using non UK crews and removing the necessity to recruit pilots, many of whom were made redundant from BA and now have their old jobs being done by our European cousins.

There is absolutely no doubt that the amount of ACMI going on in the UK right now is allowing airlines to be very conservative with their pilot numbers and as such detrimental to the pool of unemployed UK pilots.

If you hold a UK with TP hours you have no hope. 750 odd pilots dumped by Flybe and just from my close 20ish I stayed in contact with 16 aren’t in aviation at all. Hours range from 700-8000hrs no shortage of experience.

Last year I got EASA to go with my UK and gaining jet hours at the moment. UK and TP is useless at the moment. Well there are some positions in Africa on Q400 if anyones interested…..

J2 are doing 3 assessments a week? 😱

Not heard a peep nor anyone I know has...

It did sound a bit much, maybe he meant some different?

I had heard they were concentrating on Airbus recruitment first

The UK People voted for this, despite all warnings. So maybe less crying now.

"The UK people" did not vote for an agreement whereby foreign pilots can fly within the UK at the expense of British pilots.

Even at that, the referendum was mighty close and the only solid turnout was from those who felt strongly enough about it (I.e. bought into the red bus propaganda). The vast majority were complacent and didn't bother voting, not believing it was ever actually going to happen. Without any shadow of a doubt another referendum today would yield a different result.

Add Wizz to this, who are looking both for EASA and UK license holders.

May not suit everyone long term but it's a good company to get jet hours and command quite quickly. Training capacity is the main issue in WZZ/WUK at the moment.

could also add Lauda Europe to this mix as well. Desperate for UK residents with EASA licences and A320 rated

And that sums up the stupidity of the situation thanks to the decision to leave EASA for purely ideological flag shagging reasons. There will not be any airlines anywhere in Europe requiring a UK licence and the right to live and work in the EU and yet our masters have come up with a situation where an EASA licence is a requirement for a job based in the UK because EU registered aircraft are allowed to be based in the UK. Industry and the CAA didn't want to leave EASA, they could see no advantage to doing so. Shapps will claim it was so that we could diverge on regulation but other than the possibility off a few minor rule changes for GA what parts of safety regulation does he think we are going to go it alone on?

Already the CAA have announced that they are going to fully align with new regulations for UAV's so what was the point? UK pilots have been completely stitched up by this Government.

Absolutely correct biddedout. The odious and oily Shapps has completely sold the UK pilot group out. He holds an FAA licence to fly an N reg aircraft in the UK. Hypocrisy in the red zone even for a politician.

They are and I understand they need people, however I had the offer of a non rated assessment, couldn't make the date offered, now no way of rebooking and no reply from their recruitment team. Ridiculous.

Absolutely correct.

I have given it some thought and can't come up with any other industry where those at the pointy end, responsible for so much and open to such intense scrutiny have been screwed to such an extent.

TBH I think you are knit picking. Anyone that has been in the industry for 30 years will tell you of fallow periods where there were absolutely no jobs anywhere for UK pilots, let alone adverts for them. Post Air Europe, post 9-11 being two that easily come to mind. The current drought lasted 2 years during covid, but even during that there was hiring going on, although often through word of mouth. During the last year all the ads u list and more have popped up on various threads and more. So, yes, many required EASA, so I know quite a few peeps who have transferred at cost, or poorly paid, but at least you're keeping current or out of the UK. None of it is easy, it never was. . Its not worth the sweat worrying over ACMI, or fairness. All that went out the window 30 years ago.I hope you can keep plugging away and find the job you want.:)

you can thank the UK for hopelessly rolling over on this issue, its very much a one way street post-brexit, as far as ACMI, the majority of these are opportunist contracts to increase capacity, if the alternative was for UK airlines to employ more pilots to fly additional leased aircraft, both of whom would sit idle over the Winter costing them millions, then those UK airlines simply wouldnt put the extra capacity on, it wouldnt be worth it.
Its unfair on UK pilots, but same as it ever was.

If you really want to have an impact on the ACMI operations here in the UK I think the best bet is to look into how they’re allowed to work in the UK without appropriate visas… I’m sure all the smartlinx guys living in hotels don’t have the right to work in the UK yet here they are…