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-   -   Norwegian Lay offs (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/625995-norwegian-lay-offs.html)

babemagnet 2nd Oct 2019 12:13

Norwegian Lay offs
 
Latest news 51 pilots loose their job in Spain and102 pilots unpaid leave untill april 2020. 😬

midnight cruiser 2nd Oct 2019 18:19

Oh dear. From the 787, or both fleets?

Vokes55 2nd Oct 2019 21:00

Yawn. When you have 18 aircraft grounded (plus however many should’ve been delivered by now) and 50 engines that need replacing/inspecting, you need fewer crew.

Change the record.

Flightrider 2nd Oct 2019 21:08

^^^^^

Probably has to rank as one of the most insensitive and crass postings I've read on here in quite some time.

Atlantic Explorer 2nd Oct 2019 21:32


Originally Posted by Flightrider (Post 10585086)
^^^^^

Probably has to rank as one of the most insensitive and crass postings I've read on here in quite some time.

he sounds like he is DY management.

Plastic787 2nd Oct 2019 21:39

Post anything negative about Norwegian’s financial well-being and Vokes55 will be first to come out with his fingers between his ears and shouting that all is well. Just like Comical Ali standing in front of the American tanks rolling into Baghdad proclaiming the infidels were being driven out. Makes you wonder who he’s trying to convince.

Calmcavok 3rd Oct 2019 04:39


Originally Posted by Vokes55 (Post 10585077)
Yawn. When you have 18 aircraft grounded (plus however many should’ve been delivered by now) and 50 engines that need replacing/inspecting, you need fewer crew.

Change the record.

What’s your problem?? I’ll assume you’ve never been through a redundancy. It’s only a matter of time in this industry. If you have, then I hope folk were a little more empathetic with you than you are being here. Being kind costs nothing.

Vokes55 3rd Oct 2019 10:37


Originally Posted by Calmcavok (Post 10585291)


What’s your problem?? I’ll assume you’ve never been through a redundancy. It’s only a matter of time in this industry. If you have, then I hope folk were a little more empathetic with you than you are being here. Being kind costs nothing.

I think you’ve misunderstood my point. I’m tired of hearing every single negative rumour about Norwegian as some sort of indication that they’re about to collapse, seemingly to some fanfare from the ignorant souls on the internet who have little to no care about the welfare of those who will lose their jobs.

Ryanair are telling pilots to take 12 months unpaid leave. I am taking unpaid leave in my organisation, voluntarily. Cabin crew are hired on seasonal contracts in a lot of airlines. Here’s some news to some people: The winter is quieter than the summer. And if you have a number of aircraft grounded on top of that, of course companies are going to ask people to take unpaid leave. From what I understand, nobody in Norwegian is being forced into anything, they’ve just been given a number of options which may or may not appeal to them. What happens if they don’t get the required number of volunteers, I don’t know.

So repeat, change the record.

bringbackthe80s 3rd Oct 2019 11:12

Wake up. Respecting your employees does not mean using them when you need them and drop them when you don’t. Honestly I can’t believe this

SaulGoodman 3rd Oct 2019 11:32


Originally Posted by Vokes55 (Post 10585437)


I think you’ve misunderstood my point. I’m tired of hearing every single negative rumour about Norwegian as some sort of indication that they’re about to collapse, seemingly to some fanfare from the ignorant souls on the internet who have little to no care about the welfare of those who will lose their jobs.

Ryanair are telling pilots to take 12 months unpaid leave. I am taking unpaid leave in my organisation, voluntarily. Cabin crew are hired on seasonal contracts in a lot of airlines. Here’s some news to some people: The winter is quieter than the summer. And if you have a number of aircraft grounded on top of that, of course companies are going to ask people to take unpaid leave. From what I understand, nobody in Norwegian is being forced into anything, they’ve just been given a number of options which may or may not appeal to them. What happens if they don’t get the required number of volunteers, I don’t know.

So repeat, change the record.

The fact that you might work for scumbags doesn’t make it right... I’ve lost 8 years career progression due to redundancy, that is quite a bitch I can tell you..

Having said this; if you apply for Norwegian as a contractor, you should know in advance that you are amongst the first ones out when the shit truly hits the fan. Nevertheless, good luck with seeking new opportunities (again).

midnight cruiser 3rd Oct 2019 11:56


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10585476)
, good luck with seeking new opportunities (again).

I think vokes has nary a bridge left unburnt.

Smooth Airperator 3rd Oct 2019 11:57

One thing about Norwegian is that they are masters of BS. Every day there's internal comms about insignificant and irreverent matters yet the big news is always discovered via the media or rumour network. They have totally underplayed the 737Max impact, quoting I think 30 million Euro loss when it's going to be more like 300 million. The RR issues just keep on getting worse with no sign of wet lease ending to fill the gap. None of this is their fault, but the BS impacts career choices and ultimately paints a false picture about job security. They recently announced they will be hiring more pilots for LH soon. Not with the Madrid closure, there's barely enough jobs for those boys and girls.

Plastic787 3rd Oct 2019 17:10


Originally Posted by Vokes55 (Post 10585437)


I think you’ve misunderstood my point. I’m tired of hearing every single negative rumour about Norwegian as some sort of indication that they’re about to collapse, seemingly to some fanfare from the ignorant souls on the internet who have little to no care about the welfare of those who will lose their jobs...
So repeat, change the record.

So if you’re such a snowflake that you can’t stand to hear people raise quite reasonable questions about Norwegian’s questionable finances might I suggest a Professional Pilots Rumour Network is not really the place for you.

Vokes55 3rd Oct 2019 20:59


Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s (Post 10585463)
Wake up. Respecting your employees does not mean using them when you need them and drop them when you don’t. Honestly I can’t believe this

So what do you suggest Norwegian do? Keep everyone employed on full time contracts when they have 25+ aircraft fewer than they planned? That makes great business sense.


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10585476)


The fact that you might work for scumbags doesn’t make it right... I’ve lost 8 years career progression due to redundancy, that is quite a bitch I can tell you..

Having said this; if you apply for Norwegian as a contractor, you should know in advance that you are amongst the first ones out when the shit truly hits the fan. Nevertheless, good luck with seeking new opportunities (again).

Who said where I work? I’ve taken unpaid leave because I wanted to as a lifestyle choice that was offered to me, because despite what the willy-wavers in the BA thread might tell you, there’s more to life than working 900 hours per year. I certainly wouldn’t call my employers scumbags either, but seeing as this thread is awash with personal attacks from people about people they not only don’t know, but have no idea who they work for or any other life circumstances, I’ll join in and suggest maybe your 8 years lost career progression was due to your own life choices, and not anybody else’s fault.




Originally Posted by Plastic787 (Post 10585702)


So if you’re such a snowflake that you can’t stand to hear people raise quite reasonable questions about Norwegian’s questionable finances might I suggest a Professional Pilots Rumour Network is not really the place for you.

Let’s face it, you’re just another BA pilot who’s been brainwashed by his management into believing that Norwegian are the reason your T&Cs have become so dire. I’m surprised you found time in between your 6 long haul trips per month to post on here, let alone on a topic that doesn’t concern you at all.

But in answer to your question, tell me how the ‘news’ at the top of the thread is linked to the company’s “questionable finances”, with evidence.

matt283 3rd Oct 2019 21:12

From what I heard all the Madrid based cabin crew and flight crew will face redundancy...

Company is not respecting seniority in Spain...

Plastic787 3rd Oct 2019 21:19

Vokes55 quite frankly you’re embarrassing yourself. You’re a complete caricature and becoming beyond parody. You do realise the irony in calling out people as willy-wavers making assumptions about people they don’t know and in the same breath going on the attack about BA’s “six trips a month”. None of which applies to me.

For the record we’ve seen an emergency rights issue and putting up their Gatwick slots as collateral in a push to delay repayment of bonds. Add to that the retrenchment of the airline throughout Europe and cancellation of routes and credit card companies withholding payments added to the current news contained within this thread. None of which paint a rosy picture of the financial situation at the airline. The total liabilities they are sitting on (over £6Billion) are eye watering. Now you can point out these are moves to stabilise the airline’s economic situation but, if you do, you are conceding that the economic situation was bad to begin with and the airline has been (up to this point) grossly mismanaged. Which illustrates the point that many of us commentating on Norwegian’s financials have been making all along. You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid Vokes, if these measures are being taken it’s because the business model was completely bogus.

I know you and others in the past (before the extension of the bond deadline and the rights issue) have been glossing over the debt situation by saying the debt was needed for expansion. Now the company are realising that trying to grab market share and grow into profitability is absolutely impossible at the fares that Norwegian charge with their level of overheads. The business model has been flawed the entire way along and if they couldn’t do it at a time when the aviation industry as a whole has been reporting record profitability then God knows how bad it’s going to be in a world economic recession.

Norwegian are not in a good place Vokes. Believe it or not I don’t take any great pleasure in that largely because - as we’ve seen with recent events at Thomas Cook - it isn’t pleasant when our colleagues in other airlines are put out of work. I’ve been through it myself. It’s not pleasant when people speculate in a negative fashion and you might not like what you hear (for whatever reason) but acting like a spoilt child, sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming and shouting all you like doesn’t change that reality and should not stifle the debate about a company in genuine difficulty and Norwegian are definitely in this category.

Vokes55 3rd Oct 2019 21:29


Originally Posted by matt283 (Post 10585877)
From what I heard all the Madrid based cabin crew and flight crew will face redundancy...

Company is not respecting seniority in Spain...

From what I heard they are discussing options with unions, and will almost certainly be offered transfers. As happened with the Canaries and EDI base. Whether Madrid crew want to transfer to other bases is up to them.

matt283 3rd Oct 2019 21:44


Originally Posted by Vokes55 (Post 10585890)


From what I heard they are discussing options with unions, and will almost certainly be offered transfers. As happened with the Canaries and EDI base. Whether Madrid crew want to transfer to other bases is up to them.

Unions got informed by the company about starting redundancy process for all Madrid based crew.

Decision to close TFS and LPA has been cancelled.

Only Spanish base closed so far was PMI and yes crew got transfers, but with MAD it is different case - Norwegian already started redundancy process - ere.

Doors to Automatic 3rd Oct 2019 21:55

From detailed analysis I have carried out to advise investors in DY, I would say that Plastic787’s analysis is absolutely spot on.

Last year the airline made NOK 1.3bn during Q3, which was swallowed up halfway through Q4. Since then they have issued more shares, sold off assets and effectively defaulted on a huge loan, putting up their LGW slots as security in return for an extension. I am willing to bet the bondholders had no choice.

Despite their proclamations about turning the company around and morphing dramatically from growth to profitability, Q1 and Q2 seat costs are around 20% higher than 2018.

Summer 2019 passengers and revenues have been broadly flat in July and August and so unless there has been a dramatic reduction in the seat cost trend it is likely Q3 will not make anywhere near the profit of Q3 2018.

If this comes to pass (we should find out next week), it will be a very tough Winter. I hope I am wrong but I don’t see a rosy future for this airline, just based on figures and trends I have analysed recently,

RoyHudd 3rd Oct 2019 23:08

Too much overcapacity. Wafer thin margins. Ludicrous growth projections, propagated in part by a/c manufacturers. Road crash ahead.


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