Even though some things may have changed for the better temporarily at Ryanair they are still a terrible company in my book and should be avoided if at all possible. That includes their group companies as well of course.

Personally I would say Jet2, Tui and Ryanair in that order.

Things have improved recently at Jet2 and Ryanair but as the post above says Ryanair still have a way to go. Tui seems to be in a state of flux right now aircraft wise maybe with a lack of aircraft and Jet2 seem to be going towards Airbus which might be a shrewd business move. I worry that Jet2 might be biting off more than they can chew sometimes but you have to be aggressive I guess in business, look at Ryanair.

Just my thoughts based on some experience.

Any B737 jobs out there?
 

I just ran into a few old friends that was a bit frustrated with present employer.
Can any of You be so kind and update us on who is taking Senior FOs and Direct Entry Captains in Europe.
Just out of pure curiosity: Is RYR active whatsoever with regards to recruitment?
Does Norwegian need pilots when the Max comes?
Interesting year ahead.

Happy Landings
Cpt B

I understand that Jet2 have suspended B737 recruitment temporarily. I have a disappointed close relative who was very keen to transfer to them, as a good friend who is already there, had very positive things to say about employment and morale at Jet2. Timing was just wrong, which was a shame as the relative had the hours and experience and was looking to relocate anywhere just to be back in the uk.

Can you quantify that?

You make it sound like there were numerous, whereas I believe that number to be very few indeed.

Historically people did not come back to J2 from TUI but those days have ended. Several returns from TUI are in the system for this training season, and I personally know two recent rejoiners: one from BA and one from Virgin, both citing lifestyle, the former felt like just a number at BA, the latter wanted to be home to see his kids grow up. I was pleasently surprised to see a grown up response to their returns from the company, no interview was required just a quick sim check to keep HR happy and within, 6 months they both were on command courses.

I think the fact remains that TUI is still a very good company to be part of and mainly due to its legacy conditions. These conditions have been watered down significantly over the year, but relative to other airlines, they are good. But the pressure is relentless from management to reduce the lifestyle.

What seems to be clear is that Jet2 have had to up their game significantly in recent years in order to attract the pilots they need, commensurate with their expansion plans. Jet2 is now significantly larger than the TUI uk fleet.

I work for TUI and worry that Jet2 offer a superior holiday product to TUI. Once the public wake up to this, I fear for TUI!

Drinking out of a puddle is the alternative faced a thirsty person.
Ryan air is toxic.

I left Jet2 to return to Ryanair. I wouldn't describe Ryanair as toxic more that if you know what you're getting and more importantly not getting and can live with that and enjoy it then you'll get along just fine. Quick commands at both RYR and Jet2 but several years wait at Tui i believe.

The 5/4 roster was the reason for me, I can plan for my kids now and as ones just started school and another starting next year it works a treat for us.

Oh the irony! No long ago, time to command at TUI was around 15 years. To wait less than 5 years is simply extraordinary. And appears now to be taken for granted!

Time and hrs to command!
 

Just out of curiosity: What is the hrs needed and time to command in Jet2 and RYR now.

Last I heard a few months ago, in Ryanair it is 2900 hours plus at least a winter season in the company and two good previous sim sessions.

Indeed Banana Joe, but last upgrade finished linetraining late fall, or rather an OCC that I ran into. He just made the last course last summer I believe.
So the question is rather when is the next upgrade planned.
Lots of FOs with way past 2900hrs now. Mind you some are not flying much this winter, rumor has.
Any updates form the upgrades in RYR and other 737 operators, anyone?

Jet2 is 3000 factored hours to apply, a good recent training history and 6 months post FLC for a new joiner. It is now a positive and rewarding process if you manage to jump through the many hoops they have created.

Similar to RYR however things are starting to slow down depending on your base preference, slots will forever be available in LBA for example but the Boeing que for MAN is currently 35 people long and growing, with the majority currently biding their time in LBA for at least a year. Also all 757 pilots have recently been told they are guaranteed a place in MAN once the fleet goes in 23/24 in their current role.

I know nobody has a crystal ball to predict the future, but how is Brexit going to affect Jet2 in the future? Will they still have their ALC base?
How big is the holding pool for 737 FO's and is there any timeline for next recruitment drives?

The ALC base is long established and having recently invested in quite a bit of airport property at the overseas bases I would imagine their future is quite secure, if anything I would expect more bases to open in a few years once the dust has settled.

As for the 737... everything, and I do mean everything, has turned its focus onto the Airbus program and the mad scramble to get it up and running in the next few weeks. Things will start up again but if I had to guess I would say they are crewed up for this season and it will be Autumn before it starts again.

TUI seems to have the better working conditions

As a long term prospective employer you don’t have to look much further than the three airlines very varying loyalty to those recently employed/ in holding pools, and response to the challenges the wiser airline community currently face in the near to mid future.

from very good sources I understand one of the following statements can be linked to each of the OPs identified three airlines.

Airline a) cutting and carving crews with abandon.

Airline b) informing those in the hold pool they are no longer needed after assuring those passing assessment they were needed (meanwhile continuing to assess further candidates)

Airline c) securing everybody in employment and keeping promises and looking to mitigate the challenges by offering crews part time/unpaid summer leave/varying flexible Agreed options

It may be possible to determine who A who B and who C are, I also understand C also owns their own hotels, ocean liners have good loss of licence/PHI benefits as well as concessionary travel amongst many perks. If anecdotal evidence proves to be true then there’s a varying degree of loyalty to newly started/holding pool individuals

it’s fair to say low cost suits some people, but there are many benefits to a more upmarket airline that others may enjoy. In simple terms do your research in each case and ascertain how you want to be treated through your career. And how desperate you are for the left hand seat. Prob 24 months difference for the right candidate from the more basic low cost airline/ to the less low cost airline cheap and cheerful holiday/ to the more upmarket airline/tour operator.

Ryr just had their pay proposal in the UK voted down.

In the proposal was a payrise of about 0.7% a year for capts, and a huge 80,000 cut for new upgrades over a period of 8 years...

They have thrown their toys out the pram so badly, they have forced STN and EDI bases to a 5/3 roster at their latest attempt to threaten and blackmail staff to accept another paycut....

Karanou which one of these airlines will make you redundant the quickest? Tip ask a 100 from 2010, there’s no loyalty from airlines when times are tough. Make your choice based on what works for you and any mouthes you need to feed.

What he said. May I add, in this time and age there is simply no need for charter operations.

High load factors and record bookings, even in the current climate, would suggest otherwise.

Passengers on UK Charter Airlines also have ATOL protection, which many members of the public, regrettably, have used of late.

I think we are on roughly the same page there.

I guess the more aggressive business model company will likely cut you adrift more clinically as you are purely an asset to be used and abused. With a great view from the office window of course! In the same circumstance as present news I think you can plainly see who would cut you adrift at the slightest challenge to the airline, then who you may have slightly more loyalty from and who would actually keep you as far as practicable. The proof is in the three respective actions recently. I understand my account to be reasonably factual as I’ve sources in all three airlines. It’s there it’s as factual as I can be. It appears to be happening thus .

We all have differing circumstances, outlook and life experience. And view of the future. With this in mind and considering the chance of which outfit has a stronger long term future, the truth is nobody really knows. However you may also, have to factor in the OP question about the three B737 outifits and relate summararily the potential from the non B737 operators who are aggressively currently muscling into the charter/package holiday market. EasyJet are a very strong and wealthy airline and in the three quoted airlines I think it’s fair to say, and I stand correcting here, are looking to enter the market somewhere in a similar position to Jet2. I’m no expert but my understanding is that Ryanair are still a point to point low cost operator.

However, If RYR/Wizz et al also look to follow ezy move, and look for reach further into this area of opportunity by business model amendment then you may well have 4 airlines now in the lower echelons of the holiday package market (don’t quote me on this.... and if MOL is reading - you don’t need to go here it will cost you too much money. Honestly) 🙂 then all vying for the same hotels same routes trying to expand continually. That would become quite a cat fight god forbid it happened.

Ill be honest on a personal travel level then the days of me buying stand alone stuff has plateaued. I still do it in certain circumstance but have gone back to the full covered package in recent times. For reasons stated in a post above

Interesting times indeed. It’s certainly time to do very far and wide research when looking to select your career airline. I still maintain being treated right with respect and humility is important to many people. Some will accept anything under the guise of company propaganda. But Conversely many will have the ability to see outside this.

On a similar note, only one of the above airlines is repatriating all of their customers from Italy this week.

Massive thread drift but TUI and particularly Jet2 have little to fear from Easyjet or God forbid, Ryanair, entering into the package holiday market.

It's called customer service. The latter two dont have any. They are fine to get a cheap return ticket to a city of your choice but no way would any sane individual trust their yearly family holiday to be run be either of them. For sure they will be cheap, but you will get what you pay for.

Update!
 

Here is a quick question for all of You:
Is anyone hiring as of the last week? Ie, Has any of You been on courses that has been canceled etc?
I know there is a slight delay , especially in larger airlines, but quite frankly, any airline that has not stopped ANY hiring until further notice must be severely out of touch with reality.
Same goes for upgrades.
Good luck to all.

BTW
I took a rather dead end job in 1989 as an instructor and finally got my Class3 Instructor , as opposed to some of my more picky classmates in Gimli that only hung around places with twin aircraft.
I knew the economy was slowing down.
Found out what Resession was like ,the hard way, and here we go again!
Its all about economy and longterm goals,,,
Regards
CptB

With the greatest possible respect,
this sounds like you are trying to sell things to yourself, based on a decision you made. Did you recently join, or are planning to join TUI?

Upmarket airline? The passengers are the same bog-standard mix you get on any European airline. They get on, have a drink, buy a bit of food and duty free. Then they get off. Sounds a bit pretentious to pretend otherwise. ‘Upmarket’ would be flying in First or Business on a full service airline.

Regarding securing people’s futures... they didn’t about 10 years ago. And like all airlines they’ll do whatever they need to do this time around. Some guys who joined recently are being forced on to a fleet they didn’t want (permanently) after being promised something else. Just like other airlines do.

I wasn’t aware of B telling the hold pool it wasn’t needed, but I will enquire this week. Sounds like a load of rubbish.

More fake news and misinformation probably.

Did the TUI brigade see what the Company did to their Colleagues in TUIfly Nordic?

Business as usual.

“With the greatest possible respect,
this sounds like you are trying to sell things to yourself, based on a decision you made. Did you recently join, or are planning to join TUI?”

Not personally, but for balance person giving me the lowdown may have this angle.

“I wasn’t aware of B telling the hold pool it wasn’t needed, but I will enquire this week. Sounds like a load of rubbish”

Maybe a wise move go ask the question prior posting publicly. I have it on good authority they dropped people like a hot potato. ‘after assessing, placing in a hold pool then confirming - the job no longer exists’ happy to be corrected should you find out different. Again I may be off the mark happy for you to correct me if this is the case.

Can you clarify, do you mean after they were put into a hold pool or after they had been offered a start date ?

I know people in the hold pool with B, and I haven’t heard that.

Would not have thought this a few weeks ago, but, if I had to choose between these three in the current climate, I would delay that choice as long as possible. To misquote, 'it's only when the tide has gone out, do you discover who isn't wearing a swimsuit'.

Well, two guys I know in the pool haven’t been told that. If true, and it’s the ones with minimal experience, then I feel sorry for them. I can’t see the benefit of any company dropping them from the pool. I know how it works at Company B, and the pool isn’t picked from based on date of interview - they pick on suitability, experience and availability to name but a few criteria. There’s really no benefit in taking them off file.

Obviously there must be some benefit to the airline to drop people out of the pool. Otherwise they wouldn’t do it.

challenging times ahead for all airlines. Hopefully the negative effects don’t impact any more people than absolutely necessary.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what Jet2 are doing with their crew during this period? It's been quite public what TUI and Ryanair are doing but, unless I've missed something, very quiet from Jet2?

No news from my friend on the inside.