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Penny Finally Dropping at RYR???
Pal sent this to me over weekend, looks like Penny finally dropping, im not going to print screen everything he sent but basically memo sent out saying all new recruits in UK will now receive salaries below from 1st Sep, perhaps a sign of the model to come and the tide is finally turning.https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...f72d82a92e.jpg,
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Originally Posted by jonesyinthesky
(Post 10234178)
Pal sent this to me over weekend, looks like Penny finally dropping, im not going to print screen everything he sent but basically memo sent out saying all new recruits in UK will now receive salaries below from 1st Sep, perhaps a sign of the model to come and the tide is finally turning.https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...f72d82a92e.jpg,
The figures look okay, however, unless there’s a culling of senior management (unlikely while profits remain vast), the culture will not change. IMHO a change of culture is what’s needed for Pilots and Cabin Crew to settle their ’Beef’ and stop leaving in droves. For so many years now, it’s not really been about money, it’s been about fair and transparent basing, annual leave policies and basic dignity and respect for ‘employees’. It is paradoxical that an airline with a fantastic fixed pattern roster (if you’re in your base of choice) and which is hugely profitable can not retain its staff. It’s so glaringly obvious for everyone except those Clowns in Dublin. Unfortunately, they’re so wealthy and therefore arrogant, they just don’t (need to) care! |
Originally Posted by 737 Jockey
(Post 10234196)
The figures look okay, however, unless there’s a culling of senior management (unlikely while profits remain vast), the culture will not change. IMHO a change of culture is what’s needed for Pilots and Cabin Crew to settle their ’Beef’ and stop leaving in droves. For so many years now, it’s not really been about money, it’s been about fair and transparent basing, annual leave policies and basic dignity and respect for ‘employees’. It is paradoxical that an airline with a fantastic fixed pattern roster (if you’re in your base of choice) and which is hugely profitable can not retain its staff. It’s so glaringly obvious for everyone except those Clowns in Dublin. Unfortunately, they’re so wealthy and therefore arrogant, they just don’t (need to) care! But instead let's just make Joe Public think that all Ryanair pilots want is money, by uploading on Ryanair corporate website payslips only showing the GROSS amount of a Base captain (that also holds the LTC qualification) flying 100h+ while he/she enjoys an industry leading NASA approved roster. |
Very cheeky to include "Expenses Allow." in these tables.
They are comparing the salary to Jet2, who provide HOTAC, taxis, hire cars, uniform, drinks etc. Other expenses are also reimbursed. If you take the expenses out of the comparison, a RYR FO earns 4.7% less than their J2 counterpart. |
….Did you also not notice that the actual increase in total earnings for a Captain was 1%??
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Jet2 have also introduced profit share. Estimated £4500 per annum plus another 3% plus a few grand pay rise in April (estimated). So you can add another £10,500 to the Jet2 column. Plus they pay for everything. Still it’s a push in the right direction for Ryanair. Also didn’t Ryanair also say that Ryanair Pilots earn 20% more than Jet2 Pilots in an original memo? Guess 12% is a step backwards. |
When will the finally learn that clever as they think they are everyone is just as clever as them and sees right through their bull****.
Sadly, no. Penny hasn't dropped yet |
Happy to see that they finally adjusted the basic salary. Now people can plan with a decent salary. However there's much more to come. Starting by providing free water for example. Also that month off BS should stop. What is it worth to have 10 AL?? Give the people their 25-30 AL and things start to look better. Now add a seniority list and add a couple of days AL for people being in the company for ages. Plus a bidding system for AL based on seniority. The staff shortage will solve itself. I'm sure many people would like to go back to Ryanair.
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Originally Posted by Luke258
(Post 10234298)
Happy to see that they finally adjusted the basic salary. Now people can plan with a decent salary. However there's much more to come. Starting by providing free water for example. Also that month off BS should stop. What is it worth to have 10 AL?? Give the people their 25-30 AL and things start to look better. Now add a seniority list and add a couple of days AL for people being in the company for ages. Plus a bidding system for AL based on seniority. The staff shortage will solve itself. I'm sure many people would like to go back to Ryanair.
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Originally Posted by jonesyinthesky
(Post 10234302)
memo says they want to replace current holiday system in UK with 4 blocks of 5 days plus 8 ad hoc days and base transfers will be based on seniority and base transfer lists published etc
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At least you know where you are with RYR, you haven't got a clue at jet2. RYR is 5/4 Jet2 is a random roster.
But don't worry everything will be fine at Jet2 next year as they've learnt from the mistakes. However a more experienced colleague stated in the crew room this week. 'Ive heard the same message every year for the last 9 years'. |
The memo that went with those figures was of the usual bullying variety, BALPA reps not rolling over and doing what RYR want so they try to go direct to the crews and cut the BALPA team out, they have a long way to go before the penny drops!
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Leopards & Spots
Originally Posted by Well Used
(Post 10234360)
......................However a more experienced colleague stated in the crew room this week. 'Ive heard the same message every year for the last 9 years'.
Have Ryanair changed? A bit. Will they change more? If they need to. The only reason airlines change the Ts & Cs is when they lose too many crew, market economy at the moment. As the £ heads for parity with €, watch the number of guys opting for jobs that pay in €s |
Originally Posted by Well Used
(Post 10234360)
At least you know where you are with RYR, you haven't got a clue at jet2. RYR is 5/4 Jet2 is a random roster.
But don't worry everything will be fine at Jet2 next year as they've learnt from the mistakes. However a more experienced colleague stated in the crew room this week. 'Ive heard the same message every year for the last 9 years'. Pray tell what mistakes? Jet 2 have always had a random roster If you colleagues of 9 years doesn't like it.... |
Since when was salary the issue with RYR ?
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Since you cannot avoid paying taxes
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At least you know where you are with RYR, you haven't got a clue at jet2. RYR is 5/4 Jet2 is a random roster. |
Originally Posted by Elephant and Castle
(Post 10234642)
Since you cannot avoid paying taxes
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Do TREs have a different calendar JFP? |
Originally Posted by Johnny F@rt Pants
(Post 10234723)
Yes we do. They're on the triple CCC system... Curry Club Calendar |
Pilots will treat FR as a serious option when the current organ grinders depart with their vast share options and their millions in the bank. Until then it will remain a revolving door. |
Would like to see MOL work for £130k a year, a monkey really could do his job better! |
Originally Posted by Johnny F@rt Pants
(Post 10234658)
A random roster that is published weeks in advance detailing your days off. You can always use your 3 request days off every month, months in advance. You can also have leave in the peak summer, something that I don’t believe is possible at FR. |
Originally Posted by Johnny F@rt Pants
(Post 10234658)
A random roster that is published weeks in advance detailing your days off. You can always use your 3 request days off every month, months in advance. You can also have leave in the peak summer, something that I don’t believe is possible at FR. Wrong, it is possible here I've just finished my 13 days off in August, which was 5 days of leave on a 5/4/5/4 roster. This was in addition to my previous 13 days off in early July. More summer leave this year than ever before with my previous lot! |
Originally Posted by MaverickPrime
(Post 10234774)
Would like to see MOL work for £130k a year, a monkey really could do his job better! https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...b348791c69.png |
Plus of course Ryanair guys are flying 900 hours a year, Jet2 do far less.
If you work out an hourly rate Jet2 comes out far better. |
Hours are irrelevant, how many days off do RYR get in comparison to Jet2? Sitting at home on standby is a working day, can’t make any plans or do anything too far from the house. |
Wrong, it is possible here |
That's always going to depend on what exactly you want to do and how far away from work you are. With a 2 hour standby callout there is plenty I do and can do on standby.
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definitely not.
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Originally Posted by Normal Pilot
(Post 10236453)
Hours are irrelevant, how many days off do RYR get in comparison to Jet2? Sitting at home on standby is a working day, can’t make any plans or do anything too far from the house. |
What’s a standby ??...... not had one rostered for the last 3 months !! As for Jet2’s “random” rostering......it’s been pretty much a “fixed” 6 on/ 3 off - 5 on/ 2 off roster for me all summer !! For me personally, as an “old timer”, I’ve just about had it with this company......and I’m not alone in my thoughts. The recent memo from our DFO doesn’t install me with any confidence in it getting any better over the next few years either, as we continually expand. Whoopie Doo......an “extra” 36 pilots are to be recruited for next year above the already inadequate forecasted number needed. Those poor 36 aren’t even going to touch the sides of the problems we are experiencing from the resulting chaos of the company’s outdated attitude to crewing levels. Oh, and the best bit, the company are to recruit yet another “Aircrew Manager” to manage us......that’ll be 3 of them doing effectively nothing !!.......surely making it “37” extra pilots would have more of a beneficial result. You can all have your pissing up the wall competition as to the pros and cons of EXS and RYR but at the end of the day it’s all down to us as individuals and our own selfish needs and wants. I honestly NEVER envisaged the day that I would EVER even entertain the thought, such is my hatred for what MOL has done to my profession, but this old timer is seriously contemplating jumping to the “Dark Side” !! |
One of the best posts I've read in a a while Bam and it sums up sentiment nicely but lets wait and see what JFP has to say on here as it will be the mgt line unlike the crew room where his gob is usually at 'MCT'.
PM due to always being closely guarded by a mgt 'pilot' doesn't have a clue the mess its all in. IMO of course. |
I don't disagree with anything posted above and the new aircrew manager job is a complete joke, however, I spoke to another 'Jet2 old timer' recently who told me two things which really struck me:
Everything at RYR is worse than at Jet2, except the 5-4 roster Taking into account his expenses, he flew 800+ hours last year and earned £2000 (before tax) more than a Jet2 737 Captain, on circa 500 hours.... |
But how many days OFF did he get compared to a Jet2 captain? |
lets wait and see what JFP has to say on here as it will be the mgt line unlike the crew room where his gob is usually at 'MCT'. So, Well Used, apart from typing away from behind your cloak, what have you done to try to make a difference? Some people have me all wrong, I have never said Jet2 is perfect, it isn’t, but I have been around long enough to know that nor is anywhere else. Despite my hatred of FR, they are almost the ideal employer, 5/4 is without doubt a great asset IF you are based at home, if you aren’t it can be a 7/2 roster; they have sorted out their dodgy employment tactics of self employment, and have raised their pay scale. BUT it’s still the same clown running the show, and while he’s there all the good can, and probably will, be undone in a short few weeks when the next down turn arrives. This summer has been a tricky one without a doubt. |
Originally Posted by Johnny F@rt Pants
(Post 10237185)
Nice to know what some “colleagues” think from behind their keyboard. So, Well Used, apart from typing away from behind your cloak, what have you done to try to make a difference? Some people have me all wrong, I have never said Jet2 is perfect, it isn’t, but I have been around long enough to know that nor is anywhere else. Despite my hatred of FR, they are almost the ideal employer, 5/4 is without doubt a great asset IF you are based at home, if you aren’t it can be a 7/2 roster; they have sorted out their dodgy employment tactics of self employment, and have raised their pay scale. BUT it’s still the same clown running the show, and while he’s there all the good can, and probably will, be undone in a short few weeks when the next down turn arrives. This summer has been a tricky one without a doubt. 2. 5/4 a great asset? How? Just as it's great to know your off days, it's equally devastating to know which days you're working when those days happen to fall on important dates in YOUR life, such as kids birthdays, family health issues, important social events etc. Personal experience says there is NO functional flexibility for your benefit unless you're a drinking buddy of someone with influence. And I've seen plenty of guys who knows a guy who'll sort them out, only to be disappointed in the last minute. 3. Sorted out the self employment? Really? Ask some of the 1000s of pilots on self employment if they woke up as employees of ryr Ltd this morning, or expect to do so in the near future. Don't believe the propaganda machine that'll say anything to get enough guys in the front of their a/c. 4. Raised the pay scale? Again, propaganda. There's a productivity bonus added to some pilots' contracts if they increase their productivity above the 900 hours they're already offering to the company. And it's temporary. |
Bloody hell, I can’t do right for doing wrong. I give up. Jet2 isn’t perfect, in my opinion it is better than FR. Fixed roster doesn’t suit me despite the fact that I see it as a benefit to those that it does suit. The new contracts are FR contracts are they not? I am aware of the many who are still on shonky self employed contracts. |
JFP, Nah ive not tried to do anything to support the company other than take roster changes to help, changed duties at very short notice, put up with crap car parking (acknowledged its affecting plenty of MAN airlines) worked days off and fallen for the stories of uncrewed flights and a need to help the customer. That however was up until the first of this month where its now a strictly follow the roster line deal as the help is only one way.
Lets also not forget that everyone thats fleeing Jet2 is going to much bigger metal, thats the reason they're going because they want to fly aircraft that are bigger, FACT. So It must be that the TUI, FR and Norwegian -800s must be much bigger than J2s hence why they're leaving for these pastures, bigger metal right??? It is absolutely nothing to do with some of the poorest crewing and rostering practices I've ever come across in 30 odd years, absolutely nothing to do with roster changes, nothing to do with a lack of meaningful staff travel etc etc etc etc etc. Its purely down to the size of the aircraft, another summer done and a caveat from the DFO that it'll be better next year. Did he pinky swear? It could be really good but there needs to be an urge to make it better for us from the top, whilst the trophy cabinet gets fuller by the week its the people that have done it and these people including myself are now voting with our feet. FRs training system is creaking until January now and i for one am just waiting for a date to return. |
JFP, Nah ive not tried to do anything to support the company other than take roster changes to help, changed duties at very short notice, put up with crap car parking (acknowledged its affecting plenty of MAN airlines) worked days off and fallen for the stories of uncrewed flights and a need to help the customer |
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