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Brexit and Licensing Options
So you are a UK citizen operating on your Shiny UK CAA issued licence but working for a European carrier whois telling you post Brexit you won't have a job! If the Politicians go no transport deal that is.
Said employer is encouraging us to switch out license to another EU country in order to continue working post March 2019. Are other companies pursuing similar avenues? Thoughts welcome. Dear moderators, if this is in the wrong forum, please feel free to move it. Regards. Carve111 Perplexed as always . |
Said employer is encouraging us to switch out license to another EU country in order to continue working post March 2019. The misfortune of having mine stolen (with my flight bag and some 100s euros worth of kit) has in somehow become a secondary problem when compared with the STUPIDITY of the e-Licensing system I have suggested to use to EXPEDITE the process. No need to mention the extortionate fees one need to pay vs. the eternity that it takes to have things done. Can't wait to be done and dusted with this lot. PZ :mad: |
Would it not be wise to switch license just to be safe instead of pinning your hopes and dreams and employment (!!!) on politicians and other paper-pushers?
Really, what is the advantage of a UK-issued license over something that is issued from a different EU country? |
Originally Posted by Nurse2Pilot
(Post 10230968)
Would it not be wise to switch license just to be safe instead of pinning your hopes and dreams and employment (!!!) on politicians and other paper-pushers?
Really, what is the advantage of a UK-issued license over something that is issued from a different EU country? |
Originally Posted by Nurse2Pilot
(Post 10230968)
Really, what is the advantage of a UK-issued license over something that is issued from a different EU country?
After the europeans have moved "offshore" there should be plenty of jobs for us Brits with CAA paperwork! |
But are employment options limited by what country issued your license? Can a UK license holder not apply for and get a job with an EU airline? Similarly, can a Polish license holder not apply for and get a job with a UK airline? Then after getting the job, transfer the license over if needed.
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As of today, you are not limited. They are all the same EASA license, but UK operators state UK issued license or willing to convert.
It's perfectly fine to work in the UK with any license under EASA, but I stand to be corrected on this. Maybe there is a self-imposed restriction on this in the UK. All of my flight school mates are working, one for a Romanian operator with his Italian license, another one in Slovenia, and I recently obtained a job in another country with my Polish issued license. And the same would be possible with a UK license. Until March 2019 if they don't reach a deal. |
Originally Posted by CARVE111
(Post 10230864)
So you are a UK citizen operating on your Shiny UK CAA issued licence but working for a European carrier whois telling you post Brexit you won't have a job! If the Politicians go no transport deal that is.
Said employer is encouraging us to switch out license to another EU country in order to continue working post March 2019. Are other companies pursuing similar avenues? Thoughts welcome. Dear moderators, if this is in the wrong forum, please feel free to move it. Regards. Carve111 Perplexed as always . |
Is there a restriction that says you have to have your Medical issued by a AME licenced in the same country as your EASA licence? |
Originally Posted by hunterboy
(Post 10231325)
Is there a restriction that says you have to have your Medical issued by a AME licenced in the same country as your EASA licence? |
After the europeans have moved "offshore" there should be plenty of jobs for us Brits with CAA paperwork! PZ :yuk: |
Originally Posted by Banana Joe
(Post 10231327)
The state issuing your license must hold your medical records. You transfer these to convert your license with the State Of License Issue form and procedure.
So once your license is in Germany it won't be that easy to move to another CAA. |
Originally Posted by Alpine Flyer
(Post 10231378)
There seem to be some limitations regarding to transfers from Germany as the German CAA (LBA) does not transfer medical data due to data protection concerns (and because the LBA does not have complete medical records as AME only transmit some basic fit/unfit data).
So once your license is in Germany it won't be that easy to move to another CAA. |
Originally Posted by Banana Joe
(Post 10231309)
but UK operators state UK issued license or willing to convert.
Originally Posted by Daysleeper
(Post 10231319)
If (assuming you're a UK citizen) there is no deal then the lack of a licence won't be an issue as you simply won't be legal to work in any job in the EU27 licence or not...but that's OK cos you won't have any right to live there either. (unless you've sorted it separately.) So if you can sort your residency then yes you would be best to change your licence now and forget the UK ever existed.
Originally Posted by papazulu
(Post 10231353)
THAT was a good one, my belly hurts! How is your NHS doing now that you have 350 milions a week of cash to spare? One can't be serious...
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Thanks for the input! I'm guessing you can afford to say no because you had other offers on the table that did not require you to convert your license? I would expect that if I were offered a job but I needed to spend £400, I'd gladly jump on the offer!! Besides, what is £400 when you're facing a massive bond for type rating?
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Originally Posted by Banana Joe
(Post 10231327)
The state issuing your license must hold your medical records. You transfer these to convert your license with the State Of License Issue form and procedure.
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If you are employed by a UK registered airline, you need a UK issued Part FCL The only reason that UK operators ask for a UK issued licence is that it complicates your LPC paperwork if they have to be familiar with the requirements of all the EASA authorities. And each authority could insist on sending someone to observe the check. |
Originally Posted by fly4more
(Post 10231967)
How about BA insist that a pilot must be fluent in English to be able to work there?
. Given how fluent many of the Dutch, Scandinavians, Belgians, Irish, Americans, Canadians, Aussies, New Zealanders etc etc I work with or have worked with are I doubt a language gate would change much at BA....they are way above level 4. |
Originally Posted by fly4more
(Post 10231967)
The CAA once prized itself on maintaining the highest of standards and maintaining them, now its hands are tied by europeanisation. We all know that an ATO in for example, Lithuania or Slovenia are a soft option route to a rating.
Originally Posted by fly4more
(Post 10231967)
For some reason, the German Airlines (and others) are still able to insist a pilot has fluent German to be employed , but in the UK, a pilot only needs to meet a min of Level 4 in English. Germany, for example, do not test or insist on a minimum level 4 in German, were such a thing to exist.You must be "fluent". Therefore , the process is hugely biased.
Originally Posted by fly4more
(Post 10231967)
How about BA insist that a pilot must be fluent in English to be able to work there? Define fluent?
Anyway, do you really think BA is going to hire a level 4?
Originally Posted by fly4more
(Post 10231967)
EASA has created misrepresentation and decidedly non level playing field.
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Originally Posted by fly4more
(Post 10231967)
We all know that an ATO in for example, Lithuania or Slovenia are a soft option route to a rating. And much cheaper than the UK.
For some reason, the German Airlines (and others) are still able to insist a pilot has fluent German to be employed |
Originally Posted by fly4more
(Post 10231967)
Try applying for Virgin without a UK issued licence, you will not get past the first page of the online application.
There are too many dodgy operators and pilots using the perceived weakness of some authorities to obtain a Part FCL, then using this to obtain employment , say in the UK. The CAA once prized itself on maintaining the highest of standards and maintaining them, now its hands are tied by europeanisation. We all know that an ATO in for example, Lithuania or Slovenia are a soft option route to a rating. And much cheaper than the UK. For some reason, the German Airlines (and others) are still able to insist a pilot has fluent German to be employed , but in the UK, a pilot only needs to meet a min of Level 4 in English. Germany, for example, do not test or insist on a minimum level 4 in German, were such a thing to exist.You must be "fluent". Therefore , the process is hugely biased. How about BA insist that a pilot must be fluent in English to be able to work there? Define fluent? EASA has created misrepresentation and decidedly non level playing field. I'm looking forward to post Brexit. About the language, easyJet and other UK operators require ICAO Level 6, which is not easy to get. |
I guess this question doesn't apply if you work for the likes of BA and Virgin etc , but more aimed at UK Pilots who work for foreign companies likes me or indeed trainee UK Pilots.
If the UK is no longer a member state of EASA going forward is it worth having a UK license or is it best to convert now to a member state and continue with EASA. In reality, how many jobs would there be for UK Pilots holding a UK license, I would imagine there would be more oportunities with EASA license. |
Honest question here --- If Brexit does happen in March next year, surely the clamp down will not happen on the 1st of April? I assume there will be a grace period wherein people can move their licenses about as needed for those who are working or for people to move their medicals or whatever paperwork (PPL?) for those who are training? It isn't going to be valid one day and void the next day, surely?
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Originally Posted by Nurse2Pilot
(Post 10235626)
Honest question here --- If Brexit does happen in March next year, surely the clamp down will not happen on the 1st of April? I assume there will be a grace period wherein people can move their licenses about as needed for those who are working or for people to move their medicals or whatever paperwork (PPL?) for those who are training? It isn't going to be valid one day and void the next day, surely?
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Originally Posted by Daysleeper
(Post 10235652)
If there is not a deal then as of 23:00 uk time on 29 March 2019 then yes everything is invalid. It is an absolute cliff edge, guillotine, slammed door, whatever metaphor works for you.
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Originally Posted by Nurse2Pilot
(Post 10235729)
Thanks! Can you point me to the rules that enforces this?
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Thanks for that!
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The EU just blinked it could be just another tactic in negotiations from the totalitarian overlords. |
Originally Posted by Moonraker One
(Post 10236444)
The EU just blinked it could be just another tactic in negotiations from the totalitarian overlords. |
Denti: Now I am a bit confused! reading the third last paragraph where it says that to continue after the cutoff the UK would have to show compliance with the current EASA rules but that is exactly what it would be doing up to the departure date and nothing happens at midnight to change anything!!!!
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Originally Posted by Meikleour
(Post 10236535)
Denti: Now I am a bit confused! reading the third last paragraph where it says that to continue after the cutoff the UK would have to show compliance with the current EASA rules but that is exactly what it would be doing up to the departure date and nothing happens at midnight to change anything!!!!
which requires us to be subject to ECJ rulings modifying or adding to existing regulation. Without any form of vote or ability to lobby those changes. Great plan that one! What reason will the EASA or the EU have to protect UK interests in passing future legislation? We wanted out, we got out, we not have to accept the consequences. Or have a peoples vote to reverse this nonsense. |
Originally Posted by Meikleour
(Post 10236535)
Denti: Now I am a bit confused! reading the third last paragraph where it says that to continue after the cutoff the UK would have to show compliance with the current EASA rules but that is exactly what it would be doing up to the departure date and nothing happens at midnight to change anything!!!!
What many in the UK do not seem to grasp, including most of the government, is the simple fact that at the moment there is a simple legal process to be done: Following the rules of the EU for leaving the EU, which means negotiating the separation agreement, which is only a legal document, not a political statement, and has to stay completely within the current EU rule framework. Any future relationship, phase 2 of the negotiations, is a different thing completely, and will not be negotiated until march, or even the end of the extended transition period if there is a separation agreement. The EU treats it as what it sees it: a legal procedure. Nothing more, nothing less. * 3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period. |
. A colleague got the following reply from Dame Deidre Hutton, the head of the CAA. She says of the licencing confusion (these are quotes from the letter): a. She understands that the industry requires clarity over the future if their licences, but she cannot give any. b. She strongly advises stakeholders (p.c. office-speak for pilots and engineers) to make their own contingency arrangements. c. She hopes to be able to give more information to stakeholders (pilots and engineers) in a few months time. d. UK CAA licences are ICAO compliant and will remain valid internationally - on UK aicraft (only). And if Britain crashes out of the EU and EASA... e. UK licence holders will be able to apply to EASA states for a validation of their UK licence (to fly EASA aircraft - like all those Austrian registered Easy A320s). However, it will be up to that state to decide if it wants to issue a validation or not. ie - no guarantees, guys. f. Aircrew can only hold one EASA licence (as we know). However, post Brexit you will be able to hold an EASA and a UK licence. But you cannot hold two licence before March 29th. (Which does not answer the question of whether you can keep a frozen UK ATPL, and then unfreeze it after March 29th.). g. If you hold an EASA licence you will be able to apply for a 12 month UK validation. But each application will be dealt with individually. ie - no guarantees, guys. In other words, some two years after the Brexit vote, the CAA has still not made any contingency plans. They could, for instance, have guaranteed UK validations of EASA licences for previous UK licence holders. They could have ensured that your UK licence will be held frozen, so it can be resurrected if necessary later. They could have gone to EASA and hammered out an agreement to stay within the broarder confines of the EASA community. But no, they appear to have done nothing. As an aside, Dame Hutton’s previous experience was as an apartheid demonstrator, the Arts Council, a housing association, Future Farming, Food Safety, another Arts Council, the Dental Association, Consumer Council, Sustainable Development Commission, Environmental Protection and Thames Water. She was crowned the Quango Queen by the press. And with such a broad experience in technology and transport, you can see why the Labour party would see Dame Deirdre as the perfect candidate to control Britain’s aviation industry..... ST |
I was about to convert my license and get a UK license. Reading this, I am so glad I kept my Polish license. This is such a big mess.
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Will UK pilots be allowed to live and work in the EU after BREXIT?
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Originally Posted by bulldog89
(Post 10236951)
Will UK pilots be allowed to live and work in the EU after BREXIT?
Unless a deal is done then no UK pilots will not be allowed to live and work in the EU unless they qualify like any other third-country national. (I.e. a Canadian or Mexican or where-ever.) Some suggestions have been made that where UK citizens are already resident in a country, that country MAY allow them to remain under a fast-track residence but it is not guaranteed and the UK is refusing to issue guarantees to EU citizens and is not making it simple for EU citizens to regularise their position in the UK. What is certain is that UK pilots will lose the right to live and work throughout the EU27 and move freely between them. The UK has absolutely committed to ending the "free" movement of workers, despite never applying the EU controls such as three month stays without employment. Worst case scenario will be the UK being in the EASA environment like Switzerland. i would not worry too much |
Worst case scenario will be the UK being in the EASA environment like Switzerland. |
Originally Posted by bulldog89
(Post 10236951)
Will UK pilots be allowed to live and work in the EU after BREXIT?
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Originally Posted by Raski
(Post 10236916)
if you don’t fly for an UK operator why should you do that. In my personal opinion, regardless brexit outcomes, not much will change. Worst case scenario will be the UK being in the EASA environment like Switzerland. i would not worry too much. |
Originally Posted by DrJones
(Post 10237124)
Can EASA registered aircraft be based in UK post BREXIT on the basis that the UK is no longer part of EASA?
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