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-   -   Air Berlin filing for bankruptcy? (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/598357-air-berlin-filing-bankruptcy.html)

ExXB 31st Oct 2017 09:30

Will easy be able to spook up their Tegal operations quickly enough? The use it or lose it rule applies to all slots in the EU (and elsewhere) including the Air Berlin operated slots.

The northern Winter season began 29 Oct and ends 24 March, 146 days. A daily slot has to be 80% used or 117 out of the 146 or whomever risks losing them.

Controllers have a limited ability to look the other way, but the regulation is clear.

Of course the same applies to Monarchís slots.

Denti 31st Oct 2017 10:52

Apparently Lufty got a special dispensation for the slot rule, as it applies to them even more so. And they do not have the personnel to fly it. I would think that Easy is applying for that as well. Apparently regulatory authorities do not count the 80% rule until the final OK is given by the EU commission on the whole deal.

ExXB 31st Oct 2017 11:10

Lufty can merge the Air Berlin slots with their own. By playing with them they can mitigate the issue. ie if they have an AB slot at 0900 and a LH slot at 0905 they can operate Monday using the AB slot, Tuesday using the LH slot: delaying the expiry. Slots are not tied to a particular route.

The EC wants to reduce the percentage to 70%, as does the Parliament. I’m not so certain they will simply give a blanket waiver. Lots of other airlines would want those slots.

Hussar 54 31st Oct 2017 11:26


Apparently regulatory authorities do not count the 80% rule until the final OK is given by the EU commission on the whole deal.

The EC wants to reduce the percentage to 70%, as does the Parliament. Iím not so certain they will simply give a blanket waiver. Lots of other airlines would want those slots.


But let's not forget that this is LH we're discussing here....

BRE 1st Nov 2017 06:54

Using 747 for FRA- TXL runs
 
Nach Air-Berlin-Aus: Lufthansa fliegt mit Jumbojets zwischen Berlin und Frankfurt

Apparently, demand is high and they don't have the ex-AB planes yet, so are replacing most runs in November with long haul planes that happen to be returning from intercontinental flights.

KelvinD 1st Nov 2017 08:49

As with many things Lufthansa, it is all a bit confusing. An A320, D-ABHK, formerly belonging to Niki Air and transferred to Air Berlin earlier this year, flew into LHR on 25th October as a Eurowings flight (EW9466). And it was still dressed in Niki livery.

inbalance 1st Nov 2017 13:42

@KelvinD, yes you are right. Its not a secret that planes start to fly better as soon as you write the word Lufthansa on their belly.

george234 2nd Nov 2017 18:33

new information from the administrator of the bancrupt air berlin:

it looks like the creditors will get nothing payed out from the air berlin bancrupts assets, because it is nothing left by now
even the loan of the german state can obvisualy not be payed back

source in german:
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/articl...uszugehen.html

Denti 3rd Nov 2017 21:15

German news sources report tonight that Easyjet signed a CLA with verdi about the integration of air berlin staff. Besides a somewhat simplified application procedure there will be „hold“ pay of up to €40.000 as they will need until september next year to train all of them. Training capacity seems to be rather stretched with close to 800 pilots and around 1700 cabin crew to be recruited in 2018.

diamantaire 18th Nov 2017 21:38

the way the whole thing was handled stinks.
the biggest winner LH , the biggest loser the german people & the investors of AB

gearlever 18th Nov 2017 21:43

What?
The German people? How that?
The investors?

Why to invest in something that doesn't sound right? AB was mismanaged from the beginning. My sympathies to these "investors" are just zero.

gnarlberg 19th Nov 2017 12:02

German people pay a second time for their ticket DUS MIA or TXL JFK. obviously it will be the same aircraft, the same personnel, and the same route, they just bought the ticket a second time.

Investors?
There have been big companies interested in airberlin paying money, investors would at least get a bit or a small percentage. Somebody, he wears glasses, took away interesting routes and aircrafts from airberlin so other companys wouldn't pay as much as with etops 330 etc... the guy with glasses now bought big parts of airberlin for much less money

oliver2002 19th Nov 2017 20:01

So what in your opinion should have been done instead?

Kerosene Kraut 19th Nov 2017 20:15

Pilot's Union Vereinigung Cockpit vetoed some accelerated direct move for AB-Pilots to Eurowings Germany recently. So these pilots have to formally reapply from scratch for less paid work at Eurowings Europe (Austria) now. Thanks.

Fokkerdriver 19th Nov 2017 20:45

I hope a lot of the crew will get the opportunity to join us in easyJet and at least work for decent money. As far as I am aware they will also join - not only getting a bridge pay of up to 40.000 euro - but also on a certain 'salery step' getting our loyalty bonus according to years served in Air Berlin.
I looked into joining EW when easyJet proposed to close The Hamburg base and was thoroughly shocked at the terms and conditions

Denti 20th Nov 2017 09:34


Originally Posted by Kerosene Kraut (Post 9962567)
Pilot's Union Vereinigung Cockpit vetoed some accelerated direct move for AB-Pilots to Eurowings Germany recently. So these pilots have to formally reapply from scratch for less paid work at Eurowings Europe (Austria) now. Thanks.

There is quite a bit more to that, and the Veto was actually done on request of the majority of AB pilots. Even for EWG there was no direct entry way, the application process was identical to the one used for EWEU. Not a full DLR Test for AB pilots, just an interview with someone from the company and two psychologists from the DLR.


Originally Posted by Fokkerdriver
I hope a lot of the crew will get the opportunity to join us in easyJet and at least work for decent money. As far as I am aware they will also join - not only getting a bridge pay of up to 40.000 euro - but also on a certain 'salery step' getting our loyalty bonus according to years served in Air Berlin.
I looked into joining EW when easyJet proposed to close The Hamburg base and was thoroughly shocked at the terms and conditions

Indeed, that seems to be true. The system isn't perfect and has some unusual quirks, but it is nice that Easyjet actually acknowledges the experience of those entering from AB. Quite a few are applying and most are really looking forward to join EZY.

Less Hair 20th Nov 2017 13:10

Why should AB pilots prefer to work for EW Europe instead of EW Germany?

gnarlberg 20th Nov 2017 14:17

because ab pilots could build up their own seniority list on EW Europe base germany... and then they wouldn't loose anything...
at EWE at german bases there is actually no Union/ VC supporting, but entering EWE, pilots could build up everything with vc/union and decide themselves. would be more interesting than going to EWG for same money and be the last one on the seniority list

at the moment :

EWD (not possible)
VC Union, MTV VTV and Seniority list existing
(AB Pilots entering would with TV Wachstum enter the seniority list at the end, the salary list according to 700hours/step but max step 11 -> upgrades from ab would be given to EWD colleagues and AB colleagues would remain as FO their whole life, and EWD FOīs would get a super boost fasttrack upgrade because AB Pilots enter the sen list at the end = unfair)

EWE
contracts according to EWD MTV/VTV
(AB pilots entering would work via german law, this means that they can form a union or get VC in there. Then with just AB pilots on german Bases they could take their old seniority list, no upgrades would be lost and they would have the same as at EWD)

Less Hair 21st Nov 2017 08:02

So VC wants to infiltrate EWE at the cost of the pilots as this will be their future union battleground versus Lufthansa?
EWE in the future might have many non german pilots so VC should have an interest to force feed germans into that pipeline to keep their punch there. AB-Seniority could be accepted at EWG as well if VC wanted. They just use this to lure people into EWE. Not sure how much support VC can expect from those diverted crews.

EcamSurprise 21st Nov 2017 11:41

It's unfair that EW own FOs will get command before people joining from another airline?
This isn't a normal take over but rather a bankrupt airline having some of its assets and people saved.

If you have an issue with time to command, you can join easyJet where you will just have to wait your 6 months / 2 sim requirement and you can have your name on the list for assessment like everyone else. No seniority other than time on the waiting list.


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