This winter may be different. It appears that Orient Ship Management, OSM, has been requested not to provide, or is unable to provide, sufficient pilots to cause any layoff.

As reported today, May 4, in Norway’s leading (by circulation) newspapers; DN, E24, Aftenposten and Dagbladet:

“Pilot Association:- Norwegian is understaffed pilots”. In response, Norwegian admits their management incompetence;

“It is correct not good enough internal planning meant that we did not have enough pilots for a period”.

http://www.dn.no/nyheter/naringsliv/...nnet-p-piloter

“…..pilots and cabin crew are being encouraged to work extra”

http://e24.no/jobb/norwegian-air-shu...loter/23674557

“In one message from early April, it says there is general lack of cabin crew and pilots on all Norwegian bases”

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ir...e-8455849.html

“Norwegian’s reputation amongst pilots in freefall”

http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/05/04/n...gian/44082579/

Even requesting the crews cooperation to work during days off due to lack of them they kept on people on 50% unpaid leave . Some flights were cancelled and many guys were at home unpaid leave oblied , make nonsense.

Some still owe them type rating, some at home , everybody have a different reason ,others leaving or considering to leave.

"As reflected in our company slogan «It’s all about people», the core of OSM Aviation is our employees."
It's all about people????.It's all about exploiting people, you mean...

tripulante can you explain why? We hardly get in here more infos about NAS other than it's a bad airline. But could you guys tell more about the company? As the author started with, what's the roster like? Can anybody tell about base, training, pay, benefits, good points/bad points?
With more infos it could really help to make our own opinion. Thank you

“It's all about people???? It's all about exploiting people, you mean...”

It should be no surprise Kjos was named Leader of the Year by Manpower Group, which specializes in “large scale outsourced recruitment initiatives”. In an interview with Nettavisen, Managing Director of Manpower, Maalfrid Brath, said of Kjos:-

“He has built a business idea into HR area, while he has actively exploited the opportunities that the competitive situation has given in relation to HR”

http://www.nettavisen.no/na24/2754932.html

After crew members were sent “threatening text messages” from Norwegian’s henchmen, Norway labor union PARAT may propose an alternative accolade:-

http://www.thelocal.no/20140507/norw...ith-sms-threat

To my knowledge, Kjos has never won any award for promoting the Scandinavian reputation and ideology for quality of working life, although a number of prominent people and organizations have suggested Kjos qualifies for a global racing award….

Sorry Bondi but that's not helping.. Important to know but not helping.. Anybody else please?

I think if you have a read on pprune you will come across a lot of not so positive details about life in Norwegian or shall I say OSM.

But if you choose not to listen or believe what has been posted I will make a short summery.

-if you don't hold enough seniority, you will be made redundant during the winter mounts, yes captains also. Every year they say it won't happen again. But it does.

-they will promise you a permanent contract and then they will find a way out of giving one to you. Ask Lgw pilots if you don't believe me.

-they will promise local terms and conditions and again find a way out of doing that.

-they say that they follow the master seniority list and again only when it convenient for mgmt.

-constant roster changes, no roster stability.

-constant overnights in crap hotels, yes you will need to make your own way to the hotel with public transport.

-crap crew meals.

-constant positioning, yes deadheading crew will now have to board as last.

-night flights, checkin at midnight checkout in the morning. With rostering hounding you to operate later that day after minimum rest.

-Inhumane duty days (but legal). As an example Lpa Tos 7 hours block time and passive back.
Fdp 8:30 hours and 16 hour duty day.

-30 days of annual leave, reduced to 18 actual leave days. Legal, who knows, but they do it anyway.

-oh and have I mentioned the morale is low. How low you ask well everyone who can get out is getting out.

-And don't think that you will be getting any staff travel on the other fleet. Apparently we our all one family. But forget about it.

The general feeling in the company is of mismanagement and resignation. I.e no one cares. If there is a problem the answer is always to Wet-lease.

Spot on lear999wa

I heard an interesting rumour yesterday regarding outsourcing of Core production , whilst still using the same airframes/cabin crew but A..N Other AOC/Flight Deck crew . . . . just a "Rumour" for the moment, but, if it comes to pass it will be another low for this stinking regime. :yuk:



Oh, and Lear has described it exactly as it "really is" , not the sugar coated BS you will be fed at interview. . . . .

How can you call an interview sugar coated when you have to pay ticket, hotacc etc outta yer own lil pouch?

Interview isn't , but the "propaganda" promulgated at said occasion is . . . . . .

Thanks lear999wa for that insight. I actually always thought Norwegian is not that bad, but based on what you wrote I am more then happy that I have chosen RYR instead. Well, mainly because I am tired of any night stops and finally starting AND finishing duty days at my homebase. That was making the deal for me honestly. Plus the money is not that bad as some guys always write. For a tired, medium aged airliner, sick of hotels and long haul the perfect escape I must confess. Was starting my airline career like that, start at homebase, finish at homebase, did that for 6 years in my young years. Then started with all that "beautiful" big airline and Longhaul BS, bored during flying and then hanging around in some nice, but far away from home hotel. And that all over and over and over again. Happy to sleep in my bed again, every night. Plus kids(don't know about the wife :-) ) are happy to see their dad again every day.

But paying your own transport going to a crew hotel is just ridiculous. Would do that only if I would get paid 15.000 Euro/Pound/USD, then I would not matter. I was wondering already when Norwegian was looking for 787 drivers and looking into the Capt salary. Did not impress me, honestly.

For the sake of being fare and balanced. The public transport to and from the hotel is payed for by the company.

Public transport to/from hotels....? Wow.

That's a new low, for sure...

To perhaps confirm what I posted in post #51, I received this info today




The union in Norwegian has Cancelled Subpart E in the collective agremment, Which is selling off day. So from 30 june nobody will be able to sell a day off



One would have thought that lessons had been learned in Feb 2015 after the lengthy strike, but alas, that was merely a fierce battle in what NAS seem determined to continue as a "war till the death" . I guess flagging out Norwegian production will help with their Transatlantic applications. . . . Er, no.

The union in Norwegian has Cancelled Subpart E in the collective agremment, Which is selling off day. So from 30 june nobody will be able to sell a day off

28 years ago I worked for fledgling airline. The naive young pilots wanted to 'help the company'. So they worked on days off for nothing other than a faint promise of a simple day off in return; not even an extra day of your own choosing. The managers raped the company. Later it was discovered that the crewing levels were designed to be low, so not enough SBYs', on the assumption that crews would work on days off. Our salaries and T&C's were the lowest in the country. The company went bust 3 times before it was taken over and absorbed into a larger unit. The greed of the managers was astonishing. Still the naivety of the crews continued.
Selling a day off is perpetuating a weak structure. First discover why it should be necessary.

Cheaper to buy days off than hire extra crew, but, in NAS , selling a day off is very lucrative, and those who opt for 80% can easily recuperate the rest by working a couple of OFFs, so, it hurts the pilots to do this. . . . The last time this happened was Spring 2012, and there were 8 (or more) aircraft on wet lease to cover the shortfall in manpower of crew not working OFF days.

This time it is different, as the company is entering the final phase of their oft stated intention to destroy "Core Norwegian". Already there are many wet leases to cover the shortfall caused by NAS's refusal to expand Core to cover the Summer production.

The guys have 2 choices, accept the new arrangement & be screwed over the next 18-24mths, or go out in a blaze of glory & force NAS to do what they are serrupticiously doing anyhow, the destruction of the "Real Norwegian". . . . Personally I would go for the "Big Bang" & inflict as much stress/disruption/financial loss on the greedy little bar stewards as possible. . . if they are not ostracised by bought -in labour now, they will be in any case within a very short time span. Anyone harbouring any doubts over this showers suitability as an employer, should watch closely developments over the next few months & the answer will be very clearly seen. Sad end to a great company headed by someone who went from being very nearly a visionary, to a sad imitation of O' Leary, just as O' leary was stepping out of the limelight, the Norwegian public don't like this kind of crap & I hope they vote (in droves) with their feet, but they (probably ) won't.

Sounds just like another few we all know. It seems that only the paint scheme changes. Don't get me started on the odd authorities interpretation or oversight of the regs either!

Working for free on an off day was normal way back 80's and 90's. Was the same at my first company. We got called, did them a favour, got maybe(not always) an other off day. That's it.

Again - times changed. Unfortunately not for the better(writes someone who flew for free in his young years on a off day, I know - but at least that means something ^^).

In the good old days of the charter airlines I would help them out by working a day off because almost all standbys ending up as days of and I was respected by the management who regarded be as a professional business traveler and used appropriate hotels.

In the lo-co life has changed, almost all STBY days end up as work and the rest you get after long working days and being sent to cheap scabby hotels is limited.

The result of this is not working days off is not any sort of revenge or political action aganst the management, it is simply a fatigue management tactic so that I am safe to fly on normal working days.

In the lo-co life has changed, almost all STBY days end up as work

The business model caused crewing levels to be at minimum and rosters all to max/min FTL's. Thus any disruption today caused a change in tomorrow. SBY's were not called out at departure time, but used in advance due to crews being out of rest hours for their next duty. SBY's were firefighters due to bad rostering practices and NOT for last minute disruption scenarios, which was their basic concept.

As I mentioned in post #51, here we have the "new Norwegian", replacing Scandinavian high-cost labour :hmm: with cheaper :D low-cost ACMI by go2sky. . . . . inspiring Huh ?


Sign at your peril



https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0a&oe=57D6AE71

Interesting thread! Norwegian used to be a "threat" to SAS so I followed the news carefully about this.

Turns out, Norwegian mgmt was fed up with unions and regulations messing with shareholders money and moved the joint to Ireland a few years ago to take advantage of their most liberal taxation rules. Some crew were replaced with non-EU citizens, some had a salary cut. Others were laid off. Since then they have been running a somewhat acceptable circus. Do not expect anything like Norwegian labour laws at NAS! They are entirely non-Norwegian in their nature. Hiring and firing - doesn't matter, they do it with poise and arrogance. Mr Kjos is smiling at the cameras and then hiring Indonesians to do the dirty work.

When Norwegian first started, every other person was sooo excited here in Scandinavia, now we could travel for no money and still all the service! Still, I strongly advised my friends to choose anything else than NAS since it was too cheap to be true. (Of course I more or less forbid them to RYR anything!) Anyway, when it was still in Norway, I could give them the benefit of a doubt, but going rogue into Ireland....? Nah, not cool!

The glory of the moment has faded for Norwegian now. It has NOT helped, all those stranded pax all over the world. Their 787 fleet has had many mishaps, with airplanes having to be flown in to ferry pax to their destination because their designated 787 had "technical issues". It seems to have calmed down some lately though.

737 fleet also some hiccups, I'm sensing they could be maintenance related (because of their nature: lots of loose stuff, lost gaskets, misplaced pins, etc) but I don't have the inside gossip to verify this. Last I heard, some weeks ago, they had an incident with a tank overflowing and jet fuel dripping from the wing. Pax had to wait a few hours, lots of angry faces in the news, especially since this was not the first time this happened to this very flight.

Oh well, just the inputs from an interested bystander. If you don't really HAVE to, don't choose Norwegian. They are not AT ALL what they used to be before the move.

SAS is doing great btw. Last hiring period they had about five applicants per seat. Good times.

The bulk of the RYR guys that joined tried to go back to RYR, and for good reason. NAS continues to plumb new lows in the industry. Any decent regulator would shut it down, but they use the rubberstamping IAA to get away with anything they like. ICAO should be blacklisting Norwegian and the IAA alike.

Tripulante521
 

That is the sort of statement that could get you into very hot water if you can't back it up.

Why am I so surprised . . . . . not, :hmm:

Norwegian seem to be offering 2year bonds on the 738 and believe I fall into this category. I don't have a type rating, but have always wanted to fly the 737 (as Im in corporate aviation) and later move on to bigger airlines, possibly the likes of EK or EY in a few years. If I had to take a bond, what is the likelihood of redundancy or reduced pay over winter months? Surely it wouldn't make sense to get rid of pilots that owed them money/time?

@johnnybgoode

Well, at the end it is a choice to make(we all had to do that in our aviation lifes). It might be wrong, maybe right. Norwegian or RYR. Or someone else.

If you fly corporate(did that as well for a while, brrrrrrr, lot's of interesting memories) and you seriously want to "improve"(I was down there with ME dreamairlines) your life, why don't you go directly to EK. Their requirements are so low at the moment(as far as I know, piss in a straight line and breathe ^^) that even with just corporate time you should make it in. I think they even lowered it that much to fit EXACTLY the profile a lot of the corporate guys have. Give it a shot, spare you the time with the low cost if it is anyway not the thing you are looking for.

Especially, I don't think so many airline guys are really so keen to go down there(talking about Europeans), why would you change a not so great paid job, most likely in your home country, with social security and retirement(even if it is just state) to change for another not really so great paid job(if you think, they do NOT pay their share of social insurance and retirement to the state, so at the end EK is very cheap on that compared to any european airline. If you add up their contributions you easy reach an EK salary), flying far to much, sitting in a place where for at least 9 months/year it is far to hot and very expensive to live.
Not talking about the management mumbo jumbo, for that have a look in the ME forum in the EK threads. QR or the other one, unspeakable one ^^, is even worse.

Have any Ryanair pilots made the successful move back after their brief stint at Norwegian ?? Or are management of the opinion you made your choice now live with it?

If you are a " core pilot" sitting on sub 800 hrs a year, fully protected, unionised and wrapped in cotton wool your view may be somewhat different to the " contractors" flogged for 950 plus hours with worthless contracts and no bargaining power. How many " core pilots" have been called to cover shortages at LGW compared with Spanish crews? Expense reports and fatigue reports go hand in hand at NAS, Many of these " contractors" were lured away with false promises and high hopes and now sit in the aviation wilderness.. at least with Ryanair you know the score from day one..the choice of frying pan ( RYR) or fire. ( NAS) ...pan tends to get evenly burnt, fire you are cremated.

A couple of Winters back the guys who had joined without TR were given the choice , take 4 mths OFF unpaid & come back, or leave, but you have to pay back the TR. The Union eventually got it diluted to less unpaid time off, and some people were given 50% with the salary deductions for TR suspended.

Some bods did indeed get back into RYR, depends on the circumstances in which you left, never burn bridges being the lesson. In most cases they had left to avoid taking low paid Command upgrade / base change & came to NAS with promise of rapid command which didn't materialise, so , felt it was better to retry "the devil you know" finally.

OMG: it's a sad sad world.

"The busiest time of year is right around the corner with millions of Norwegian customers about to go on vacation. Unfortunately, our summer operation is facing challenges due to erroneous planning causing considerable lack of pilots."

Bring back Sterling Mk.1.

If it was only "erroneous planning " . . . . . . . . . no doubt this phrase will be wheeled out again in the Autumn when they decide a certain percentage of the pilots will be only too happy to take unpaid /unrequested vacation to cater for their oft demonstrated totally inadequate organisational skills. (or is it, rather, actually merely a cynical attempt to cover seasonal variation in the simplest way possible ? )


A much bigger elephant in the room , and a greater part of the recruitment problem, is the change of company culture/mindset towards their employees.

That is a harder one to fix than merely screwing up recruitment numbers.

Not to worry, outsourcing production to go2fly employees will solve everything in short order :mad:


"Bring back Sterling Mk.1." Hmnn . . . if you knew some of the internal machinations / criteria for obtaining "appointments" , & those involved, you would quickly realise that the company could be better named "Danish" in preference to "Norwegian", & a base rechristened as a "Lodge".

A little human interest story, maybe reflecting upon what tripulante521 said:

Norwegian förstörde Erica och Almas Londonresa | Nyheter | Aftonbladet

My translation:

Norwegian first announced the flight would be late and would take off, first at 16:45, then at 16:50.
- A few minutes after 16, I get a text that the flight is cancelled. Many people were upset, says Erica Nilsson.
[...]
Norwegian claims that the cancelled flight was due to accumulated delays during the day, which eventually meant that the crew of flight D82853 would have to break working time regulations.

----

To set things straight: All passengers was offered the chance to re-book their tickets on any other Norwegian flight, or even get a refund. What I find interesting is that this took place in the first place, considering what you guys have said previously in this thread.

I would also like to point out that this is the image Norwegian have in Swedish media nowadays. Everything was very positive in the beginning, reports about our Norwegian neighbour accomplishing such a feat (as in: getting into the flying business, buying brand new high tech airplanes like the 787) were plenty.

Latest from Norwegian:

Piloter og kabinansatte vant over Norwegian - Norwegian Air Shuttle - Børs og Finans - E24

The union brought NAS to court for violating Norwegian employment rules. The court ruled in favour of the union.

My translation:

The pilots were transferred to the daughter company Norwegian Air Norway in 2013 and later to the "pilot service provider"* Pilot Services Norway during the strike in spring 2015.
The cabin crew were transferred to the company Cabin Services Norway in 2014.
The case is divided in three parts. First, the union considers Norwegian Air Shuttle to be the lawful employer for the pilots and cabin crew, second that Norwegian Air Norway has unlawfully acquired employees and third that the transfer to Pilot Services is illegal** because it took place during a strike.

The court decided in favour for the union in first and second complaint, but not the last.

*The original word is "bemanningsselskapet" which I don't know how to translate to English. A "bemanningsselskap" is an agency for professionals with certain knowledges who then hires those professionals to people who need them. A "bemanningsselskap" can f.ex. employ nurses that other companies then hire for a fixed period of time during peak seasons.

**I think the word "ogyldig" actually would be "not valid" or "not applicable" but I chose "illegal" because of the context. Translation is haaard!

So no more selling of off days now. Norwegian cancelled 18 flights only in Norway due to lack of crew. Also almost 10 planes wet leased operating for them right now.

Must be cheaper to just hire some more pilots soon?
Will we see an improvement in conditions?

Today a 777 (CS-TFM) operated Stockholm Dubrovnik and Palermo.

(In Norwegian)
https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/parat-be...ian-1.13025136