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JamandJar 19th May 2015 17:52

Actual BA Pay
 
Hi - I've had a good look around the forum regarding information on BAs basic pay, allowances, sector pay, pensions etc. Some of it appears out of date now that PayPoint34 is out there.

I just wondered if someone at the company can breakdown/explain what a FO SH LHR chap/chapess might expect to earn above and beyond that listed on pjn.

Thank you

Stocious 19th May 2015 20:34

Have a look at the monster thread called "BA Direct Entry Pilot."

It's all in there.

Briefly, starts about 50kish, plus about 6k flying pay, and 3.30ish hourly duty pay. Pension is BARP, you pay choice of 1%-6%, company doubles your contribution, so their max of 12%.

Private jet 19th May 2015 22:12

Blimey.
They were paying new pilots 23k basic (+ allowances/flight pay etc) in 1989 for about half the hours flown now....
Even engineering apprentices were making 300 a week gross.
Put all that into an inflation calculator.
Both with NAPS.
How times have changed.

The Range 20th May 2015 01:06

So, how many hours do they fly now?

Buter 20th May 2015 04:05

All of them.

BASHLH 20th May 2015 07:45

BA PP1 PP34 DEP 320
 
For those wanting a clear answer!

1st Jan 2013 is when our latest Pay Scales were updated. PP34 Year 1 was 51819 basic. We have had a 2.3% & 1.6% pay rise respectively since then so I make year 1 basic at....

53859

With a standard 6% BARP pension contribution (269 per month) Net is 3021 per month.

FPA has been raised on SH and is now 715.46 before full tax so 429 net.

TAFB (time away from base/swipe in to swip out is now 3.99) taxed slightly differently... Slightly beyond me. I do a mix of 2/3 day trips with the odd day trip & before tax get between 7/800 a month easily. This equates to ish 600 net. Obviously if your doing more tours than day trips expect to make 1000, or if your a day tripper 4/500....

So all together that's is 4050 in a standard full time month PP1 320 FO.

I'm PP5 & comfortably clear 4600 net.

As we are short there is plenty of overtime. I believe the hourly rate PP1 is circa 47... This is fully taxed. If picked up at 1.25 rate... Therefore a 2 day 10 hr credit trip is 350 net plus the 120 TAFB so circa 470 net. Personally I think it should be more but hey ho.

I have friends that clear easily 5000 a month net with overtime.

I hope this helps! All said with usual Health warnings but 4000 will put you in the ball park.

wiggy 20th May 2015 07:53

Buter

:}

The Range


So, how many hours do they fly now?
Since you ask and to provide a limited comparision with the "in the day" Private Jet alludes to this is a snapshot of how my BA Long Haul widebody :\ annual flying hours figures have progressed over the years:
I've ignored 90 and 91 since the hours were impacted by courses (initial on the 747 and conversion to the 744)..thereafter:


1992: 509 hours
1993: 531 hours
(Two ringer, Blindlines,(in the days of "long Harare's" etc))


Fast forward with a steady ramping up of the annual totals to :

'13: 832 hours (cue cries of "slacker")
'14 : 861 hours...
(Four ringer, Triplines, )


I suspect my short haul colleagues and many junior Long haul Blindline holders will be much much closer to the magic "all of them...." than I am.

Tay Cough 20th May 2015 08:01

Shorthaul is in the low 700s generally, without overtime.

However, you will spend an awful lot of time on duty to achieve that. For example, earlyish pick-up in ATH (9am ish), three and a half hour flight back to LHR, sit around for nearly three hours, MAN and back. Very close to max FDP. Very frustrating. :ugh:

JamandJar 20th May 2015 10:23

Thanks thats all really useful - very much appreciated.

Regarding report and finish times for LHR SH,

Whats the earliest you have to report for work? (looking at possible commuting options)
Whats the latest?
What does a normal working day look like for a blind liner...?

Down in front 20th May 2015 20:06

Impressive income / lifestyle

Are we comparing apples with oranges here though - are you a recently joined FO, are your company recruiting and do they also provide a free rating?

Busbo 20th May 2015 21:34

Has to be Jet2. Sadly not FO pay but it is available for year 1 new joiners. No PPwhatever here.

No recruitment right now but generally an annual occurrence.

RHS 20th May 2015 21:44

Do tell, who is flying 300-400 hours a year, UK based and home every night, earning 100k a year?

It sounds like Nirvana

Cliff Secord 20th May 2015 22:18

Has to be a Jet2 757 skipper

Busbo 20th May 2015 22:27

75 skipper or a 73 skipper at a Royal Mail base.

Yeah, it is pretty good but have a read through the Jet2 thread and hear them moan. It's an overused phrase but there truly is no pleasing some people.

I guess this is what thread drift is....

MonarchOrBust 20th May 2015 23:26

Take any UK charter outfit and you'll find the hours, salary and quality of home life are generally the same as what's been mentioned above. Maybe a 100 more hours.


BA short-haul sounds like hard work and I'm led to believe BA pilots swap planes mid-duty - yuck. I always thought that was the hallmark of inefficient Asian airlines? Hats off to you guys (Not that I own/want one ;)).


I have to say, as the days roll by, I am becoming less and less inclined to apply.

4468 21st May 2015 01:29


I have to say, as the days roll by, I am becoming less and less inclined to apply
Then I wonder why you are inclined at all. Sounds like you'd just be wasting everyone's time including your own?

Fly a 737/757 for Jet 2 if you'd rather? It's a 'stepping-stone airline'. Everyone knows it's not a career. Join Easy if you prefer SH. At least you know you'll be doing exactly the same thing, on exactly the same aircraft, every single day of your working life until you retire. Or a charter airline if you prefer that kind of work? Or Virgin if you know SH would NEVER be for you (and you don't much like unions)

If those choices appear to have 'drawbacks', then consider BA. You may well join on the A320, who are the whipping boys of the airline. (Thanks to the influence of some of the employers named above!) After a maximum of 5 years you'll have a valid bid off onto B744, B777, B787, A380, A350. The choice is largely yours. You will travel the globe, staying in most of it's great cities. BA offer you choices that allow you to live anywhere in the World. There are pilots living in Aus and NZ. North America and Canada. Throughout Europe and probably many other continents too. Staff travel will allow you and yours the possibility of holidaying in First Class seats, if you're smart with your choices.

If you're basing your choice of employer on starting rates of pay, you may not be seeing the bigger picture?? Suit yourself. (Incidentally, top rate of basic in BA is in excess of 150k. A number are earning 200k.)

If you simply don't want to wear a hat, look at other employers! Like Monarch by the sounds?

Cliff Secord 21st May 2015 02:12

What an arrogant bloody post.

Why wouldn't Jet2 be a career airline for someone? They maybe to some. The only thing I can think of is security and declining terms, but are you immune? Bidline/PP34??? Will it stop? No it won't. You know if they were perceived to be as secure as BA are perceived to be secure, I'd certainly look at less money for half the hours and a command in 5 years for 400 hours with 100k plus.

Money/variety??? Ha! You can keep your money. In fact if I were younger the only reason I'd apply to BA is the security. The lifestyle sounds crap. Also what sounds crap is the grating self entitlement that permeates from anyone posting on here from BA crushing anyone that dares to post that BA isn't a golden goose - bar a few grounded souls. I couldnt listen to that day in day out. Do you honestly believe your own crap smells better? I'll give you a clue, no one on the ramp these days looks at you swanning around and says "what guys, heroes". It's generally bemused smiling at the arrogance and a feeling that we wouldn't fancy it due the :mad: hours. And further still, laughter that some of you still swan around as if money and a hat were like some sort of answer to anything in life. Yes at the moment those of you up the tree may have it good on bids but I bet it won't be like that if someone's joins in ten years.

I fly long haul for a supposed top carrier that has plenty of variety. At my years you can keep variety. I'm not too arrogant to hold my hands up and say I'd jack in flying a fat arsed wide body 4 engines jet for a regional if I find someone willing to give me a go and I got to garden more, ride me bike and spend time with my misses. I think the UK flying industry is on a never seen before cusp where many pilots are finding at the other side of the rainbow there is no all round pot of gold and the best balance (as low as it may be and declining) was the job they jacked in flying for the likes of commoners like Jet2/Flybe. It's all on the slide.

Cattivo 21st May 2015 06:59

Why is it that every time someone starts a BA thread asking a genuine question, some will endeavour to hijack the thread with how much better their airline/job is? If I was interested in those airlines I'd go look on those threads. Touch of insecurity perhaps?

Very few jobs are perfect. I see some excellent facets of other UK airline jobs that I'd love to enjoy but there are always downsides in those jobs too.

There's a lot of people on this forum that write off/criticise the BA job having never experienced it!! BA can be frustrating and difficult in the first few years but long term I do think there's no better place in the UK.

MonarchOrBust 21st May 2015 07:21

4468,


No I'm not with Monarch but another UK charter, so forgive the handle. I'm inn my first year. Over the summer, my take home will be around the 4k mark. I'll be flying around 70-80 hours then come winter that will be down to 20. I'm based out of a small base which despite living 30 miles from takes me 35 minutes to get to door to door (house door to crewing room door). That's a massive plus for my personal situation.


I honestly consider myself to have one of the best jobs in the country in terms of graft vs reward. Trutfully, even in summer, we hardly work. Just by flying to Turkey twice a week we reach company flight time limits. The quality of life I get by getting back home each evening (well at least 9/10 times) AND by not being worked into the ground by flying 4 sectors a day (we do a max of 2, occasionally 3) is amazing.


There is the prospect of mixed fleet or longhaul flying within 3-5 years too. Command time is comparable.


That's a lot of good stuff to give up for BA and many agree. I was all up for re-applying to BA just a few months ago (they've called me back earlier than expected) but I no longer feel it's for me due to the above reasons.

OBK! 21st May 2015 17:47

Lots of 'My job pays loads and i do :mad: all.' Or 'I chose not to join BA for this reason...'

I think those people are lost.

Year 1 about 4000/month net.

bluepilot 21st May 2015 19:48

Mr Gammon Flaps, a very honest and what I believe to be realistic view of working for a Flag Carrier airline. I was fortunate a few years ago to be be employed by another flag carrier, the pay was fantastic but the lifestyle sucked big time. I took a big risk and joined a UK based leisure airline, ok I was lucky to get a direct entry command so the financial hit was not quite as painful as it could have been, however my quality of life shot up. I am now home very night do not work anywhere near as hard as I used to.

Its horses for courses, if you are young enough to enjoy a full career with an EU flag carrier then the job security and income are probably second to none, for someone that is joining later in life it can really have its drawbacks, particularly when it comes to family life / being away from home.

Busbo 21st May 2015 20:08


Lots of 'My job pays loads and i do :mad: all.' Or 'I chose not to join BA for this reason...'

I think those people are lost.

Year 1 about 4000/month net.
Nope, not lost. Not sure why people are so touchy about it either.

The initial question was answered, quite comprehensively, in post #6.

The thread then moved on to what may (or may not) be something useful for someone who is clearly thinking about where their career is going.

Not sure where the problem is. Although excellent and unbeatable in many ways I'm sure, BA is probably the easiest airline to join for the wrong reasons (IMHO).

Emma Royds 22nd May 2015 06:36

The term career has little meaning in the industry nowadays. Yes BA will be still flying the flag in decades to come but at what cost to the employee? Unions are now simply organisations which only seem to have the ability to delay detrimental change rather then prevent it. Look no further than Iberia which stands out and also with the Lufthansa group as a whole.

The once bastions of sought after terms and conditions further afield have also morphed into offering packages that have been considerably diluted over time. Cathay, Gulf Air and Emirates are all excellent examples. What alarms me most, is if we have seen this change take place in the the last ten years or so, then what on earth will we face in the next ten or twenty years. Will we all be turning into flying mercenaries where by we have no loyalty to our employer as none is shown to the employee? The bottom line will result in us simply fulfilling our own personal financial and lifestyle goals, with us being ruthless in how we achieve it.

BA is a great company but like any other large airline in the world, it is no more immune than any other to the potentially brutal tactics that may (dare I say will?) be used by management to squeeze as much out of their money making machine.

Preon 22nd May 2015 14:18

Constant change
 
Yes 'Emma' I totally agree with your sentiments regarding constant change and consolidation and I have a sneaky feeling you could soon be adding Aer Lingus to your list?
I guess it's just a job so enjoy the present and 'smell the flowers along the way'.

overstress 22nd May 2015 15:43


Funny that you never get a wave back from a BA aircraft as it passes, and seldom a hello as they walk past. It's a shame.
Waved back at a United 737-7 only the other day, and said hello to some Lufthansa pilots in the immigration queue. I presume you weren't any of those then? :hmm:

KingDingaling 25th May 2015 08:39

Part-time options
 
Morning folks,

Just curious to know alongside the pay discussion whether or not BA have part-time options; if so what are they and how long in service until they may be taken up? Is there a waiting list? Also the opportunity to move to LGW from LHR - an easy move or again a long wait list?

Many thanks :ok:

toro 25th May 2015 21:28

I had to log on for the first time in years just to reply to this thread......;)

I have been in this industry for over 35 years and in BA for 20 so have a very well informed view of how things are..... Albeit it's my opinion.

Gammons post is pretty accurate although I would dispute the figure of 85% being "good guys" I think it's higher at 95% but having worked for 4 other operators around the world in my opinion there are far more "weirdos" in other company's... That's just in my experience.
There is no more whinging and whining than any other company however we are aware that it's never going to be as good as it has been so naturally there is an element of disastifaction.

When I was "outside" of BA my natural inclination was to perceive the BA pilots as prima donnas and which very much coloured my attitude towards them. The vast majority of BA pilots would wave, say hello and banter with ANY other pilots but I have to say the unspoken vitriol that I experience really is astounding..... I've asked recent new joiners and they agree with this sentiment.

It's absolutely true that the cabin crew/pilot relationship can be difficult but is getting better and in the last couple of years has improved markedly as the older crew have departed.... You have to realise that the vast majority of cabin crew are great but unlike charter or LOCO they tend to be older and quite frankly and understandably want to go down route have a quiet vino/meal and chill as they aren't in their 20's anymore and have partied gone crazy too many times ....

BA is still a great company to work for and even though I will retire in 5-6 years I am still proud to work for them...

This is all my own opinion but don't get dragged down by trolls and haters....

Right Engine 26th May 2015 08:44

In BA, every time you fly with someone who you like, make a note of their name (code). So when you have a choice of trips, you can check if they're on your list. The problem, particularly on Long Haul is that everyone chooses destination, hence the loneliness Gammon Flaps talked of. The bidding programs will even highlight trips that have one of your 'preferred colleagues' on.

The lack of familiarity is a real problem but over the years, can be tackled.

This of course can be applied in the reverse sense to avoid the 10% of self entitled knob jockeys.

Mooney12 26th May 2015 13:50

It should be noted that the flying pay is now included in the basic and appears on the left of the payslip.

So new joiner basic is 62445 for mortgage purposes etc...

Time Away From Base Allowance.. 3.39 an hour, is 80% tax free. I.e. If you get 1000 of TAFB in a month, 800 is tax free, 200 will be taxed at your marginal rate, 40%. So you'll lose 80 out of that 1000 in tax. This is extremely good and up's your net pay a great deal, especially on long haul.

We also get 5 tax free per night stop within the UK and 10 outside the UK.

We have a world class system called emaestro we can use for swapping, picking up overtime etc... We can do all this without contacting BA in any way. It's fantastic.

Your total package as a new joiner will end up over 70k, with some overtime, even more. It really isn't bad. Look at the world we are living in... Walking into 70k jobs doesn't happen easily. Also, with TAFB being 80% tax free... In net terms, the slary would work out more like 80k.

BA is still great to work for. Yes we work hard, but for 80k, in the real world, you'd be working much harder.

Furthermore... Incremental guaranteed pay rises are almost unheard of these days. If you go into training, your pay will increase by nearly 18%. Training standards, much more. So we do have pilots earning more than 200k. Fancy not paying any tax? Fine... Go on long haul and move out of the UK... hundreds of pilots in BA do this and pay little or nothing in tax. This makes them seriously wealthy. 20k per month net etc...

No other UK airline has opportunities like this...

wiggy 26th May 2015 14:11


We have a world class system called emaestro we can use for swapping, picking up overtime etc... We can do all this without contacting BA in any way. It's fantastic.
Tried doing a PBW involving a weekend recently?.....:E:E

Mikehotel152 26th May 2015 14:17


Go on long haul and move out of the UK... hundreds of pilots in BA do this and pay little or nothing in tax. This makes them seriously wealthy. 20k per month net etc
Many of us like the UK and feel a civic duty to pay fair levels of tax!

Mooney12 26th May 2015 14:18

Well, the more people apply, the more BA recruit... The sooner we get our establishment right... The sooner you can get those weekends off wiggy :8

Mooney12 26th May 2015 14:20

MikeHotel152... Myself included. I pay loads of tax. Don't think I'm defending tax dodgers.. I'm not. If you want to move away and not pay tax, you can... That's all I'm saying. I'm not debating the moral argument!!

Most of the guys who do this, do pay tax in their new countries. But it tends to be a lot less. Isle of Man, Jersey.. Italy, Spain etc.... Or Republic of Ireland.. Nothing! That's a joke.

wiggy 26th May 2015 14:38


Well, the more people apply, the more BA recruit... The sooner we get our establishment right
That's been a long story hasn't it? It would be nice to get it "sorted" at long last, though I rather suspect our idea of the correct manning levels and the company's are somewhat different... :oh:

Widebdy 27th May 2015 08:53

Do I see a pilot working for Ryanair lecturing BA pilots about tax ? :sad: strange given the % of money I lose to the tax man is now almost double what it was when I worked as an "agency pilot" at Ryanair. I was on a new contract , not one based in a country of my choice where paying even less tax is an option.

Back on topic; how often are the scales reviewed? Given the increased productivity and apparent difficulties in getting DEP at the moment is their scope for an improvement. That could potentially make the package interesting to some of the easyjet guys not interested.

GS-Alpha 27th May 2015 09:17

I can't see a change to the pay scales happening. BA may be prepared to throw some money at the situation, but I suspect they'd want it to be a temporary cost for what they perceive as a temporary problem. I think they'd far rather see that in the form of an increased overtime bill. They've already implemented a mechanism to force overtime upon a pilot at final roster production and where that turns out to be insufficient, they are currently paying some huge sums of money for voluntary overtime. They've still got the option to bring back forced draft as an alleviation too (although I suspect it would have to be at a more palatable rate of pay).

wiggy 27th May 2015 11:58


They've still got the option to bring back forced draft as an alleviation too
You're correct in theory but I think in the current climate/with the current mood, especially in short haul, such an alleviation would spell the end of BALPA in BA.

bluepilot 27th May 2015 12:24

quote : You're correct in theory but I think in the current climate/with the current mood, especially in short haul, such an alleviation would spell the end of BALPA in BA.

Is that such a bad thing?

Wirbelsturm 27th May 2015 12:31


Is that such a bad thing?
It's that eternal question isn't it? Whilst many of the things BALPA have 'achieved' have polarized the membership you still have to ask what would the scenario be if they hadn't been representing their members over the past years where many airlines have gone to the wall.

Tricky isn't it.

GS-Alpha 27th May 2015 12:36

Wiggy, I'd say you are correct in theory too, but what exactly would BALPA do to prevent such an alleviation?


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