|
Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes
(Post 10591774)
Have the ex-TCX pilots who overwhelmingly voted to stop any DECs at TCX now changed their minds on DEC? Amazing how quickly an opinion changes when the mortgage needs paying. Would TCX Pilots have been happy if the roles were reversed? Tough times for all but perhaps it’s time to have a rethink on strict seniority in certain airlines and also the use of DEC where appropriate. As long as DEC doesn't impact any upgrades planned then FO's can't complain - for sure there might be a squeeze but upgrades should continue |
Originally Posted by Lazydogg
(Post 10591583)
I am 100 percent certain I know what the TUI FOs I have spoken with today would say to that. Those same TUI FOs who have waited patiently for command opportunities that are scarce enough as it is. Apparently some of them (up until 1330ish today) have heard nothing yet from the CC. If that’s true, it’s a disgrace in my opinion. If TCX pilots want to join TUI then they should be joining at the bottom of the list as FOs like the existing guys and girls did. Some of the FOs don’t even know if the CRB has sat yet, and what it all means in terms of their potential career progression going forward. I have always shrugged my shoulders and said “decent career move can’t knock it” when many an FO I’ve flown with over the last number of years has said they are joining TUI. For what’s it’s worth I won’t be anymore if this shambles goes ahead. I wish no bad on the TCX guys, but I genuinely feel for the guys in the RHS at TUI. Its absolutely wrong and you know it MACDO. Would this have happened in TCX if the roles were reversed? |
Air UK Leisure did this years ago (1991) when Air Europe went bust - took on a load of ex Air Europe B737 DEC and put them at the bottom of the seniority list. Suitably qualified, and senior enough, individuals couldn’t upgrade or transfer. Every suitable FO above first DEC at bottom of list should get passover pay - but that won’t happen. i learned my lesson about the limitations of seniority lists at an early stage of my career. Company can do what it wants - at least you know where you stand now. |
I don’t recall any vote about DEC within TCX. In fact a significant number were taken on the DC10 fleet in MyTravel. More pertinently, a large and increasing proportion of TCX passengers were being flown by de-facto DEC and DE FOs belonging to ACMI contractors SmartLynx and Avion -to the extent that three bases (EMA/STN/BFS) had already closed for pilots. If abandoning this scheme meant scores of TUI internal promotions I’d agree with the critics. But it wouldn’t; the alternative is a career-smothering influx of ACMI, unlikely to be reversed. |
TUI need to be quick about this. A large number of TCX pilots are already on their way to new positions. A significant number will be getting start dates in the next couple of weeks.
|
DEC is not fair. TUI seniority is like clown seniority these days. First they lock everyone on the 756 fleet and open the gates to less senior 737 pilots to move to 787 now they take DEC. All in the same breath as pension being cut, not a great pay deal and top dog CC member gets a management position. House of cards.
|
Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes
(Post 10591774)
Have the ex-TCX pilots who overwhelmingly voted to stop any DECs at TCX now changed their minds on DEC? Amazing how quickly an opinion changes when the mortgage needs paying. Would TCX Pilots have been happy if the roles were reversed? Tough times for all but perhaps it’s time to have a rethink on strict seniority in certain airlines and also the use of DEC where appropriate. To answer your question re role reversal, would TC guys have been happy if it happened during normal times, of course not. But these are unprecedented times, and I can categorically say that if the boot was on the other foot, and TCX guys had a choice of DECs and expanding the business, or digging the heels in and the business stagnating while cut throat competitors jumped in with 2 feet, I know which would have been the preferred option for the vast majority! |
No axe to grind myself having bailed out three years ago and landed safely ! On the plus side, a chance for Tui to expand and absorb a good proportion of TCX business. On the down side the old spectre of DEC pissing off existing TUI right hand seaters. However it should be remembered that there has been significant progress down the seniority list for new commands over the last 2-3 years and as such there should not be many long serving FO's, ready for command, who are affected in the short term. Never much liked the seniority system myself and as far I know, Tui still operate the 'one list' version rather than two lists, one for each seat. Overall, I think the 'glass half full' approach will serve most pilots well. Hopefully, many TCX pilots are already finding jobs elsewhere in the industry. |
It will be interesting to see what TUI are offering. They were charging £7000 a year (3 years, pre tax) for type ratings/OCC not so long ago. Combine that with the part year option on offer and I don't think a huge number of ex TCX pilots will be breaking the door down to get in.
There are lots of other things available. |
TUI DEC NTR only ex TCX can apply! :rolleyes:
|
Has all external recruitment other than ex-TCX stopped at Tui now? Is anyone other than ex-TCX starting anytime soon?
|
Originally Posted by macdo
(Post 10591524)
I think if you read the communication released by TUI and by their CC it is clear that they are taking the 50 TCX skippers on because they don't have the training capacity to promote enough FO's into the left seats created by the sudden rapid and unexpected expansion of their s20 operation.
How long is it from an interview, to a job offer, to a full 737 TR, to line training over the winter where training is already at maximum capacity and there is fewer sectors available compared to an already 737 TR’ed command ready FO? Expansion is good news, don’t get me wrong but I’m not sure the company are going down the right path with regard to the timeframe available for Summer 20. |
Indeed, if limited training capacity is the justification, why is it restricted to TCX who are almost all needing a full type rating ... while there are many very experienced type rated captains, some of whom are under threat of redundancy or significant upheaval, who would leap at the opportunity, and burden the training capacity far less, or TUI copilots who could upgrade, and be replaced by external type rated FOs.
|
Is it even legal to discriminate in such an overt way? Tesco are recruiting for shelf stackers but only ex-Asda employees can apply - it’s the same thing in my eyes. In fact, thinking about it, it’s even worse because TUi are limiting their DEC recruitment to pilots from only one employer who are not even rated on the TUi types. I think if I was in the market for a DEC position and not ex-Tcx I’d have a very strong legal case, I’m even more amazed that BALPA seem happy with this arrangement.
|
Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes
(Post 10596973)
Is it even legal to discriminate in such an overt way? Tesco are recruiting for shelf stackers but only ex-Asda employees can apply - it’s the same thing in my eyes. In fact, thinking about it, it’s even worse because TUi are limiting their DEC recruitment to pilots from only one employer who are not even rated on the TUi types. I think if I was in the market for a DEC position and not ex-Tcx I’d have a very strong legal case, I’m even more amazed that BALPA seem happy with this arrangement.
It's a dirty game. Been in it for 30 years. |
Indeed, if limited training capacity is the justification, why is it restricted to TCX who are almost all needing a full type rating ... while there are many very experienced type rated captains, some of whom are under threat of redundancy or significant upheaval, who would leap at the opportunity, and burden the training capacity far less, or TUI copilots who could upgrade, and be replaced by external type rated FOs. |
never flown a Boeing |
I’ve just checked the advert for ex-TCX DEC, it very specifically states “All positions will be on the B737”. You’ll be struggling to find any 737 experience with ex-Tcx pilots so there is most definitely a training burden associated with this. |
Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes
(Post 10597261)
I’ve just checked the advert for ex-TCX DEC, it very specifically states “All positions will be on the B737”. You’ll be struggling to find any 737 experience with ex-Tcx pilots so there is most definitely a training burden associated with this. You’ve made it quite obvious that it’s a huge problem to you, so for that reason I genuinely hope it is managed well and your aren’t as disadvantaged as you obviously fear. If it is well managed then it’s an opportunity for all. That said, the deal is so unappealing in many respects you may well get your wish anyway! |
Hi guys
I have an assessment day next month. If anybody is reading this who went to this type of selection during the last round of recruitment with Thomson then I'd really appreciate some feedbacks on what to expect to aid my preparation. Has anybody been to their current assessments already or do you have one soon? Available via PM if needed I'm particularly interested in what the technical test entails. ATPL theory or aptitude/maths verbal reasoning or a combination of both? Maybe type specific questions on type?:ugh: Thank you in advance for your help, Good flights to all ! |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 04:04. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.