Space pig: please do not suggest that Ryanair could be a good place to work. Mol has proved that he is not a reasonable or fair employer and that exploitation is part of the business model. Leopards don't change their spots, they may become a little cunning though for a while.

Just my humble opinion.:rolleyes:

Harry, from what I understand the deal is bonded; how much for and for how long is unknown. Sim and ground school training more than likely conducted at East Midlands as this is where the level D sims are. They do use CAE in Amsterdam, but it is usually for cadet overflow. Expect to pay for your Hotac when training. Line training can be done anywhere across the network, this is rostered after the sim. The same Hotac scenario I'm affraid.

The deal will be per Storm McGinley. Contact them for rates. As a skipper expect 800-900 hours a year. Don't know what FOs are doing now, but presently it's a lot due to higher attrition. Things tend to die down more for FOs in the winter. Can't comment on what will happen later this year. If offered a permanent contract it will be per the base agreement. I believe this recruitment is base specific so when assigned a base you will be given the pay deal. I'd imagine a base will be assigned prior to training. This is unusual territory for Ryanair however it has been the case during previous DEP hiring.

UK base - maybe, but those within are seriously hoping this will not be the case. There are literally hundreds in both seats awaiting transfers and any parachuting of DEPs into UK bases with long waiting lists is going to cause tensions. My option only, so who knows?

Cheers Callsign Kilo.

Who would it cause tension with? In my experience that would surprise absolutely nobody in Ryanair. Last time I checked the basing system was at their mercy and there was no transparent list - seniority or otherwise. In my opinion if a DEP gave Ryanair an ultimatum of UK base or nothing they would give them the UK if supply and demand warrants it. Given the lack of union membership the company can do what they want.

If a cadet got the base you've been wishing for years they were most likely sent there against their will and everyone would benefit from a swap. If a DEP got the base of your choice as a result of an ultimatum made by them, I would consider that grossly unfair and unethical.

In my opinion the entire system of basing in your company is not transparent and consequently is grossly unfair. There is no tension now and in my experience no Ryanair pilot would challenge any DEP who managed to get or force his way into his desired base.

No, that's right. Everyone would sit back and remain happy. Yes, ultimately nothing gets done because, as you say, there is no union and no basing system. However, in the past, there were no jobs elsewhere. Now there is. So you're potentially robbing Peter to pay Paul. And Paul could be a further loser as DEP courses don't carry a 100% success rate. If your adding unrated pilots with no experience of FR ops, then the potential for issues increase. I did however admit that no one knows about UK bases being available or not, so your theories about ultimatums could prove correct. All in my opinion and you may be right, but honestly I think your just trying to stir the pot.

However, something to consider is that there is a big difference between having your base of choice and actually ever working there !

In all honesty though gents, I don't see the point of anyone with any real experience joining FR unless they get exactly the base they want. Chances are that if you have the experience they require, all the options current FR guys are bleeding away to are options for you as well. This might not be so easy for FR. Obviously it's 'unfair' for existing crew, but don't blame a DEP parachuting in. It's not their fault for making demands in a company that has no union and no seniority. Such is low cost.

Can someone tell me what is the pay for permanent contract as FO? Does it change with experience?

Basic
Sector
Duty
Roster
?

I will appreciate a straight answer from someone who knows.

DEP at Ryanair
 

Ryanair FO STN Permanent Contract- All figures in Pound Sterling.
Basic: £20,000 + £5000 subsidy
Sector Pay: £20 (approx) sbh.
Duty Pay: Hahahaha
Uniforms & ID's: pay for yourself
Car park: pay for yourself
Holiday pay 26days approx and pension is minimum...

How tight do you reckon they will be with the requirements I am rated etc and just a couple of 100 hours short.."....

wow, not interesting at all... glad I"ll be back in asia...
at least they pay my uniform, medical, sims and hotels.

If FR wants really to change, they should start by paying pilots uniforms !!

even Mcdonald gives you uniform... :rolleyes:

DEP at Ryanair
 

If you're rated... Why would you go there?!! It depends where you're coming from. I'd say if you're close they'd give you an interview at least.

thank you galwaypilot

I really need the information as ryanair is my only chance to go back to home country.

so is it then best to apply for a contract instead?

Stable check.
There are many different contracts around. Don't know the detail of the dep FO contract (would like to know) storm for cadets is 75 euro per block hour -4.50 sim cost per hour after 1500 hours in ryr.

And you think they'll base you where YOU want!

You obviously don't know many there already.

stable checked,

if you want to be based in your home country ryanair is the LAST place you should be applying.

Exactly.
A lot of people make a lot of the idea that at Ryanair you are home every night. Wrong. You are on the ground every night - it's a very different thing for many pilots.

has anyone heard anything from this bunch? :ooh:

DEP at Ryanair
 

Well in my opinion this is the way it is. MOL & co are doing what they can to avoid dealing with current pilots and enter contractual talks to improve conditions. So instead they get guys who are eager for jet time and in turn are willing to accept the bare minimum. Thus saving lots of €€. So in summary MOL has no intention in improving T&C's. So he'll do what he can before being faced with the realisation he just might have to give in.

Joining FR has it's pluses and minuses.

Pluses- IF (big if) you get the base you want, it's interesting flying and a great roster. Provided you gets 5-4! The training dept in my opinion is a well oiled machine and it works. If you plan to move on to EK etc it's a great platform to start on and is well recognised world wide. New aircraft, and the jump seating is a handy ticket to have!

Minuses- ok where do I start!! Well the culture/moral is horrid being honest. It's clear as day management really don't like their staff and you get 0% respect. Even MOL goes on a Irish late night chat show and calls his own pilots glorified taxi drivers. I sat next to David O'Brian and Declan Ryan once when jumpseating. Said hello, reply: none! Says it all! Anyway the problem is if you pay for your TR you'll have lots of expenses to write off so things will seem ok for the first two years but after that, well you're looking at around €2500pm after tax because you're paying the employers national insurance contribution and your own and income tax. In places like Italy, that's 50% of your income. You pay for medicals, uniforms, loss of licence, pensions yourself. The basing policy is completely random. I know of people trying to get to Dublin and they are waiting for three years. A guy joins tomorrow he can get Dublin. Mad! The Ryanair contract has a basic so low that if FR doesn't fly you well it still costs them peanuts! I think though they will have to contribute to the employers national insurance so if based in Italy this could be beneficial. Also they set the Ryanair contracts as per the local cost of living. So Poland is cheaper to live in than the UK. Pay them less. But what happens if you're British and commuting? I'd say you're getting my point.

But in essence, FR don't value experience, they value cost. That's it... So if the likes of NOR and THY, EXS, BA, EI, EZY, EK etc remain on their recruitment spree FR may have to face the fact that they might lose this one. If the others stop any time soon. I say FR have got the upper hand. As we'll have no where to go and a crap contract is better than no contract. The egg timer is ticking...

Stable Checked, I can guarantee you won't get the base you want and almost guarantee you won't get the right country. Newly promoted captains with young families are sent away from their long term base and families, even though there are shortages within that base, just because the company can do so. I have seen two captains want to swap bases to be nearer home, both on the same roster pattern (dates and shifts), so there would have been no effort or disruption to the company and several advantages (shorter response time on sby and less tired pilots from long drives, for example), but they were told that their swap would under no circumstances be permitted! Why? Because they can... And this happens hundreds of times a year.

So join if you need the job, but not for any perception of basing options.

This has probably been Posted before, but it says it all when the customers feel bad - let alone the staff:

Ryanair voted WORST brand in Britain and Lush BEST in Which? survey: See the top ten lists - Mirror Online

STable checked,
Maybe you could do like many of us, go to Asia, or ME, where the money is, and save a max of cash, work bloody hard for 5 years, and quit and get retired...
by definition being a pilot is not being at home. Otherwise you become a state agent.

Aluminium,
"Why? Because they can...."
No, because the pilots let them...

Beachbum- Slightly unfair.

Yes there's a portion of truth. It goes back to the early 00's then our beloved "chief pilot" allowed the zero hour contracts to be introduced. And because Europe was "loaded" they really turned a blind eye to it all, and people were paying very little tax (if even at all in some cases) when working for Brookfield. And this suited most at the time. But since the bust, each country wants their share.

But the best way to control a country is to allow them go bust, bail them out and once you control the debt, you control the country. FR use this very tactic. Get a cadet/captain who has a large level of dept. Put him/her in slightly more debt, and give them a job! Dear cadet/captain you're going to be based in the back arse of nowhere. Enjoy! Dear Ryanair- thank you! Because if I say no I'm out of here and back to the dole office to pay off my €130,000 loan. Ryanair controls the purse strings thus they control you. Unless you leave! Ryanair-1 Pilot- 0

Galway,
Yes, but if the pilots had fought for a systemwide contract these things wouldn't be happening today.
And don't blame the chief pilot, the pilots share most of the blame.

Don't think RC had any say, and possibly not even an opinion in this. Think instead that purveyor of "great ideas" (like asking pilots to pay €50 up-front to submit their C.V's ) DD (sometimes of Brookfield allegiance) or some of the other notables DOB/EW well, you know the cast.

I think the C.P. whilst he has done /does do well courtesy of his post , is actually just a little "above" all this disgusting nonsense that has gone on. Sure he has to tolerate it, and he is happy to take whatever bonuses are thrown his way, but I think he has more class than to be associated with inventing/condoning it.

Just my personal opinion of course, based on interacting with the characters involved.

And yes, the pilots are the ones mainly to blame, the unseemly rush to jack in a permanent position (in many cases still claiming back Irish tax) to sign up as a Bona Fida Slut back in 200(4?) had to be seen to be believed. The increase (except for "Super-Whore" LTC's doing 100hr/mth all Line Tng & netting €15,000 a mth ) was only around +10% if you had been contacting the Irish Revenue to claim "something" back, I personally couldn't see it myself.

The idea of "Based Contractor" was always a little bit tenuous too, but no, the Lemmings couldn't see it coming. However, no sweat, those that made it the norm, have now stashed enough away in the bank & moved on. . . so, that is alright then :mad:

A very good post indeed Captainplaystation. And now, ten years on, you have guys paying employee and employers national insurance where they are based plus a relatively high income tax within Ireland. Added to this, contractors are seeing more towns and cities than the littlest hobo at the moment. A couple of days here, a few days there. A real adventure.

I wasn't around on the dates that you mention however I did fly with a fair few tax non-conformants who were very open about how their gross salary = their net salary. Guys raking in more cash than your most senior legacy wide body Captain. Some are now ruined, lost houses, assets; it all caught up with them. Others are hiding out in far flung locations shaking out the sand from their boots or breathing in rancid air, knowing that an unhappy tax official is waiting for them back home. I have no sympathy for any of them. And you can't blame Ryanair on this. This lot knew what they were doing.

And I agree with the sentiment. These contracts are and remain the pilots' problem.

Regardless of the shortsighted and naive actions of a group a decade ago, of which I was not a member, that doesn't justify the management deliberately breaking up families with their basing policy, and nor does it justify an uninformed pillock like beachbum slagging off the pilots for "allowing it". RYR have and continue to use every maneouver to block any unionisation or representation so that they can continue to dictate unfair terms and conditions, create unreasonable contracts and break them at their whim with no come back. The pilots have been trying to get some traction going, but BALPA miscalculated a while back and now are too scared to support the RPG, the chap that tried to start a competitor to Brookfield to recruit volunteers on better terms got publicly fired for challenging the status quo and countless other examples have been made. It's easy to fight management when you have representation and a strong union with deep pockets, but when the authorities of a backwards nation collude with the employer to block these basic rights, then it's "their way or the highway". Hence the massive resignation rate.

The answer, as always, is in your own hands.

Either you like it and get on with it - or hate it and leave.

Moaning achieves nothing and there will always be large numbers of pilots who put with/accept the current T&Cs.

I bet MOL has a giggle every night reading these Posts and realises that he is successful with his policies and that they will continue unabated.

He knows that the 'personal reasons' that pilots moan about are also the personal reasons that keep them at Ryanair.

Anybody got a call after applying?

I don't know whether to be happy for you, that you never had a day challenging enough to feel the need to distance yourself from Managements assertion that you are a bus/taxi/truck driver, or to be slightly concerned that you haven't quite grasped the situation you are in.

Whilst we are, indeed, not astronauts, I , personally speaking, have enough days that present enough challenges wholly unlikely to be conquered by the average "truckie", that I am willing to defend fairly vociferously my entitlement to be rewarded on a different level.

If you aren't, I suggest you don't have a flying f*** of an idea what you are doing, or you have the luck of the devil.

Sorry but this whole busdriver argument is just nowhere near the truth I have not flown airbus but now on the Boeing and on my fifth typerating. I still see when **** hits the fan you loose even a 2000 hour co pilot (not all of them) in a matter of a minute and you are on your own. Now granted knock on wood this happens 2 or 3 times a year or even less if your lucky. But those are the moments the busdriver gets to pull over and park the bus. And we either come up with the goods or there can and will be dire consequences. Bus driving licence is what, a couple of grand and a few weeks Pilot, licence 100000 plus 2+ years and then your still not allowed to take the bus by yourself untill you have thousends of hours under your belt. So please stop with this nonsence argument.

no problem, I know that but as I said, you don't have to say that to me, but to O'leary or any management...for them, yes you are. Otherwise the T and C would be a lot more interesting.

It is good judgement that prevents us from having to use our hard earned skills. And good judgement does not come free. When the proverbial hits the fan, I hope I'm sitting next to somebody that had the good sense to realize that this is not a bus we are driving and worked hard to gain the skills and knowledge required to deal with it.

I was that 200 hour kid just like everyone else was at some point and it's not like I'm so old or massively experienced now (2K A320 and 1.5K DH8D). It's not only about the amount of hours that you've logged. Some people will be early adopters, others will never learn no matter how hard they try. I'd be inclined to say that it has everything to do with your aptitude, attitude and approach to the profession. If you take things seriously and do the work, you can learn quick and progress through the ranks at a steady rate. If you always remain an immature kid that got put behind the controls of a big bus, then there is no hope of ever bearing responsibility. Not even mentioning the fact that I think it's a really bad idea to put people on Airbus type airplanes straight after initial flight training, flying with SOP's that are so hammered down that you never get to see anything beyond your current company envelope. Autopilot on at 200, off at 200, auto thrust all day every day, no visual approaches, barely any practice really apart from the 6 monthly simulator. I consider myself lucky that my current operator doesn't do things this way and encourages us to fly and hone our skills, but the industry is suffocating people that never got significant experience in conventional airplanes. Consequently they wonder why people can't fly worth a damn anymore and blame things on pilot error. How about 'Systemic industry shortcoming resulting in pilot error'? In a lot of cases that would sound pretty fair to me.

Your exposure is so low to actual flying and what you are required to be able to do that as an inexperienced 200 hour cadet I am afraid you will never gain experience in the basic skills that make an aviator and hence become a computer operator. That part is easy; it's when things go wrong when we really have to work and that's why we are there and deserve good working conditions. But I guess I am drifting off topic.

the reason why RYR captains should have better T and C is because they fly with 200 hs kids on RHS. Flying single pilot should be better paid. :}

What a stupid statement. The Ryanair Captain was once a 200 hour kid. He/She then became a captain.

Single pilot? This forum at times really is pathetic.

The argument that the captain was a 200h once, is not a reason to accept anything.

yes indeed, but now, you find in a cockpit of a JAR 25, a 25 y/o captain with 2000h of B737 and no experience outside of a Boieng, and a 200h copi.

whereas in USA you'll never find this. You will find a 57 captain with 15000h and a 50 y/o copi with 9000h, On a FAR25 plane.

go figure.

Some of you may feel attacked or else, but don't let your emotions hiding sad facts. Be objective.