Captain 4800 in a good month? I expected that figure to be higher...

Does that include sector pay etc??

Just to show the deterioration this last while . . when I parted company with them in 2008 I was earning around €7000 net after Irish tax paid on a full time Irish contract.

If we allow for "real" inflation of around 5%/P.A. rather than the "Euro-friendly" 3% they would have us believe, the equivalent today would be €9100. . . . doesn't make €5000 (I have been told often less with the yearly total divided by 12mths) seem a very respectable renumeration.

Ah yes, how wonderful to "negotiate directly" with employees rather than allow a flight crew association to get involved.

What is the Easy jet "negotiated" average ? I would guess around €9000 ?. . . funny that.

Funny because I know a few FO (contractors) on good bases flying around 70/80 hours per month making well above 5000 net...

I wouldn believe it myself, but I saw the payslips.

PS: a month over 90 hours was in the region of 7000 eur.

True, but keep in mind for the first few years your company expenses can reduce your tax liabilities quite significantly. This instill a false impression in many that paying 15 % or less of the invoiced amount in tax/social contributions is somewhat normal for a company. To the point where many come up with false expenses and receipts just to keep the retention rate high. Before reality catches up with them many move on to other jobs or upgrade.

Bear in mind that a large part of the reason for the mass exodus of experienced
" Command Ready" FO's is that taking a Command & relinquishing their "self employed service provider" status, to then become Ryanair employees if they accept Command, will involve a pay CUT (+ a forced change of base) Hence the requirement for DEC's.

Over the 5 years I was there, my take home pay went DOWN each year. It seems good when you start but it doesn't last. When you take the €/£ exchange rate into account, it was even worse.

Guys, the "shiny jet syndrome" has been attricting thousands and thousands of ballsless 20 years old european cadets who are dreaming of publishing pics of themselves on facebook.com and youtube.com with their 2,3 and then, 4 stripes (3 years later), even if they are paid peanuts and treated like a mexican illegal immigrant in the USA. Ryanair is a :mad: airline, of course, but it's just surfing on this big golden wave. This industry is pathetic and has absolutely NO future and NO stability. Nowdays, pilots are definitaly busdrivers, applying strict SOPs on fully automatic airplanes. There is nothing glamourous whatsoever. Do you really belive that operating an A380 from Dubai to LAX is the same job as flying a B747-100 from JFK to LGW in the years 60's??? C'mon, be honnest!...

Some other sorts of aviation cancers are broker agencies, CTC/oxford aviation, (cadets/ money maker), MPL licences, and so on.

:yuk:

Wind check you might want to check it. It could be that those "20 year old balls less" pilots are actually just young men who busted a gut to put themselves in a position at 20 to go to flight school, with that childhood dream of flying just as you did, did well, graduated and realised that the self improver turboprop freighter, instructor whatever work has completely dried up, it DOES NOT exist on the scale required. The ONLY option are these airlines and going in to yet more debt to be able to keep our heads above water and pay our current debt.

It's alright to insult from a distance, but don't tar everyone with the same rich daddy, Facebook poser brush. There are many strokes to brush back. Why did you not go out on strike the day Ryanair et al suggested paying for a type rating?

Sorry to rise, but too often young pilots bear the brunt of a problem that is not entirely their fault. Of course some contribute, but the profession and industry as a whole must take responsibility. It's far too easy to place the burden on those who don't have a voice on the flight deck.

Windcheck - a quick look at your vitriolic posting history demonstrates just how massive your balls are. I'd like to see you say half of what you post on here to the face of a 21 yr old FO. I really would love to see that so much...

@wind_check : Sir, i don't think calling the new generation "balls less" is giving them credit.. the only ones "balls less" are the one's from the generation of flying those classics across the pond, instead of using their clout to help this industry migrate into a more acceptable business model they opted for the NIMBY attitude, and when retirement hit, they happily joined the mary band of Flight Schools that now suck the new generation dry, so they can get a dollar extra. Oh and maybe when they finally mastered the electronic deviance.. complain on forums like these about the new generation not worth a penny.

I am not talking about the group that got caught in the middle, lost pensions to dubious bankruptcy and money grabbing CEO's.. that are now flying around in the desert because they need to make up for lost "investments".

I guess you get the drift.. I am just so disappointed in this website having turned into this ranting place, where every self proclaimed aviator can have his say.. where is the time that we helped each other to a job, had interesting and fun conversations with Controllers, even brought them chocolates from time to time.. i guess when a FS2000 type rating started to count for something.. that was when the decline started.. :{

I am not distorting anything, not working for FR I dont really give two :mad: about it, I am just reporting what I saw. I was not convinced my self.

I saw a payslip with 98 hours in a month and the total was what I wrote before.

It is a friend FO with more than 2000 hours in the company, flying in the region of 70/80 hours every month (italian base). The hourly rate was in excess of 80 euros per hour.
The type rating was already entirely deducted, but you are right when you say that a lot of questionable expenses are still deducted.

He reported me that the Captains with the new contract are just making very little more than them, which is of course not fair.

The truth is that with this company set up, these first officers you talk about often have to pay as much as 38% social security in a country where they will never benefit from any pension. This is because they will be sent there not by choice and they find themselves with a huge bill for the EMPLOYERS contribution to social security and then there's the tax on top of that. I know first officers who take home no more than 40% of their salary. In the winter they often take home less than 1400 euros.
And yes the new captains contract is a complete insult.
After investing best part of 200 thousand euros in your future you should expect a salary to match. Ryanair never invested a single penny in you and offer now salaries in the region go 46,000 euros out of bases such as Krackow. In real terms with sector pay, you will be taking home less than 4000 euros a month and forking out extra for an apartment at you base. Your real income now is gonna be more like 3000 euros a month once you account for these extra expenses.

In Italy they are deducting about 300 euros in social security from FO salary, pretty far from 38%, but might be different somewhere else.

Keep telling yourself that Dirk. Keep repeating the mantra. You may even start to believe it yourself one day.

I'm with Dirk on this one. As a formal Ryanair contractor there where many months of more then 5K nett. Especially when flying out of base. My record was around 8K.

Yes there are a few pay checks which hit 7 or 8 grand. There are other months where you earn little and at least one month where you earn nothing. Not a single euro.

Over 12 months the net pay is modest and doesn't take into account many business related expenses many other airlines would cover. The net pay is also under scrutiny in many jurisdictions as are the social payments.


Brag if you want but please do so with a health warning, it is not fair to anyone considering joining Ryanair to be presented by you solely with figures of 8,000 euro.

It is absolutely impossible to say how much a Ryanair captain earns. There's too many contracts and variations and laws affecting pay etc. It's a complete lottery and there's no jackpot either. Pay goes from zero to God knows what, fact. Rosters vary also, as base captain it's kind of mon to fri, as base tre it's mon to thurs (and fri sat sun if you like a bit of day off triggering lol) it's 5-4 or 5-3 depending on base and or contract status (days off even vary in base) and there's a few lucky guys (in my opinion) on 5-5 floating contracts. You can be lucky and get a good base with a good bc and trainers or you can end up somewhere in the sticks with a bc who reckons the boer war is still going on and an equally useless tre (until management show up and both behave impeccably) It can be a great place to work if all the pieces fit, and if you like being home every night think again, 'home' might not be where you imagine it's going to be hence the above comment about floating, at least that way you know where you stand. You'll get no leave in summer unless you are one of the above mentioned Bc or base tre but you'll have a month off in winter, if that's your thing. It's the way the business works so you just need to deal with that. Christmas same deal, although some do get December off. I think the company may indeed be in a bit of bother with people leaving so I think any dec candidate is in a good position to negotiate terms (I can see this really aggravating current eh, employees? Lol) as always the market dictates our t and c's, the market is good right now so make the most of it whilst it lasts fellas.

A new captain will NOT earn 9000 euros gross.
New captains contracts are seeing guys TAKE HOME no more than 4000 euros per month in many new bases. This is a fact!
This is the future for people joining Ryanair.
Stop spreading rubbish about fantasy salaries!

Do you actually understand the difference between 'gross' and 'net'? :rolleyes:

One is what you earn and the other is what you 'take home'!

Yes I do understand the difference. And your point is what exactly? There's no point in quoting hourly rates or gross figures when individual pilots are being hit for the EMPLOYERS portion of social security in a country they don't even choose to live and will never benefit from a pension there.
What matters is what people TAKE HOME and yes I do understand that is net before you get your knickers in a twist.
Captains TAKE HOME as little as 3000 euros a month when you consider their own personal operating costs and extra living expenses from having to run another flat and a car at their base.
And yes some first officers will take home little more than 1000 euros during winter months when you look at the overall cost to them too.

Keep telling yourself that odearyoleary. Keep repeating the mantra. You may even start to believe it yourself one day.

"the market is good right now so make the most of it whilst it lasts fellas."


This is the quote of the day, thank you themanthelegend.




Dirk, you told it yourself, you do not work for Ryanair , and it shows as you talk absolute nonsense




The market it getting better by the day and there are still countries and companies that treat you with respect and for which you feel proud to work for even if it means moving to the sand or the east. Flying can still be a great career like it was 2-3 decades ago before 9-11, but you need to find it in the above mentioned places.


For the pink glasses types:I have seen the greatest optimists changing into the opposite within months of joining.


Feel free to choose if you want to join them or not, but do not say you have not been warned by all the postings on these forums.
If you want to join, now is probably the best time as many have moved to greener pastures, but it sure is no rose garden here.


as always my own opinion.

What odearyoleary says is essentially correct.

Might be a good market but:

I am still an FO with more then 7000hrs and not able to find an operator willing to hire me as CPT. Even in carriers where they have tre that learned to fly or were checked by me...

Still many carrier continue to hire only type rated pilots....

So: too me this is still a crappy market.

Back on topoc: anybody heard anything after applying?

You must have missed something.

Hi

Expected time to command for a rated NG pilot with 1400hrs on type, 10k TT and 4k 756?

Right hand seat long haul is very difficult to compare with Ryan Air's left seat.

I would suggest probably 6-9 months depending on when you join with that level of experience.

Direct entry command for an FO always has been and always will be a very difficult trick to pull of.

500hrs and a winter with us.

Not difficult as long as you meet the requirements and can learn the SOPs

Yes that's the requirement on the manuals.

A more realistic figure is around 1 year/800h.

Thanks.

Bases available for this current round of recruitment?

All of them, I would think! RYR seem short of crew everywhere. There was a recent memo that they would like to send new entrants to the less popular bases to enable those "with time in" to transfer to the bases they have been wanting so very long. While that may help stemn losses, it does make attracting new entrants more difficult, though, so it'll be interesting to see who gets priority on basing; new joiners or old staff.

The tried and tested system in the past ,when they have been short, has been to be interviewed/accepted, and then when the offer comes, state plainly that you will only accept if given XYZ base. It worked in the past when they were short, I cannot see them sacrificing their short term needs merely to satisfy the long-term contentment of any incumbent (un)happy bunnies.

Not pretty/fair but hey, you are joining them, may as well get used to it . . .your turn will come soon enough to be on the receiving end.

In my humble opinion of course.

I think that's exactly what'll happen. I've never seen any long term mentality there, or anything other than hollow platitudes to the existing staff.

I wouldn't be so sure this time round Capt PS. I feel the new guy in charge at Flight Ops is extremely wary of the crewing situation and how, let us just say, tender it actually is. Miracles will never happen overnight but the guy in question appears to have identified the issue and is attempting to offer some sort of olive branch. There is communication and some level of openness from flight ops. I have even heard that a new 'installation' in STN has been very forthcoming and receptive to crew gripes over basing. As I say, miracles will never happen overnight and some of the communication on offer appears to carry the same old rhetoric; but I'm trying to be positive here. He definitely deserves to be given a chance in an unenviable position.

Previous DECs (its been a while since DEFOs were taken) had been given the base of choice. I'm not saying a bit of this won't go on this time, but they now they appear wary of possible consequences. I'm guessing there'd be massive resentment among established crew, which isn't a good thing when we see the likes of Norwegian, Emirates and Etihad recruiting in vast numbers. Previous Direct Entry hiring has largely taken place when the market was poor (someone went bust and Ryanair capitalised) or when the package on offer was much better (people saw it as a sound financial decision). I'm not sure if either is the case any longer?

This time the hiring is for specific locations and it has been said that these will be the 'less popular bases.' Expect regional Italy, Poland, Greece and Morocco, to name but a few. It will be interesting to see if there are many takers? I for one would like to see a bit of experience in the right seat but I'm also realistic, knowing people's experience/opinions. Hopefully the new guy in charge is slowly turning the ship in the right direction. If so, he deserves credit.

All in my humble opinion as well ;) Alternatively, I might be completely deranged and it'll be back to the status quo!

I hope you're right. There have been one or two decent guys in highish positions before, though, and they have a hell of a battle on their hands with the rest of the management being what they are. I've seen good CEOs parachuted into another similar company to replace one who'd cocked things up and caused mass resignations, only for them to be broken by the company's inertia and the rest of the managers' intransigence. It's a big ask to expect one man to turn the tide, and sadly the rest of the new appointments are the same old faces in new positions like a Cabinet reshuffle.

Keep dreaming . Just another carrot I would say and they are hoping you will follow it until the recruitement is back on track.


the majority of the Captains is applying for other companies as we speak.If offered a base close to home they will probably stay, but after trying for so long without any responses to a base change request, I very much doubt they will suddenly change that Policy.

There is no effort from their side, that shows that they want you to stay, in fact their business model is based upon a system that they make money out of it's workforce:You pay your own simulator sessions(!), own typerating, your own uniform, your own crewmeal, your own hotel,no duty pay, no DH pay, no pay for attending courses, sent to a base you do not want , zero hour contracts, no sick pay, no pension etc.
The Policy is you should leave asap, so new cadets could be hired on which a lot of money can be made...is has worked this system,in the past, but now so many are leaving and mostly captains and experienced FO's it is becoming noticable around the network, with most doing around 90-100 hrs a month, that something needs to change.


The idea that the pilots are an asset not a burden has not reached the higher echelons yet: it is much cheaper to keep good pilots then trying to find new ones...
and offering new pilots bases that the current workforce wants is not going to help the current pilots deciding to stay so it will actually work counterproductive.


My own personal opinion that is(and of many others I speak to)

Has anyone heard of what the deal is with DEP? Is it a bonded scene etc or pay for your TR plus expenses as per the cadet scheme? Any chance of a UK base?