Just in case you're waiting for a reply and wondering about the deafening silence I think someone needs to mention that you might have a long wait for further verification from the "BA guys", especially over the fine details of contracts and recruiting targets/numbers. An announcement has been made elsewhere making it clear that some of the detailed info that has appeared here probably should not have done so (I think I'm safe in posting that..:bored:).


I am sure they (the "BA guys") are still willing to help when they feel they can..:)

Thanks for the update Wiggy.

Anyone on here have their day 1 assessment next week on the 28th? Drop me a PM if you feel like meeting up the night before.

Thanks Wiggy.

I just hope that recruitment opens again sometime soon for those of us who didn't quite make the cut last summer.

Best of luck to all jumping through the hoops at the moment!

wiggy,

This caught my eye - don't suppose there's any subtle elaboration possible? I have one of those contracts and a start date you see...:O

Bucket and Spade

It's nothing catastrophic, just a strong plea from on high for people to be less free and easy with the release of potentially sensitive information.

As you've been through the BA process and have a contract I wouldn't lose any sleep about my comments.

Thanks wiggy.

Can anyone on the 320 give an idea of their last few rosters? Number of days off? Blank/grey days? Overnights? Total duty/flight hours?

I noticed the overtime working day off payment is pretty low in BA, do you ever get a double payment for early start/late finish if it encroaches on a day off either before or after?

Thanks in advance.

The overtime rate at LHR ( LGW is different) is not a daily rate but is dependant on your hourly rate multiplied by 1.25 times the credit for the trip. The hourly rate is broadly speaking your annual salary divides by approximately 1050. All this is underpinned by a minimum daily credit of 4.5

All a bit complex but starting overtime rates mean that you get a minimum of appox £280 plus the allowances accrued for the trip.

During the summer we were working 18-21 days a month. It has eased off a bit now but still about 18 days at work. Usual roster looks something like 6 on usually made up of 2 x 3 day tours 2 or 3 days off then back in for 5 days. Again made up of something like a 3 day tour and a 2 day tour. Another few days off possibly 3 then another 4 or 5 days on with perhaps the odd day trip thrown in. And so it repeats. You can bid for what you want but if your in the bottom 30% forget being able to get anything other than a blind line. AKA no choice.

Day off payment.......about £240 before tax....so about £120 in your pocket.

How many hours? I really don't know but flying hours mean bugger all. What I can say is you will spend many more hours away from home

Duty time from a normal line is about 280hrs a month

Cheers for the help guys, sounds like you lot are working damn hard. Is short haul going to change with easa limitations? Ie get even harder?

Balpa has agreed to roster SH only to EASA FTL's......the long haul fleets are still covered by the old agreement. I understand there is a bit of an argument between what the company and the union think they agreed to.

The amount of credit per trip in a block of work has been reduced so we can expect to have to work another day a month when CAP is high. I was doing 20-21 days a month last summer and still could not reach CAP because the trip credit was so low. Eg say CAP is 89hrs divide this by minimum day credit of 4.5 and you get 20 days work to meet cap. Now the duty rig has been changed you won't get 4.30 per day in a block of work but more like 4.15 so now you have to work 22 days to achieve the same credit. The FTL are now EASA and the new tables have entered our manuals.

The benefit for the company is in them being able to build in more time between our flights when we turn round at home base. Inefficient you would think? Apparently not as it enables the program to be far more robust during disruption. If you are late inbound with an aircraft swap and a minimum turn around time then your next flight goes late. With this system the flight crew are waiting to take the plane off you as they have had a long turn around. They get out ASAP and you now have what was a long turnaround reduced to something approaching normal so you can now get your program back on time. Thats the theory and it makes no difference to the company in cost if your on duty pay in a comfy hotel or a grotty windowless staff canteen. I don't think our time away from base is going to increase because that would increase the cost base but more time in uniform and less time down route is a given

So I don't sound like a complete arse I would sum it up like this. The company asks a lot of you and in return they offer a good package (maybe not the best but competitive) The company in my experience has been very good when i have needed dependency leave and or injury / illness.

If you don't live near London then you really need to think very carefully about your salary and cost of accommodation. Friends of mine commute and to put it very mildly it has been difficult on them and their families.

Truth of BA in the bottom 3rd I am afraid.

Doors Closed
 

Its over for this years recruitment. I went as a widebody Captain, for the interviews. Was offered long haul FO on the triple. After tax , take home around £5000/ month. It cant bring home the bacon.
Interesting career though, if you are under 30. For me , nah BA but thanks for the good people i got to meet for post interview beers ;)

What do you mean doors closed? The application window shut ages ago but the interviews etc are still on going.

Can't say I've heard anything about 777 being offered outside the company....or 5000/month take home in the first year!

£5000 a month after tax - someone has been a little optimistic with the numbers.

Thanks for the informative post bex. It's really appreciated. I've been offered a position and I'm trying to weigh my options up leaving a very enjoyable UK position with another airline (we're not loco). When you say package, apart from salary and pension and staff travel. What else do you feel is good from BA?

PHI?
Private health insurance?
LoL?
Tax free share scheme?

When I say package I really only think of the pay into my account each month and how I am treated. The pay is not terrible but its not the best. I do however feel looked after by the company and every now and then dare I say I feel valued too. Pension is about market average, maybe slightly above. Health care is good and I hope I never need to call on it but loss of license I don't think is very generous.

Staff travel in my opinion when you first join is close to worthless. It like most things is based on seniority so you can get bumped by pretty much anyone when your new.

Tax free share scheme :} yeah brilliant until it comes to paying out. The deal is then modified and the shares are not awarded but a cash payment instead. IAG said no.

BA is hard when you first join and if your unlucky you will spend years at the bottom with no control over your life.

Of all the airlines I have flown for whilst I would say BA is good in the respect of living in the uk and having some security you do have to pay a heavy price for that. It would not be the easiest job I have had but it may well be the one that keeps me in employment until I retire.

If your at Thomson, Easy on a good contract or Virgin I would probably stay put but otherwise its probably a wise move.

Is staff travel really that bad? It's part of the appeal for me - IN THEORY. With wife and two kids, have I basically got no chance to get myself and family on a flight across the pond any time during school holidays? Be brutally honest :ok:

Is it after 5 years that it gets a bit better with "guaranteed" ticket?

BA future recruitment
 

For those of us that battled hard at this years selection and unfortunately missed a step or two is there going to be a similar number required next year or will FPP cover future intakes.

All the best to those that got through.

Of course "better" is a relative term. Even with the once/twice a year enhanced priority ticket you pick up after a few years you are still going to quite possibly be on standby if you're trying to travel as a family over a holiday period, especially to the family friendly destinations.

Wiggy seems to know more about this than me but I would not make your move based on being able to hope on staff travel here there and everywhere. Many many times have I had the conversation about the gamble of staff travel. The risk of being stuck, transferring to another airport because loads are less or buying guaranteed tickets for the wife and kids. These are guys with 15 years service! When it works though.....first class JFK and back thank you.

You have the little issue of work getting in the way of all this play time though :ugh:

Harry: I hear all sorts of rumor on recruitment. Some are saying that since Crystal has been put in charge of establishing the required numbers they have dropped significantly. There had been a lot of talk from ops about how good Crystal was going to be so I do hope her mini skirt is a short as they say.

Thanks Bex.

Thanks for straight answer :sad:

What to do, what to do... The money in the Orange left seat is nice... But 45 sectors a month / 5 earlies in a row /etc... I'd never leave for SH, but LH is one tricky choice.

*scratches head*

Anyone else in the sim in the first week of Feb?

Would be good to get in touch!

Permafrost_ATPL

I had similar thoughts but then sensibly came to this conclusion: it's a short-term decision if you go with a LH offer just because it's LH. I know, you can have a very nice lifestyle part-time LHS with EZY (despite what people say, there is some terrible rostering but BA guys are working just as hard with 6 days on in a row - it becomes what you can make of the options available). Not only could you be reassigned SH (debate likelihood elsewhere) but in a few years those who joined on SH and are transferring to LH will still have seniority over you. Joining BA is a full career move and you're better off in the longer term (and at the end of your career) getting in early on SH. That way you will retire with higher seniority and that means better lifestyle. Patience is a virtue - annoyingly. Best of luck.

With regard to staff travel I am still very junior and I have found it works very well. You get one Club ticket for you and family after 6 months with the company but clearly you have to pick your flights sensibly.

Trying to get on the 1 Orlando flight a day in the middle of August is not likely to succeed but trying to get on one of the 20 flights a day to New York or Newark is much more likely.

If you are using it for your family holiday in the summer it is a last minute task. Find the open flights or destinations then book the accomodation. DON'T book your accomodation in January and then expect to get on your flight of choice during the summer holidays. For me it has been very successful but my wife is very flexible and doesn't get too stressed with last minute changes.

If your partner is high maintenance and needs everything confirmed 6 months in advance then staff travel is not for you.

The other option we have is buying confirmed tickets at a discount. Sometimes the discount is fairly considerable but sometimes its only a few pounds. Its always worth checking against the main BA website.

BA just held some roadshows in berlin, however there is no special deal. Just that they can return after two years with BA (if they manage to get in) to Air Berlin if they want to, at their original place in the seniority list (a deal that has been offered with the unmentionable middle east airline and turkish airlines as well). Apart from that they have to jump through the same hoops as anyone else, once the next recruitment window opens. It was mentioned that around 300 pilots are needed this year with around 100 already recruited, 250 to the a320 fleet and the rest to 787 and 747, but the 787 spots are probably already taken.

Difference between BA and Lufthansa is that BA is growing and actively recruiting, whereas Lufthansa is shrinking and probably seeing redundancies in the future, with a backlog of around a thousand cadets that are waiting for their place in a Lufty flightdeck.

Presumably BALPA have nothing to say about the Scope agreement?

So a need of 300. Just curious, how many SFO's have been upgraded? Where did such a massive need come from? Rostering is getting slicker right? Limitations being relaxed etc.

Where did it come from?......B...........M..........I

That's why IAG want Aer Lingus so much.

The African Dude, yes I am very aware of the seniority issue. But I am looking 10 years down the line. I fear we have it as good as it's going to get with Carolyn and the next one through the revolving door won't be as moderate. And my body is already telling me to go part time. Very, very tricky choice.

Thanks to others about staff travel feedback.

I think you're right about that and that's why I advocated jumping with even a SH offer if you're considering making the move. The main question has to be: how much better do you feel your lifestyle will be ten years down the line at BA? If it's significant for your particular circumstances, then you have to bite the bullet and go for it regardless of the fleet offer.

OK, just read your original post again :ok: Agree with you, but a bit worried about paying the mortgage.

Unfortunately I'm getting wildly conflicting stories on take home pay for year 1 SH and LH! Some make it similar, some different by almost 1k.

If the latter if true, Mrs Permafrost won't be pleased!

I have a course offer but am not yet on the payroll. A mate on the 767 (2-3 years service) seems to be netting, on average, a bit over £4k (the lowest was £3.5k ish and the highest £5.5k). It's a 'medium' haul fleet as I understand it. Others on the payroll may be able to clarify but I'm pretty sure I've seen quite a few suggested net figures on this, and other, threads.

All DEPs start on the same pay, longhaul and shorthaul. Every year, the short haul payscales go up by around 2/3 of that on long haul, however you may then go long haul after 5 years and you go straight onto long haul paypoint 5, roughy a £6-7K pay rise. I net about £4500 per month, sometimes more or less, on a short haul roster PP4 albeit I am on the PP24 pay scales. I have pretty much total control over my life as more join below me. Longhaul beckons next year, on blindlines:sad::ouch:, so I may stay on short haul especially as i have small children. Joining as a DEP on long haul, means you stay junior for a very very long time, as those senior to you bid on to your fleet as they move off from short haul.
I also wasn't that far off a LGW command this year! food for thought.

Hi,

Does anyone know if the Multidimensional capacity test when given the audio for the shape / colour needs a trigger input before selection of the colour and number or is it just the colour / number to input?

Thanks

yes, hence food for thought, but gatwick doesn't have bidline?! I haven't decided to go long haul next year (if I have the option)! I can't say how far off Im afraid nor much else on the 2015 bid.

I think it's a brave man who leaves LHR for LGW. For a long time gatwick has had to prove its right to exist.

Year one FO base your SH take home on £3800. About 1/3 of the pilots are on blind lines.

More likely to get something of what you want from Carmen in your initial bid than you are from blindlines! There are some people at LGW who are very happy with their lot. Some on the bottom page even have every weekend off this month...

It's also worth noting that those joining on PP34 scales, will have a comparative pay cap at 22 years instead of 16 for LGW skippers, and PP25 for LHR FO's.