2017 was always going to be a year of little or no recruitment. This was known and talked about on here from at least the middle of 2016. Recruitment was predicted to pickup again in 2018 but again, it has been known for quite some time that there are a fair number of FPP pilots at the front of the queue. It is also known that BA’s training department struggled with the requirement before this lull, and so they were highly likely to try to avoid a similar scenario. So recruitment was always unlikely to be of such a high volume as last time around.

I appreciate it is frustrating waiting for your recruitment date to come along, but I personally think these Gatwick slots are the first real opportunity for DEP holdpool recruitment in well over a year. It will not empty the entire pool for sure, but I predict some of you will be getting a call fairly soon after the plan for the slots is finalised. Determining who is needed, when and where, is a complex task because the PRIAM result just released is likely now largely obsolete, and it will have to be rerun internally before the precise nature of extra recruitment can be determined. That cannot happen until they have established what they are doing with the slots, which is determined by where they can source planes etc.. It took several months to get a result last time around, and I suspect getting their ducks in a row in preparation to run it this time will be even more complex. I would expect several months yet, and the actual document will unlikely be made public this time, other than perhaps approximate seniorities for various positions, and maybe numbers of new pilots required. These extra slots were not even a slight possibility a couple of months back. It is bound to take a little time to determine the best course of action.

Will some of you turn the offer down when it comes? Of course you will, because a lot changes in eighteen months.

As for whitetails; do any of you seriously think they will even be out of flight school in 2018?

If this was the case, why did short haul recruitment open in July 2016??
What changed is that someone had a bright idea to recruit whitetails directly from CTC, in addition to the FPP cadets, as a cost saving exercise.

As I understand it, white tails are being recruited from CTC both after their flying training (IR) phase, and after the groundschool phase. So there will be some available almost immediately, as well as more in the pipeline. With easyJet confident that they have sufficient FOs in place for Summer ‘18, there is no shortage.

I didn’t realise any whitetails were being recruited after flying phase. If that is the case then I guess they will be recruited first, but only if the airbus training department can cope. The strain may be too much for recruitment to be purely via short haul. Time will tell, but my point is this is the biggest potential opportunity for well over a year in my opinion.

Fingers crossed... all we can do is wait a bit longer

Are BA definitely taking white tail cadets straight from finishing CTC and has this been confirmed? Also putting the Gatwick slots to one side, with the PRIAM results am i right in saying that DEP guys/girls had absolutely no chance in 2018?

Last BA update was talking about possible 2019/2020 for this new cadets to be ready so I think in the short term they only have the fpp cadets that are ready to start in the coming months and I heard, possibly on here that the last bunch of them is going to the line fairly soon

There is some slight confusion about white tail cadets.

There are approx 60 FPPs waiting, the first few are on TR courses now.

Mid course interviews for CTC self funded cadets took place earlier this year and approx 40 (so I heard) will be recruited with the last of the FPP cadets.

There is also the new “Cadet scheme” where anyone can come fly for BA, as long as you can find £115k under the sofa - these “cadets” are the ones expected to be ready 2019/2020.

Wet leases...that’s not good news....unless it’s just for a few months for BA to acquire aircraft and recruit us lot! I was wondering with most of us on a 3 months notice period, plus BA induction/sims etc....they were going to have be pretty quick at calling us...ready for summer schedule.

Hi all,

I am a bit of a glass half full kind of a guy so this is my personal take on things.

Cadets, be they FPP or whitetail can go only go onto short haul. They also need about 40 training sectors to get to line check as opposed to about 10 for DEPs. Therefore the ratio of cadets to DEPs has huge effect on the ability of the training department to get pilots onto the line, and consequently how quickly senior A320 FOs can be allowed off short haul and into training for their desired long haul slots.

40 slot pairs may only support 10 short haul aircraft at one end of the spectrum but 40 long haul aircraft at the other. Each long haul aircraft probably requires about 7 Captains and 10 FOs depending on the destinations. BA clearly want to compete with Norwegian so I expect a good percentage of the slots to be long haul ones.

Clearly there are issues such as magicing up aircraft to fill those slots and training the crews in a short period to fill possibly 15 long haul and 6 short haul aircraft. I suspect that a rough figure of 300 pilots will be needed.

All in my opinion. All the best to those in the pool.

I assume you mean 2019 if this coming summer (2018) the plan is to wet lease?

I'm sure it has occurred to the recruitment team at BA that there is a looming requirement for more pilots as a result of the Monarch slots / increased retirements / increased part time / JSS etc. At the same time they will be aware that by allowing the hold pool to expire there will be a costly requirement to re-run the entire selection process. I don't believe that outcome is in BA's interests as they would lose access to the immediate supply of quality people that the hold pool was intended to supply. As others have pointed out, relying entirely on cadets risks being unable to deliver the necessary training programme.

Even if recruitment of DEP's is not imminent, some sort of fudge to allow the current hold poolers access to jobs beyond their existing expiry dates looks likely to me.

BA can’t plan for what remains of Wednesday. I think you underestimate the l evels of ineptitude within middle management in BA. Having served 18years, I will guarantee that at some point it will dawn on them that these new slots require shed loads of drivers; and the flood gates will open again. That coupled with the new rostering system to be introduced in June, which already looks like being a crock of sh1t3, will lead a drive for more pilots.

I would suggest that any experienced pilot applying for a BA job in the future not bother until BA have signed and delivered to you a note that promises your employment ahead of any cadet. Otherwise you're wasting your time, effort and money on what is essentially a recruitment methodology that is as worse as RYRs (remember the outrage when they charged €250? well attending BA assessment days can cost some people £2,000 a pop if they're travelling from the Sandpit or Far East over 2 or 3 separate days).

Wet leases may be an option being considered for the short term, but I do not believe for one moment that a final decision has actually been made yet. BA just do not work that fast.

You've brightened my evening. :)

Must admit that post made me giggle as well... many a true word, or perhaps “if Carlsberg did posts describing the workings of BA”.....

Perhaps I should explain to our onlookers that IMHO a lot of this confusion as to what day of the week it is /which plan are we on today is of course not helped the increasing use of yammer as an official comms tool...

A very sensible piece of advice. I still maintain that if I were in the hold pool and "expired" I'd want my expenses to be reimbursed.

I understand the sentiment but you are wildly optimistic.

This is the airline that has been trying very hard to terminate it’s policy of reimbursing employes for expenses incurred if they use an AME external to BA for their Class 1’s and it is also the operator which (unlike some others) won’t fork out to provide any form of respiratory protection for employees currently slipping in DEL.

Good luck claiming for expenses as a non employee.

Oh yes I know there is zero chance of that happening but it certainly would be th decent thing to do. As someone alluded too earlier it costs a small fortune for some candidates

I would find wet-leases probably using aircraft from a pariah state of the Middle East particularly galling knowing that a long established UK airline was put out of business partly because senior IAG management wanted them gone.

Average-p

Yes it would, but sadly you (and others) now have another insight into the “BA way”.

I’d be interested if any other airlines have been known to reimburse expenses in similar circumstances.

I don’t have the emails to hand (given that I went through selection a while ago, and lots happened since then), but I remember it stating explicitly that BA wouldn’t reimburse any costs incurred by candidates attending waterside.

My most recent interview where expenses were reimbursed was in 1990.

Since then, off the top of my head, Ive had at least 13 job interviews, and no-one - in any industry - has offered to pay for expenses. (The only exception was airlines in the sandpit, who provided an air ticket and hotac for the interview).

It's not just BA that won't pay, it's the modern world.

Agreed. Especially as it looks like the whole thing was a “you scratch my back...” deal between BA, CAA and XXX airlines.

Anyone else read the update email...Anyone had a phone call yet? Airbus...LHR...LGW.....other fleet?

Could be short notice for ‘quality’ wet-leased available aircraft/crews - especially given ACMI recruitment and its short-term contract nature!

Would BA use Latvian/Lithuanian registered aircraft?!?

Why should they not?

Heard through a mate near the top of the pool- 4 x B747 offers gone out today. Whoopee

Got the update email as well, limited number of offers to be made for starting date in march 2018. That's at least something positive! From no DEP in 2018, to a limited number. I do however wonder if its just for type rated guys and gals seeing as the update mentioned, 'for those eligble'.

'For those eligible' - maybe read 'eligible for ZFT' for DEP Long Haul? Not too many rated 744 bods in the pool I would have thought.

Best of luck!

4 more 'more junior' bidders on the 744 than me, lovely! JSS implementation excepted....

I expect BA to be fully surprised by the no’s to their 747 offers tomo :}

I think it’s safe to say that everyone in the DEP holdpool will be able to complete a ZFT course; roughly speaking most of us probably have somewhere between 1000-1500 additional hours since we entered the pool. Those that entered via the shorthaul route without the Longhaul 2000 hour requirement probably all have it now.

I do wonder how many of those that that entered via the long haul route who are now Captains, are keen to drop 30-40% pay to sit at the bottom of BA seniority list- behind the recent FPP/white tail cadets.

Last time I checked, BA dropped their requirement to 1,500 hours and an unfrozen ATPL for DEP long haul..

I know plenty of people who have left their command to join BA. The calculation involved is, of course, a very personal one. Increasingly though Captains at easyJet and Ryanair are in their mid to late 20's/early 30's. That still gives you a 30+ year career at BA and even a pessimist would acknowledge that some of that is likely to be as a long haul P1.

I acknowledge it is a more balanced decision with the birth of 34 pay points and the expansion of the seniority list. However it's a long term decision and for most people will be about lifestyle as much as money.

Best of luck to those waiting for the call!

You'll get to know Riyadh pretty well which is always a plus.

Out of interest - for these lucky few who have been offered jobs on the 747, how long is it likely to be before they begin to see any reasonable degree of control over their roster?

Anyone going into BA with their eyes open would presumably be expecting to receive the dregs of the flying for a good few years - most of which I assume would also be distributed solely over their weekends. But as their senior SH colleagues also move fleet and slide in above them, seniority for the newbies surely stagnates for quite some time?

Anyone joining on the 747 should be aware that not only will they be the most junior pilots on it (hence the Riyadh comments) but they’ll be held back on it until the fleet dies (which may or may not be advantageous - ask some 767 guys for their opinion on that). Roster control is a moot point with only four more months of bidline. After that we’re all on blind lines.

Rex...good point.....Some people here probably did their cost v benefit analysis of moving to BA so long ago that that statement is worth repeating 100 times, with emphasis, for the benefit of those about to make a decision......( I’m sure that wouldn’t change anybody’s mind but it is a health warning: please don’t come back onto here or the BALPA forum in six months time and say Bidline isn’t as wonderful as promised).

The latest state of play is that the first training “videos”/ training packages were released to the rank and file a few days ago and the grumbles about JSS have started again...I suspect some junior folk are going to be seeing a heck of a lot of one or two ME destinations and perhaps central Africa, and not much else, despite the promises.

It does indeed look increasingly like Blindlines for all with a release date that was later than promised (i.e. overall less notice of monthly rosters than is currently the case for most of us)......

There’s no way JSS will be ready for June, so it’ll probably be left until October/November, subject to the email saying they’d leave it for summer if there were still teething issues.

The two most junior 747 FOs have both spent December going across the Atlantic. Denver, Phoenix, Miami, Vegas and Boston. There will be trips to sunny Lagos and the odd detox in the ME. Weekends will be a premium and you won’t get roster control for a long time. You will also develop a mistrust of half-moon glasses and long sleeves, but I believe that to be airline wide.

However, with EASA now the and commuters who want to ‘back to back’ there will always be a demand for the ME and Africa. Let’s try and keep it a little balanced.

Good grief, haven't seen either of those in years....is it a 744 or Airbus thing?

As for the shape of current rosters, well whatever shape they are now is a bit irrelevant come June or later.....given the way bidding is going to change it will be interesting to see if the likes of Phoenix, Denver and Vegas get hoovered up by senior preferences come the advent of JSS, rather than dropping through to Blindlines (?seeded??).....we will see...