Becoming a pilot & Aviation Industry in 2014 - a disgrace?
 

Now I know there will be lot of you here ready to slaughter me and my character regarding what I have to say about the aviation industry and it's state today.

Many here get complete frenzy if something negative is said about the industry, and that I should shut up or put up. Which is in many ways the one of the main reasons aviation is like it is today, to many people just put up with the current degrading of T & C's and working conditions in this industry.

To many people delude themselves believing the industry somehow will improve, get some more and there will be companies lined up to give you a better job, with betters TC's. However by the time your reach that experience level, these companies due to competition from the lower end of airlines, have put pressure so they also have now worsen their work TC's.

After new EASA flight time regulations which is about to be approved, the companies are gaining a momentum to take more control over peoples lives, and making people a slave of their machine. As an individual you are not considered to deserve to have a life outside the air-plane according to many airlines.

Due to your "love" for aviation, they brainwash people to become complete loyalist to their doctrines, as the choice is of course yours, but how can you accept to stand up against this BS after spending 100.000 Euros or more on your training.

Let's start with the first thing, the "dream" - and these are questions you should ask yourself, is this your dream? Really?

To know this you need to know the facts, realize what these facts does mean, and think if this is what you are willing to do to make a pay slightly more than somebody who works at McDonalds!

The job is good if you like sitting doing nothing for around 80% of your time, so it is great job if your brain activity does not mind being in a very inactive environment.
(Now this doesn't mean that you are not smart, and good at your job, of course if disaster happens you have to be alert and well trained to cope with this situation - however with the reliability of these modern aircraft today, you will most likely only get to do this twice a year, when you doing your sim training / checks.)

So it's a great job to have, if you like doing nothing for hours and hours, except stare out of the windows and admire the view, however after a while that also gets pretty familiar.

You will have little or no real job protection - you will be used as the airline pleases, with no consideration given to your own private life. (I mean how do you expect we ("the airline) can have time and manpower to consider individuals personal needs - that will cost the company money, which they are not willing to spend.

If they feel they do not need you, they will easily fire you or put you on Unpaid leave.

Little or No sickpay, so actively encouraging people to push themselves to work even if you should be grounded. (Yes I have seen that - I even had a Captain fully knowing he was sick, did not tell me, started the flight, only to tell me midway that he might need to report of duty sick on arrival, because he was not feeling well)

Another issue with this, reporting sick, is almost a taboo for many pilots, as they have this attitude to that they must serve the company regardless of their health condition or if they are fatigue. I have seen and experienced so many times crews being tired, and in my opinion should have reported unfit for duty, but this rarely ever happens.
It is a mentality which is very unhealthy. I also heard of crews being out all night in clubs etc., reporting for duty in morning or later in the day. (not accusing anybody of drinking, but lacking sever rest and still reporting for duty as normal)
Now for me this is very unprofessional and it is playing with peoples lives.

But these things will happen, when people are treated with very little or no respect.

No Pensions, of course if you are 21 - 22, you might not care about this, but you should, but no social contribution by the company, many companies today look for ways to avoid social responsibility, like removing sick pay and pensions - and if they do pay some of this, it will be the basic, where you would probably get more working in a supermarket Tescos.

Now I am in an exceptional situation, as in 1 month at home in November / December I made close to £40K with my own business. And it makes me question my own sanity over this, do I need some inexperienced planner telling me that for the next 3 - 4 weeks I will not be able to see my family because the company owns me?

So most jobs are now on contracts as falsely self-employed, for the company to avoid social responsibility and to avoid to pay proper taxes and other expenses involved with having people working for you.
Thousands of pilots are evading taxes, either of their own lack of knowledge and a combination of the airlines using every trick in the book to keep their expenses down.
However these tricks will soon be turned out to be illegal, in time, and let's hope it will not be the pilots who have to pay for this tax evasion - where they have also been mislead by agencies and airlines.

Now there is a general acceptance in the industry by to many pilots, that these conditions are no more then what they deserve, and they might moan and complain, but they have so much fear of loosing their "dream job" that they shut up.

The problem also lies in the recruitment strategies, there are THOUSANDS of people willing to spend a fortune to work for PEANUTS!
The Airlines use this actively, to make sure everybody sits in their place nicely and shuts up and does not act to try to improve.

Now this is a disease in the industry, spreading like cancer, maybe it has always been like this, but I doubt so.
The lifestyle and life-quality being a pilot has seriously decreased, most of us have a love for flying, and that is the trap used.
Fact is that even today with experience, the chances of moving up the ladder are fairly few and far in-between.

Being a pilot used to be a prestigious and well respected profession, however it is unfortunately today changing into a job that you are more and more ashamed to talk about with regards to life-quality and conditions.

Now changes needs to be made, and EASA approving TT of 1000 hours per year is a major step backwards. In most professions it should be going the other way, with less hours to increase quality of life.

But of course now with this big EU family, where 3.rd world countries are now members too, competing for the same jobs, the companies are getting more and more happy by increasing their profits and paying less, giving less.

Things need to change, before the rot will start bringing the whole industry into the mud. Changes are needed, and they must come in form of improved company legislation.
The first step would be to make it illegal for pilots to report as self-employed, because what they simply do today, is just avoid paying taxes, which benefits nobody - well except the company that employs them.

The company saves a fortune, and people except it because does not seem to bad pay if not paying any taxes or social contributions of it.

Accept scientific research for Flight Time Regulations, and accept that this legislation that is now about to be approved is not acceptable. This is not in the interest of the passengers or the crews, but it does increase the airlines profit margins, more for less philosophy.

Put a stop to P2F and Cadet programs - require minimum 1500 hours or more to fly for an airline. Why? some may ask. This is one of the main factors with the industry, as Ryanair started this, making pilots pay for their own training etc. It created a base of available pilots that is ENDLESS!

Airlines are with this in Paradise - in 3 - 4 months they can train a monkey and pay him peanuts! And there is an endless source of pilots available.
Now you might ask what about all the newbies, don't they also deserve a chance?

Of course they do, but unless they are on a program similar to BA etc., they should build up their experience over time, when reaching the hours they will have gained invaluable experience and be ready for airlines - this will be their recruitment procedure, and there will be jobs created on every level - as it would mean all the guys today with thousands of hours on MEP and SEP instructing etc., would have priority when employed, ahead of the hoards of people who exist with Low hours.

It will after a while settle in to a natural stream - and it would enhance safety with the airlines, as these would be pilots with actual experience of hands on flying over a period of time.
Also there would be a natural selection process that would get rid of the wannabes who are merely time-wasters, who should not be looking at this career, but doing it for the wrong reasons and the chance to get into a big shiny yet with 250 hours on SEP.

This is not a perfect system either, but it would for sure help the pilots TC's to become more stable and stronger over time.
However the business interest in airlines would not be happy for such legislation, as it would mean that they no longer would have an infinite amount of pilots at their disposal - it would only be those who had a certain amount of hours Total time.

If it means spending a couple of more years flying around in a SEP /MEP or some smaller turbo-prop etc., the long term benefits for the whole profession would improve, and everybody entering into it would face a much better and brighter future.

But the problem is todays Fast - Food generation, they want everything instantly and they do not want to work their way up, and that is the reason the treatment like monkeys befall them.

If organizations like ECA could manage to organize the unions around in EASA to take action, based on safety - these kind of improvements could maybe be achieved. But a part of the problem, are the pilots themselves, they lack unity and many lack self-respect, which is not entirely their own fault, it is the airlines who have indoctrinated this fear culture, which is epidemic, don't talk, don't think, just go with the flow, be lucky we let you fly this aircraft of ours!

Do you feel lucky today?

(remember your enemies that want you to not have good conditions are the airlines, the FTO's, TRTO's - as this will not serve their best interest, however a change of regulations is needed, if not this profession is becoming a joke - lack of respect for your work - stop it now! - or if you don't mind just let it Carry On! :D )

I guess the general final conclusion of this message is:
Lower your expectations to the industry!

You're not going to solve it by regulation.

If this is what you are doing, then you are not doing the job.
If this is what you are doing, then you are not doing the job.
Why is BA's cadet programme any different from those of other airlines that use the same or similar resources? Those quality airlines with cadet programmes usually utilize the same training resources. Selection is made at an early stage thereby avoiding what you describe as "training monkeys."

The safety statistics in both absolute and relative terms have never been as good as they are these days. The airlines do have pilots with experience, they are sat in the left seat. Those in the right seat are often building up that experience.....just like you?

There are good jobs and good employers. The competition for those jobs is, has been, and likely always will be, fierce. The less desirable employers are often utilized as stepping stones to better things. That has always been the case as well.

There are those that listen, and those that don't. Plenty of people have been describing the hard and soft realities of the evolution of the marketplace for many years. I am sure that plenty of people absorb that advice and use it or discard it as a small part of their own planning strategy. A few will simply rail against everything that doesn't fit in with their own mental model of the training regime and the industrial and employment realities. Once they discover those models are made of ice cream, they blame all and sundry for the puddle of cream they then find themselves sitting in.

Survival is usually about the ability to adapt to the environment you find yourself in, rather than demanding that the environment should adapt itself to you. Legend has it that King Canute discovered this fundamental point almost a thousand years ago.

The most efficient form of adaptation might be diversification. That means - find something else to do, if you can. It also means forewarning the naiive and the dreamers, which the OPs post helps to do. I also make that my crusade.
Flying is a game for idiots and losers with no other options. Only those who are already too old to adapt have any excuse for staying.

Yes, if you find something else better it might well be the smartest thing to do. Forewarning "the naive and dreamers" is little different from offering sound advice to those who are neither. As for the OP's post, you might want to research their history and revisit that comment.
No it isn't. For some it is a well planned and researched career with good rewards. I say that because I fly (and have done for nearly two decades) with so many of them. Not one of them is either an idiot or a loser. In fact quite the opposite.
That rather assumes that they need an excuse? If I align myself to that demographic I still adapt all of the time. The time to retire is when that becomes too difficult, or when you reach the regulatory number.

Whilst I agree with some of your points the main problem facing young pilots today is the traditional pipeline has disappeared. You also need to make a distinction between cadet programs where pilots are chosen before any training is undertaken and the company makes a substantial contribution, and "cadets" who pay for a TR.

Reality is in the UK, when you leave flight school you have a bare minimum of experience. But there are no magical entry level jobs sitting there. Instruction, at my local club with the exception of one all instructors are airline pilots who do it as a hobby (I agree with this as they have more experience to give). Cargo or charter? Jobs are very few and very far between.

The majority of people leaving flight schools at the moment and getting jobs aren't always the people who are the best pilots, they are just the people who can afford to pay £25,000 for a TR. That's the hard truth and the reality of what's been created. To say pilots need 1500 hours in the UK would destroy this "pipeline" completely but it wouldn't solve any problems.

Maybe if you're a helicopter pilot. On the other hand, maybe you're using your brain to study a magazine or newspaper during cruise. Seriously? I think truckflyer's post was pretty well descriptive of the current state of the career. Especially this part.

Ah, this ground has been raked over so many times, it almost seems pointless to do it again. We'll have the same old arguments - Pros and Cons. Nothing in life is perfect, but I've been in this business for 35 years and actually had a good career (started as a cadet in a national carrier in europe) and I can say with 100% certainty that it isn't the job it was 30 years ago, and it is turning to :mad: faster year by year.
Beelezebub, you seem to be happy. Good for you. Some are lucky and find a certain niche that suits them. You should realise you are one of the few. The vast majority of the pilots I meet are unhappy - either with their pay and conditions, or with the fact that they've lived their lives moving around like gypsies, with a home-life being a vague aspiration they never manage to attain. Most of these folk carry on because they don't know what else to do.
As to my 'losers and idiots' characterisation - I stand over it 100%. It's a boring and repetitive job. It requires NO imagination or invention. No entrepreneurial skill. Little social interaction. The perfect pilot nowadays is a cookie cutter pilot. One who can absolutely and consistently do the very same thing again and again in exactly the same manner. The less variation or divergence from the rote the better. The perfect pilot moves his hands in the same pattern every day. He says the same words - with minor (mandated) variations, every day. He switches the same switches in the same order, he punches in the same data, in the same rote way.
Microscopic obsessiveness with inane detail is a virtue. Rigidity is a badge of honour. The perfect pilot will happily spend his own days off researching the manuals and doing company exams on the company 'training' portal - and getting paid nothing for it.
The perfect pilot doesn't mind if its 3AM on Christmas morning and he's ferrying a pallet of rubber :mad: out of Hong Kong (in the immortal words) - no, this is his dream job, and he can be just as damned good at it at 3AM on Xmas Day as any other day of the year.
Is that you?
Is that not IDIOTIC???
Is that something to aspire to??

That is because the traditional licencing structure also disappeared. Pre-J.A.R (in the UK) the basic unstructured CPL was a 700 hour licence. Civilian pilots traditionally travelled this part of the pipeline via general aviation opportunities. Remunerated flight instruction could be carried out at the circa 150 hour level with nothing more than PPL and a basic instructional rating. J.A.R modified the licencing regime to bring the UK (and other countries) into line with most other ICAO signatory states, whereby the CPL was the vehicle for basic instruction and other GA level job opportunities. In recognition of that reality the experience levels were reduced to the 250 hour level, again in line with most other ICAO states. There had been a previous "approved course" distinction for a few specified full time courses of regulated training whereby the CPL hour requirement was circa 200 hours. Only a few FTO's were approved to conduct these courses. Post J.A.R these "approved courses" evolved in to the integrated courses offered by the same schools or their successors, as well as a few newcomers to the market.

The evolution broadly resulted in a co-incidence of the licencing changes together with the rapid expansion of new lo-cost airline entrants to the general market. Unfortunately many ordinary CPL aspirants believed that the licence changes meant "we are all ripe candidates for airline jobs now" when in fact that wasn't really the case at all. That confusion was exacerbated by one or two Lo-Co CEO's who publicly promoted the idea of single pilot flight decks. Unable to run with that idea, they then promoted the idea of taking the lowest licence requirements and offering the opportunity to anybody who wanted to pay a £50 fee and take their chances. The success of the lo-co's not only resulted in a rapid expansion of that sector, but forced established and legacy carriers to adopt many of the low cost strategies in one form or another in order to survive. Many of them didn't survive.

Many of these legacy and established airlines, and indeed some of the new market entrant lo-co's, went to the other side of the "pipeline" and looked again at the "approved schools." These were now the principle integrated fATPL course providers. They could offer ab-initio airline trained cadets directly into the airlines "cadet programmes." The airlines liked the product and the economics and this sector started to rapidly expand.

Then came the recession and global "credit crunch." This suppressed and masked the expansion, but it didn't suppress the infrastructure and investment for future growth that these providers were intending to provide.
The result being that first tier airlines emerging from recession now sourced an increasing percentage of their F/O requirement through these tied and integrated programmes. This suppressed a good deal of the historic movement from the "stepping stone" jobs, and from the ex-military career changers.

At about the same time all of this was happening, general statutory changes were also occurring in many developed countries, that resulted in increased retirement ages, sometimes by as much as 10 years as it applied to this specific industry. This took the pressure off the left seat demand and allowed many airlines a significant breathing space in their right seat recruitment plans, (where indeed there was any expansion taking place at all.) From inside it wasn't difficult to see the evolution taking place. If anybody could be bothered to look behind the "pardon our dust" hoardings of the big three FTO's, it wasn't difficult to see where the opportunities were likely to stem from either. A few people (including myself) have been banging on about this for many years now for anybody that might be interested. Some were, and some weren't, and some simply stuck their fingers in their ears and refused to believe anything other what they wanted or needed to believe. I am more than happy for anybody to go back through my own posting history to verify the point.

Yes. But there is "flight school" and there is "flight school" and the selection and methodology (for all the reasons mentioned above) will often dictate where those "magical entry level" jobs are. Usually they are the right seat of an A320 or 737 type variant. Outside of these programmes it is a very cold world with very few vacancies. As the OP's post highlights yet again, the T&C's on offer make these few vacancies "stepping stones" in themselves, often in locations very far from home. Indeed even as "stepping stones" the further harsh reality is that the aspired to companies with the better T&C's are often satisfying their own right seat requirements through their own established cadet programmes. Far too many people delude themselves that these "stepping stone" pumpkins, will transform themselves into Cinderella's carriage, once they have jumped on board. They don't!

Do you own or operate a flight school?

No I don't. Do you?

I have been doing this as long as you have from the days of the 707. For the better part of the last two decades as a captain flying with many cadets who themselves have gone on into senior positions within the same (and other) companies.

I don't obsess over other posters - but your posting history is heavily (shall I say) 'training oriented' - and your comments there about cadets further reinforce my feeling that you have something to gain by pushing a Happy Clappy agenda.

Do I own a flight school? Does it sound like I do - I'd be cutting my own throat by speaking the truth, wouldn't I!

If I ever teach anyone to fly, it'll be in a Tiger Moth. For fun.
Not ever for employment.

Sport Flying is fun.

Career Aviation is for numbskulls.

It is a subject I believe I have significant knowledge of. As such, the comment is intended to be useful to those seeking an accurate picture or one that provides some balance. Obviously on forums such as these that is anything but a prerequisite or necessity, but that is my choice. There are good career routes out there, but they are few compared to the many thousands of hopeful aspirants (whatever their sub-group) who would seek them out. Again, that is not only the case now, but always has been and likely always will be.

"Sport flying" and the comments you make, are all well and good for you, but of course the people coming to these forums (this thread was originally posted in the Wanabees forum,) are usually interested in career flying.

I don't believe it is for numbskulls, nor do I believe that description applies to myself or those I work with. If you think it applies to you, then who am I to argue the point.

Numbskull or not they do have families to take care of

If you're bored with the job simply get a degree on the side. There is more than enough time to do that on your days off, on standby days etc. And the salary easily covers the best university tuition anyway and leaves more than enough to enjoy life. At least with good airlines, which can afford to be very picky with their applicants.

So to summarise Beelzebub - there are a very limited number of good jobs, and thousands of hopefuls destined to have their illusions shattered.
So we agree!
But you haven't addressed the boring repetitive thing. If you indeed flew 707's you'll remember a time when pilots knew things like - how to fly the aeroplane! Themselves! Without the aid or interference of a computer!
And even a time when the Ops Manual was a compact document - rather than a biblical tome.

Are you saying only people with families to take care of would become pilots?
Interesting angle!
I suggest this - if you are intelligent, choose a career where you can support your family AND enjoy your occupation. One with mental challenges and diverse activities. One where you aren't locked in a box at 3AM on Xmas morning.
But - if you are a numbskull incapable of doing anything else - flying may be for you!

Well said trukflyer.
I would say though it's not a flashnew neither...

There are many points.
First, we can udnerstand it's a "dream" career. Kids always wanted to be a fireman, policeman, or pilot, astronaut etc.
Pilot is one of the job, where between the imagination and reality, there is a big big step actually, ESPECIALLY nowadays.
It's a job where you have no clue how is it until you get there. That's the problem too.
Even from a FTO/TRTO to an airline, there is a big stone step.

I have been flying on jet and quit the industry. No regrets.
As I said in another thread, it depends MAINLY on the LIFESTYLE you want.
As truckflyer said, if you want to live like gipsies or bohemians with no futur plan, then it's a nice career.

The LCC understood well how to manage the business:

in 2014, they prefer hiring youngs indebted pilots so they can not complain.
At this age and with a low experience they have no weight for fighting.

They use them as a kleenex and once used, they will upgrade some of them as docile captains and throw the surplus F/o who became older and more mature (so they could complain now).
Then they replace the F/O rejected by others youngs docile fresh meat.
It's very simple with self-emplyed pilot.

Let's say there where I work the pilots salary is much more than anyone else's and still much lesser than in some places.
Your post bout numbskulls is still wrong.
Pilots career for a real possessed people I'd rather say

Oh yes. However the advice and comment is the same irrespective.
I hadn't addressed it because it seemed rhetorical, but if you want an answer. Twenty odd thousand hours of doing anything is always going to have a "boring and repetitive" element to it. However it is a "state of mind" that has the potential to come back and bite you. I often walk from the car park to work and remind myself that every major accident started on a day just like this one, with a crew that didn't for one second believe that day was going to be anything other than "routine," or if you prefer "boring and repetitive." That level of complacency is a natural by-product of experience, and in itself requires self awareness and managing. An inexperienced F/O who professes to feel this way on a regular basis is either something unusually special or simply not staying ahead of the game. The OP was making these claims on his initial training flights.

In my experience cadets fly the airplane very well. Obviously, (as with anybody) it is a learning curve, and initially a very steep one. As for the "aid or interference of a computer" I am afraid that is part of the modern toolkit. Automation is an ingrained part of their training doctrine because it is now such an ingrained part of the operating architecture. The transition from older first and second generation jet transports to "glass cockpit," was probably more traumatic than that faced by new entrant cadets today who are trained into these philosophies from onset. I remember in the seventies and eighties the term "automation complacency" was a regular feature in so many aircraft accidents and incidents, and in those days it often related to something as relatively basic as autopilot or auto throttle. The vox pop term "children of the magenta line" so often attributed to new pilots, is enshrined in an address by a senior American Airlines training captain to an audience also partly comprising senior American Airlines captains. It is something that we all (to a greater or lesser degree) are. Once again, it is a complacency that requires self awareness and needs guarding against.

The Op's manual is a "biblical tome" these days, because the technology is far more developed and intricate. In addition the operating philosophies have matured in not only the hard technical aspects, but as importantly in the non-technical aspects. Again in the sixties, seventies and eighties the frequency with which airliners were flown into hillsides did nothing to advocate the op's manual being a "compact tome." For any pilot, but particularly for a low experienced pilot, there are plenty of things they can be doing to stay well ahead of the game. Those that fail to stay "ahead of the game" are often the ones highlighting their "boredom." It is a vocation, but there is no getting away from the fact that it is also a job, and one that does require a constant maintenance of performance and contingency planning. Routine is a part of that job, but (and particularly) in short haul flying, it raises a red flag when an inexperienced pilot claims they are "sitting around doing nothing 80% of the time."

Long answer, but there you go.

I don't think anyone would argue that airline flying is a very different career to 20+ years ago, and the T&Cs for new entrants reflect that.

The fact remains that people are still queuing up to do it, but I suspect that fewer will do it for a 40 year career whereas at one point, it was only enforced retirement or loss of medical that got them out!

Now that's the aviation today. Airplanes are getting more automated, making our (pilots) life lot easier, but those who spend their 80% of flight time doing nothing not only would get their payment for nothing they'd be a real threat for aviation. Can you imagine the traffic nowadays. You've got to be aware of situation all the time. Just like an anecdote "wife asking-what's it like to be a pilot, what do you do? He's answering" You make a coffee, right?you put the pot on the fire and watch until it boils,now imagine I'm putting 8pots on the fire and keep watching them for the next 8hours:)

I am closer to the end of my aviation career than the beginning of it and have enjoyed the greater part of my career. However, I would do everything in my power to discourage any young person from entering the industry nowadays - unless via a cadetship with a flag carrier - and even then with caution.
It is not the job it once was. Unfortunately, by the time the new joiner realises this they are trapped into expensive bonds, p2f agreements etc and are invariably too old to start again in another career.
I'm not at all bitter and still enjoy my role in today's aviation industry but I would not like to be starting out in it today.

Different generations different opinions about aviation today, and what p2f really is. We don't practice that

Yet.

Lets all move to Uzbekistan!
Why not? Sounds just wunnerful.

Keep dreaming

As with any profession people have to do their research and make informed decisions. Aviation today is at best a gamble, except that and live with the decisions after placing your bets. Yes, the rules of the game in this industry are unique, but we don't make the rules and for sure they won't change, too much hot air and nonsense talked about legislation, Christ it takes 20 yrs to decide where to build a new runway let alone deal with the nitty gritty of employment conditions etcetera.

I think too much is made of the fact that you have to spend ex amounts of thousands to get qualified and land a job. Flying has never been a poor mans career choice, you have always (apart from the ones who have gone via the military route or have been fully sponsored in the decades gone by) needed access to money to get there.

It is a vocational career which getting a job requires a great deal of dedication and hard work, to constantly think of negatives about the job shows you have made the wrong choice by getting in. If you go on the forum of more or less every profession you will get the same sort of complaints that the job has gone down hill, its not just aviation its in all forms of work. But unfortunately that isn't going to change its really just the way things have gone.

Also bear in mind what some people have to do for a living, working in a warehouse, stocking shelves, cleaning toilets, then maybe you will realise that everyone who can fly for a living is fortunate, yes it is a job at the end of the day but it is a greater job than most have.

I basically agree with the initial post.

A great part of the job is doing either nothing or something you have done a zillion times before.

Most of the guys who deny that do get it mixed up imho, I am not saying it is an easy job, far from it. But we have to face the fact that the most challenging days are those either in the sim or during line checks, and the odd bad weather day. Rest is repetitive routine.

Additionally,most of the " intellectual " challenges we face is de facto learning by heart some idiotic numbers, totally fabricated useless nerd-bs by the usual aerosexuals every company has in their training departments.

All that interupted by the same small-talk, same gossip, same mediocre hotels, same same same..
That is flying today.

So now it's an alternative to shelf stacking? Yes, count your blessings!

I think a lot of people cling to the illusion because it defines them.
They'd be nothing if they didn't have that 'Big Job at The Airport' and the Gold Stripes to swagger around with (even while being played for fools by their bosses). Aerosexuals indeed. There's a lot of childish insecurity and self regard in this profession, yet another reason why it is in terminal decline.

In some places shelf stackers are paid more than Bae146 pilots. What's so 'great' about that?

Ryanair DIDNT start pay to fly.

It was happening before Ryanair I should know I paid half my turbo prop rating for a now defunct Brit airline in the mid 90s......

For those round long enough before Ryanair there has always been an endless supply of wannabee pilots wanting that prized job who would do it for next to nothing.

I was one of them back then. Luckily for me I always got paid to fly an airplane and still am getting paid.

Lets not kid ourselves Ryanair changed anything in that respect.

All Ryanair did was saw an opportunity in the type rating market and took it. Just wish I had thought of it first............

The trend is still worsening terms. The only thing that will change this is terms becoming bad enough that even the dreamers realize that it's not worth it. Then a shortage will ensue and terms will have to come back up again until balance between supply and demand is restored. It's already begun, by people who are realists and can do math. Next up will be the nerds who think flying is a lifestyle. After that the rich kids who realize that even with dad paying everything, what's the point when you'll be working 15hr shifts with minimum rest and sleeping in airport hotels. Chronically fatigued and with a friend-count ticking down fast. Just try flying with some 60-year old captain on his ninth company and fourth wife, still flying to pay child support and scrape together some kind of pension. If you ever need a wake-up call, that'll do nicely.

Personally I'm working to get out and I have what most would call a pretty great job. Good pay, a pension, everything paid for and no commuting. But why are these things considered special? Things that are considered normal in other qualified jobs are somehow "perks" in aviation. It took me six years from setting foot at school to putting on my two airline stripes. It took me two more to lose all interest in the job. Upgrading to captain later helped some, but not for long. If you have any intellectual capacity this job will sandpaper your brain into a dull, one-trick pony machine if you let it.

I've met plenty of seriously sharp people who could do far better for themselves in other sectors or in their own business. Before I started flying I used to labor under the illusion that airline captains are exceptional beings. Upholders of impeccable standards. I've since found plenty who are mediocre, self-serving and small-minded. Eager to sell their dignity and stab their colleagues in the back for personal gains. Foul-mouthed, outspoken racists and chauvinists with the most shallow understanding of regulations, systems and operations. Mr VNAV/LNAV reading his golfing magazine and bitching about immigrants stealing all the women or explaining which cabin crew he would like to do what with.

No sir, not impressed. I have one life to live and I'll be damned if I spend it staring out the window of an airplane for a company trying to turn me into a contracting serf without rights.

Plenty would be willing to replace me for half the money. Plenty more would replace them for half again. Like I said, rock bottom has still not been reached, we are still free falling. Wait for the thud before there's any hope of improvement.

Sounds like the words of a Long Haul pilot. Yawn. I appreciate your other points.

Some ex pilots that quit or that is going to,whats the need to show your enmity. Show some respect to an aviation. You should only blame some people that's making it look the way it is

Say wha?
Are you really an airline pilot? With that level of English? I think you're pulling our legs!

Well put Sir. Hit the nail square on the head.

Contrary to john i am someone who actually started the whole thing for love of flying. And guess what, the flying part of my job i still love. However, i can keep it that way mainly because i reduced my flying hours to around 300 to 400 a year while still earning a six figure salary as an FO (nearly three times the average income in my country). Yes, there is a lot of routine during our normal job, but that is the way with most jobs. I worked at one of the worldwide top biophysical chemistry institutes before as an IT professional and although it cannot get much interesting and diverse than that there was an equal amount of routine in that job, for quite a lot less income and less free time than i do enjoy now.

Yes, i did the whole thing, starting with model airplanes around six years, glider flying at 14 (minimum legal age over here) and then going on to engined flight and finally professional flying. However it is not a bad advise to get an university degree first and some professional experience before starting into the flying world. And of course not just getting a license either. My advise is always to start some program like lufthansa, swiss, BA future pilot and so on and if that doesn't work out do something else and fly for fun. Which usually keeps a lot more fun in flying.

As for worsening T&Cs, i guess that depends on the pilot group in question. I cannot complain at all, since the pilots in my company stood united we could actually increase our T&Cs considerably. Dunno how long it's gonna last of course, if the unmentionable airline from abu dhabi decides to no longer pump money our way all bets are off, but so far there are no signs of that.

Well I'm glad to see we've moved up the food chain a little, from shelf stackers to Doctors and Lawyers.

(oh) Dear John
 

what?!!

Is this some sort of infommercial from CTC??

This is exactly the claptrap that tempts people to ditch a real job and hock themselves up to the eyeballs in order to live the dream! FWIW I've been in aviation nearly 30yrs, have been in the LHS 18yrs and flying B737s in the UK for 14yrs and have never, ever earned a six figure salary or anywhere near.

I'm not alone either, check out Jet2, Flybe, FR, Cityflyer, Loganair etc etc and you'll find plenty of captains with many years experience earning reasonable, but not great money and certainly not a "six figure sum", many struggling to support a family and having to pay for childcare in order to mitigate the shift patterns and allow a second income from the spouse to help pay the mortgage!

Enjoy your good fortune John, but don't labour under the illusion that everybody in aviation is doing as well as you are and don't lead the uninitiated into temptation.

Well I agree wholeheartedly with those bits John, but the "easy (pardon the pun) way of earning a lot of money" bit just perpetuates the myth!

I fly with a fair few 20 somethings who have gone from 200hrs to total disillusionment in about 18 months and I feel that they should be made aware before they start, by those in the industry that for many people, it isn't easy, and there ain't much money in it either.