With Ballsout on this one! 3 years flying TP's with Loganair! Best flying I've done yet! Thought I'd sold my soul when I went to "managing" jets.

Yeah agree, despite wanting to move on, I love flying the TP. It's good fun. If the package made it possible to have a life then it would be the perfect flying job!

I Love flying. There is a lot more opportunity to fly on a turbo prop, than be stuck managing a jet. Those that go straight on to jets, considered by some to be lucky, really have missed out on a fantastic opportunity to do some real flying, in strong cross winds, into short runways, with non precision approaches, and limited ATC services outside controlled airspace, daily practise raw data hand flying skills, in icing conditions, during high frequency short sectors with quick turnarounds, most of which is frowned upon in jet companies. The experience and skills gained will stick with a pilot for theyre entire career and make them a better pilot. Yet big jet companies to answer questions about lack of experience, say training needs to be looked at, I say no, recruit turbo prop pilots and your pilot work force will have the skills, developed over years of flying that you cannot train in a small section of a sim detail. If I was in recruitment I would be mandating turboprop experience, good job for CTC I'm not. There have always been guys lucky enough to go straight onto jets, but now it seems even changing type is frowned upon, chief pilots are missing a trick. If I was recruiting, which I now feel strongly motivated to work towards, in a career company, I would consider experience on type irrelevant long term, that's something you'll get flying for a company for decades, which the current employees have. It's the experience you bring as a new entrant, that I can't teach and the company as a whole may be able to learn from that would be of interest to me. But hey the bean counters have won, I just count my lucky stars I've flown turbo props before jets, and so should my passengers. It's silly managing safe flight has less to do with type but how you approach a situation, isn't that what we are taught in command courses, and have to demonstrate during a command assessment? That's why command upgrade often involves change of type. If you are ready for command the type experience on type helps but is not necessary. In my opinion, It's crazy that turboprop experience is considered worthless. 500 hours on type is worthless, which could be 250 sectors and 150 landings, thanks to RV ILSs on to 3000m runways. Companies like Royal Brunei have the right idea, if they must select cadets they are sent to gain experience in a Regional turbo prop company first before making theyre way onto a heavy jet. I'd pick a 2000 hour turbo prop FO with 2000 sectors and 1000 landings onto 1200m runways in 40 knot gusting winds anytime. Shame I'm not in a position to do so, if and when I do, CTC watchout...

I do apologise, rant over, and thread drift over.

Paul,
None of that is frowned on at Jet2. Indeed sometimes you can't avoid icing or crosswinds ;) and I've flown more raw data approaches since I've been here than in the last 15 years, despite having done the turbo prop thing too.

You may well be right that there is more opportunity to fly a turbo prop, but having done both I can state that there is no more willingness to hand fly, raw data, a Dash than there is a 737 especially on your sixth multi sector day at the arse end of the clock, in fact see above and I think the opposite is true. Go figure. You also have to manage a turbo prop and all the modern ones have got the same number of gizmos as a jet. So all in all, these days, it's much of a muchness.

Which leads me to my final point -

I happen to know that Jet2 has recently employed at least one DEC who has ONLY got TP hours. So you can't say Jet2 consider TP time as worthless, in fact they obviously agree with you!

You are right and jet 2 is the exception. Of course we all manage automation, (if any thing a number of TPs are more advanced than the jets assembled by Boeing and Airbus) and we choose appropriate times for hand flying / practising. The frustrations identified above just spilled out after reading the last few comments. It's a shame the comment is on the jet 2 thread as it's not directly applicable to jet 2. The comments are based on the challenges experienced moving onwards and upwards from regional turbo prop flying. Thanks for reading. Good luck to all those that move on to jet 2 by all accounts they are a good employer, who are a pleasure to work for.

So why are jet2 dragging their arse with this recruitment........ No word for months, if this TP experience is so valuable?

I really don't understand what's going on with this years recruitment. From the inside I hear that guys on part time contracts are being asked to go full time as we are short of pilots for next summer, yet on here there are clearly lots of guys waiting with no word from Leeds on assessments / job offers. Unfortunately Jet2 from an HR/bean counter perspective likes to try and be clever with numbers and try to get away with as few as possible. Flight ops know how many are required but don't seem to have enough influence to get them assessed and recruited :ugh:

One or two FO resigning/rumoured from my place (DHL).

Not very experienced guys but type-rated of course...and one of them I'm very surprised they got through! Good luck Jet2!

Penworth:

Jet2 have a habit of offering 70% first then next season 100%. I personally think each department should recruit there own with help of HR.

No offence to HR but what would they know about what makes a good pilot or not? Verbal and maths reasoning doesn't prove anything at all, Which has been proven in the last recruitment drive.

Recruitment involves a lot of time and money and personnel, so why not let the other departments help out and reduce the work load.

Team work people :ugh:

That's a bit of a sly dig Honiley. You almost sound like a Dhl manager bitter at losing a few crew. :rolleyes:

He's been dripping about Jet2 since forever. Never passes up an opportunity for a moan about them.

I didn't say TP time was 'so' valuable. My implication was that it isn't necessarily detrimental, especially modern EFIS TP time, when compared with jet time.

Of course, recruitment isn't just based on experience, just as important are the soft skills and personality. Maybe the chaps who got in with only TP time are the right sort. ;)

Bit of a prickly post, Honiley. Axe to grind? :ugh:

Speaking to one of my colleagues who is making the switch, it sounds like Jet2 are really rushing rated guys through - sim and fire training, then only 12 sectors line training as they need them on the line ASAP.

Phew! All those folk on 50% salary whilst training will be so relieved! It this also a good time to mention a bond for something that the company are legally required to do...

Sorry...just not on planet StopStart!

Been 'Under Review' for many months now and not heard a peep, does anyone know if this means anything or just an arbitrary website thing? TRed if it makes any difference.

You wouldn't enjoy Planet StopStart anyway H. It's all far too relaxed and chilled out here. :hmm:
Amusingly and for what it's worth, I no longer work for Jet2. I am still however happy to defend them as a decent enough employer.

Non-TR DEC and FO Recruitment Jet2
 

And still the waiting continues..........

Non-TR DEC and FO Recruitment Jet2
 

Don't think we are going to hear anything... It's all about Flybe now. A J2 roadshow for them was mentioned on another Flybe thread.

Same story at BACF.

did j2 hire some flybe people?