Absolutely agree. Only been flying commercially a few years despite chasing the dream for a decade. All that frustration and pain before finding a paid flying job... I now realise, it had it's purpose in life whilst allowing me to develop skills I may need one day when my airline employer goes to dust.

Proper career's are protected by fair-minded senior staff with backbone, sometimes industry regulators and very often lobby groups. They guarantee those with experience; the most to lose and the least to gain from unemployment, the right to further employability. This is, therefore, no longer a career in my eyes and I long for a part time opportunity where I can satisfy the aviation bug in me whilst being in the comfort of knowing that my second source of income will never let me down.

I don't think there is a typical starting salary anymore!

Back in 2005, my first year salary as a 200h cadet FO on Boeing was £29K basic plus flight pay and pension, in full time permanent employment. Year 2 became 39K basic, Year 3 - £41K. Change of operator and as SFO, basic increased to £52K plus decent pension contributions, etc. My P60s floated between £62-£70K.

Since 2011 I've been laid off twice (both airlines still exist, they just like to save bucks). The best deal going for me in the UK at the moment is 27 weeks temporary summer contract work worth £26K gross (I'm lucky to get this position). Out of this has to come many costs... accountant fees, national insurance for employer(!) and employee, commuting, temporary digs. No pension, no job security. No choice left but to follow in the footsteps of many of my previous co-workers and leave the UK - or leave the industry.

And then we read on here EZY will take on 400+ pilots next year, sorry - Flexicrew cadets each earning £6,000 over 6 months. Well you can be rostered 1,000 duty hours over those months, so I would say £6 an hour is a typical Jet FO starting pay here in the UK right now. :}

As an ex flexi pilot all I can say is avoid it like the plague! Seriously do not consider it, do not try and rationalise it, justify it, reason with it or convince yourself its a way to get in. Just say NO! I can give you cold hard numbers on just how much I got working for ezy and how much I physically had to pay. It isn't nice reading and I can assure you a lot of other guys can say the same.

You're 17. Do what I was doing at 17 and enjoy yourself, drink the white lightning in the park and chase the skirt. Do this while you have no responsibility or £100k loans to repay. We all understand the enthusiasm but theres no need to waste your youth chasing white elephants. I was 26 when I first jumped in a da20 and 29 when I strapped an airbus to my ass. It may have been a long wait but I appreciated every minute of training, something my younger colleagues didn't. Work, save and hope for the industry to recover and pray flexi crew can become a thing of the past. 17 year olds jumping at the chance to be a flexi pilot will not do you any long term favours.

I would suggest against uni nowadays as thats just as expensive. But thats just my own opinion.

Good luck and don't rush!

Edited for crap grammar.

Buddington
 

Hi,

I'm a tiny bit older than you Buddington (21) I am married with a young child and have long had the bug for aviation. At 11 years old I was at my local airfield (GA) cutting the clubhouse grass, cleaning the windows, vacuuming, making tea for instructors, cleaning out aircraft and was able to, at times, retrieve weather updates (met office) and if I was there early enough was able to taxi piper PA-38's from the hangar to be fueled and then to the club house grass area. Very exciting for a 11 year old and of course was taken flying, by many members flying for fun!

I had two flying lessons at 14 years old, but sadly had to stop due to my parents not being able to afford the £110 per hour. I finished school and worked as a junior admin throughout summer and during my first year of college I dropped out and worked for my dad as a finance assistant whilst still working as a junior admin.

Met my wife at 16, engaged at 18, married at 19, father at 20 and very happy! I supported her through university and she finished last year... Now its my turn and I am going to do my degree this september. Why am I telling you all this? Well....

I too was in your position, around a similar age to you and had been brainwashed by the big FTO's proclaiming that their placement record would have you in a job asap, if not immediately! But like you I decided to do more research and (thank God for pprune) found all I needed to know about the nitty gritty of this glorious industry, from this website! I still want and can only see my self flying for a living, because having flown a few times and getting the bug it never fades...but that does not mean you can't be wise about how to reach your dream.

Which takes me to my 60k degree which is not 60k, but infact £5700 for two years and I think £2700 for the third year (Don't quote me but it is close to that)! Do the maths! Not bad at all and at the end of it I will have a BA hons in Education. Great back up for when the flight training is complete and wait...wait.... here is my secret. After applying to student finance they told me (not literally but on the breakdown) that I would be taking just shy of £12,500 a year for the first two years straight into my bank! £6400 (for the two years) of which I have to pay back on top of my student tuition fee!!!

So over two years saving just shy of £25,000 towards flight training, with at the end an overall debt around £21,000ish. My course only requires me to be in one day a week for two years (only six saturdays in the final year). So I will be working two days in the office and around 4-5 night shifts on top to save. My wife has been offered a great job and is going to help some of the bills I pay while I save the rest for my flying! I will be taking it slowly, enjoying my flight training while enjoying life, gaining a degree which provides an excellent plan B should all airlines 'slam the door on me' and best of all leaves me with a flight training debt balance after 3ish years of £0.00

You have done the right thing asking for guidance here and trust me, being a debt free pilot (minus a student loan which does not require re-payment immediately after) with a degree under your belt will deffinately help when you join the hundreds, if not thousands of hopefuls looking for that first job (and I am not talking the airlines, frieight or business). Love flying for flying. Take your time. Be smart. A degree is certainly a smart move. It does not have to be aviation related although that may help...

My advice would be complete the degree, if you don't like the size of the tuition fees...find a cheaper university/college. I am not a proffessional pilot, nor am I close, but I will get there. If you love flying don't let anyone sway you from pursuing this career, but at the same time look at risks involved i.e high chance of redundancy at least once in career, away from family and friends, 'shift work', the economy etc(numerous more)...

If you have a passion for FLYING and are willing to put in an enormous amount hard work and studying you'll get there and will hopefully love your job. Just be wise.

(P.S pm me if you want any info about university and saving and doing your training the modular route)

BemaR:

"Met my wife at 16, engaged at 18, married at 19, father at 20 and very happy!"

First of all, I'm impressed at how fast you managed all those things! Congratulations :)

It does sound as though you were in a similar position to me - and yes, thank god for this forum, because otherwise I would probably have believed 90% of what the FTO's have been saying (let's face it, who wouldn't trust those infographics? :})

I'm getting a little stuck trying to add up your university fees - for the course I might do (three years, Aerospace Engineering at Kingston or Hertfordshire) it costs £9000 a year. Obviously this adds up to £27k for the three years, plus around £10k a year for living costs. £57k, so near enough £60k.

How did you manage the £12.5k degree?!

Truth be told (I can't remember if I've mentioned this before in this thread) I'm not all that interested in going to university. I haven't ruled out doing a degree at some stage in my life, but I would rather avoid going to Uni if I can. The only reason I'm considering it is as a backup plan, in case the industry manages to get worse and I am at some point right out of the industry.

It is looking like I'm going to have to wait for a while. Like many people have told me, I suppose there is no rush.

I would have to try to find something to fill the gap between college and flying though - that could be fun :uhoh:

Sprinkles:

Sorry for not noticing any of the previous responses for a while - I got sidetracked and it was only BemaR's notification that made me remember this thread.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get out of the Flexicrew situation? What are you doing now? Obviously I'd rather not be in it, but there might be some useful advice I can get from it :ok:

It's worth noting that I am definitely not jumping at the chance to be a Flexicrew pilot. Pilot, yes. Flexicrew, hell no. :cool:

Hi Buddington
 

Buddington:

Thanks for the congrats :)

Ahhh i see. Well I was looking at a degree in aeronautical engineering, but like you pointed out the fees and potential debt is staggering! I also looked at my plan C option, which had fees that matched your degree, infact here is a breakdown of the plans i went through:

• Plan A - Intergrated Flight Training...loan and job prospect made me look at Plan B,
• Plan B - Aeronautical Engineering degree, but fees and not having the ability to work and save for modular training due to complex timetable made me move to Plan C,
• Plan C - Education degree with the ability to do a PGCE....but again the fees and the timetable would have made it difficult to save for my modular training and the debt matched Plan B, so i looked at Plan D
• Plan D (plan which works for me) Education degree completed at a college where the fees are £5,700 for 2years (foundation degree)and the top up year which makes it a full Education degree (BA Hons) is i 'think' £2700, because it is classed as part-time and you can only get student finance for the tuition fees!
Year 1 and 2 is only one day a week, which is friday, which also allows me to work the crazy amount of shifts I do, save and pay my bills, aswell as pocket all that uni money :E I think the total debt i will be in, along with a maintenance loan is around 21-22k...not bad.

I haven't started my degree yet or flight training, that all starts in september :} but it works for me. If you are not interested in doing any other degree other than an aeronautical degree, my way may not work. Alot of people on this website will say the degree is not necessary to get a flying job ( which is true ) but it certainly helps if you can't get one and in my case to help pay for my training!!!

Look at the entire picture to make a wise decision. It is not impossible. Its only impossible if you stop working towards your goal! :ok: