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beerdrinker 23rd Jan 2013 09:04

FlyBe axing jobs
 
Embattled Flybe to axe 300 jobs in UK - Telegraph

RJ100 24th Jan 2013 16:16

Head count is 88 Pilots and 44 Cabin Crew to lose jobs. Bases and dates not decided.

Beaver man 25th Jan 2013 08:52

...oh yes RJ, don't let's bother to mention the underlings, almost 100 engineers. But there again, who needs engineers anyway eh?

flieng 25th Jan 2013 09:03

Engineers
 
As an ex engineer I agree with your sentiments. Loosing ones job can be devastating for anyone and some pilots only consider there own position as I guess as some engineers may?

gorter 25th Jan 2013 09:38

Ouch. I honestly thought the majority of the 300 would be middle management/hr types that could easily
Move into another industry. Seemingly the vast majority will be front line staff. Bad times indeed.

Capot 25th Jan 2013 10:47

Mike Rutter has been seen on TV saying, very earnestly but without much conviction, that management would share the pain equally. Ho, ho, ho.

Mind you, I would suggest that managers with no specific qualification, other than "experience" and perhaps a very common business qualification, will find it much more difficult to find a job than pilots and engineers who have a licensed skill to sell, so long as they are realistic about their value.

And that doesn't mean sell yourself dirt cheap! It simply means forget the line 'I got £xxxxxx with Flybe, so that's what I should get from any new job'.

Why do you think Flybe needs to shed staff? Because they cost too much.

If it's any consolation, Directors with share options are a lot poorer than they were some time ago. Not the breadline, of course, just not quite so wealthy.

Facelookbovvered 25th Jan 2013 11:47

I think Flybe are hurting off the back of APD increases, you get clobbered twice on internal flights, its hardly staff costs that are causing the pain, they are not the best payers in the industry by a long way, just not enough bums on seats and the E jets are to big for many routes, even the Dash is too big on some routes these days. Sadly the cost that they can control is employee costs.

eMACaRe 25th Jan 2013 12:49

Flybe
 
What about those newer pilots at Flybe who were lured into the MPL scheme - might be well nigh impossible to move to another company.....

judge11 25th Jan 2013 12:55

I'm really surprised to read that (according to figures quoted here) that 2/3rds of the redundancies are coming from crew and engineers.:{

I could have sworn that the original statement issued by flybe said that middle management and HR would bear the brunt. I'll have to re-read.

FERetd 25th Jan 2013 13:06

The Chop!
 
eMACaRe Quote:- "What about those newer pilots at Flybe who were lured into the MPL scheme - might be well nigh impossible to move to another company....."

An interesting point. On the otherhand are the MPL "Wonders" the cheaper option and will it be the more long time (i.e. more expensive - and more experienced) pilots that lose their jobs? I guess that it depends upon the Ts & Cs of employment.

As for the MPL pilots having difficulty moving to another job, well, you get what you pay for. It is difficult enough getting a job with a"proper" licence.

Sad to see anybody lose their job, though.

CaptainSAC 25th Jan 2013 14:11

I'm not surprised. I live 15mins away from Exeter Airport and travel to Nice and return about twice a month. Flybe used to fly direct to Nice, Return, on a Friday and on a Monday as well as many other days in the summer, it was great I could fly down on Monday and back on Friday, if on Business, then down on Friday and back on Monday for pleasure. It was always about 3/4 to full all the time, and cost about £200 a time, return, but they stopped it last year and you now have to fly via Paris so £560 return. I now drive to Bristol which is 1 hr 15mins away and use EasyJet, and even paying for all the extras etc etc and my fuel in the car it less than £200 return. APD is the same!! FlyBe have bad management and bad destination schedules, its all their own fault. WAKE UP.....!!!!

2blackdogs 25th Jan 2013 15:46

So much for the " robust business model" which "positions the airline to take advantage of the up-turn" ! Not much use if the company folds in the meantime. They want to look at the pricing structure, because the longer people find money tight, the more it`s all about ticket price. Not making flying better is it?

josh7 25th Jan 2013 17:13

I feel for the MPL guys who are currently in training. As they don't even have a valid license until they have completed their line check. Unbelievable.

Binder 25th Jan 2013 17:36

Used to work with Rutter in a previous life flogging performance plastics...

Newcastle to CDG 14th March 2013 one way Flybe £467.

Leeds Bradford to CDG 14th March one way Jet 2 £36.50.

I realise NCL is a code share. But come on...you are either low cost or you are not!

Confused!

MaxReheat 25th Jan 2013 18:46

Flybe has never been 'low cost' despite their marketing effort.:=

Boing7117 25th Jan 2013 18:49

Manchester to CDG 14th March one way Flybe £60 (similar time to your jet2 flight)

Getting a bit closer for you binder?

We are living in a ridiculous world of expectation whereby the fare paying passenger on a modern day airliner thinks its acceptable to travel 500 miles in under 90 minutes for less than the cost of a tank of petrol / or a car MOT / or a weekly shop.


Oh, and the same trip of March 14 via the Eurostar will cost you £39. You'd just need to get yourself to St Pancras station first.

A little sense of perspective is necessary here chaps. Lets get real.

Hotel Tango 25th Jan 2013 19:04


Flybe has never been 'low cost' despite their marketing effort.
My thoughts exactly. On a couple of routes I fly, I found that the competition offered equal or cheaper fares together with a superior product. Consequently I stopped using FlyBe.

turbine100 25th Jan 2013 20:28

Any one training for a MPL or with one at Flybe and restricted, would know the risks of being tied to an airline, prior to starting the training. Those training will hopefully be able convert during training to finish with a frozen ATPL instead.

Sorry to hear the job losses :(

mad_jock 25th Jan 2013 20:39

I doudt very much its the MPLs they will want rid of.

I suspect it will be the FO's at the top of the FO's pay scale.

I had heard that due lack of movement the whole flight crew pay budget was way way out due the the profile of experenced FO's they have with nearly no movement by the LHS either.

Might also find that they would have to pay off the rest of the training loan as well for the cadet intake if they made them redundant before the loan was repayed in full.

2 Whites 2 Reds 25th Jan 2013 21:08

I wanted to fly SOU-NCL return back in mid December......for me and the Mrs including a small bag each, it was over £530!!!! How on earth could they expect to continue in this fashion. Ended up paying BA to fly us LHR-NCL-LHR for less than £280.

I'm not sure what Flybe has become.....to me it's a lost sheep charging the earth. I thought the point of the Dash 8 was to be able to save fuel and therefore offer pax a cheaper regional service. When major Jet competitors are coming in at half the price or less, something has gone majorly wrong at Flybe.

Very very sad. It's a company I'd dearly love to work for later down the line but, for now, I hope Mr French & Co can find their feet and sort out this bloody great mess.

Have a good weekend all

ROSCO328 25th Jan 2013 21:36

As someone who works for the orange compition I would like to express my sadness to those who may loose their positions over the current situation at Flybe. We all wish to do well but not at the cost of others employment.

Alloy 25th Jan 2013 22:13

Like ROSCO328, but from Spotty M, I'm saddened like many of my colleges to see what is happening at FlyBE and wish the best for those loosing their jobs. The people I've worked with who are ex FlyBE/JEA are a good bunch.

hec7or 26th Jan 2013 08:51

binder
 

Used to work with Rutter in a previous life flogging performance plastics...
didn't know you sold 787s!

Uplinker 26th Jan 2013 09:10


...oh yes RJ, don't let's bother to mention the underlings, almost 100 engineers. But there again, who needs engineers anyway eh?
Beaver; I'm sure RJ can speak for themself, but perhaps they didn't know about any other trades losses apart from F/D? It doesn't mean they dismiss you, as you seem to think.

Deeply saddened to hear about the Flybe redundancies. Hope you all get through this, guys and gals.

remoak 26th Jan 2013 11:34

Beaver Man


...oh yes RJ, don't let's bother to mention the underlings, almost 100 engineers. But there again, who needs engineers anyway eh?
And the name of this forum is... what?

Nobody is denigrating the cost to engineers and other folk too, but this is a pilot forum and it is only natural that most of us will be considering the implications for pilots.

And with regard to that massive chip on your shoulder, in my 7 years at flybe I never considered engineers to be "underlings". There were a few grumpy ones at BHX, but the majority were good guys and mates.

Here's hoping that flybe can recover. JF is a canny operator and has got the company out of very tight spots before - there were times in the late '90s/early 2000s that the company was hours away from shutting down. Give the man a chance. He is not the kind of man to lay staff off unless he absolutely has to.

Burpbot 26th Jan 2013 14:10

"Give the man a chance"

His already said his off Into the sunset with his wedge! I really hope those left can pull something out of the bag, and keep a thoroughly decent bunch of guys and girls in jobs. Best wishes to all those who got the short straw, I hope other opportunities are forthcoming in the near future.

Albert Hall 26th Jan 2013 15:55

This really is tragic for the many people being made redundant who had little or no capability to influence the situation. Even more tragic is that the UK division remains in the hands of a man whom, although broadly affable, is incapable of making decisions and establishing what needs to be done. It is no surprise that the rot really set in when the decent management team were shipped off to the Russian front to run the Finland operation. APD hasn't helped, but a set of poor management decisions and inaction in the UK operation is the underlying root cause of the problems.

AtomKraft 26th Jan 2013 17:51

Didn't they put in a huge order for Embaer 175s recently?

I haven't seen much of these aircraft. Have they been delivered to Flybe- or is this another part of the same problem?

Leg 27th Jan 2013 00:00

Atom, try and keep up & don't ask silly inane questions
when people's livelihoods are on the line.
However I shall spell it out for you as it may
help take my mind of destitute'ism* for a while...

The order for 175 jets was made some time ago,
deliveries commenced just over 1 yr ago, there
are plenty around, EDI, ABZ, INV all have
one apiece, Brum and Manc have even more,
so you have not been looking very hard...
The next 3 deliveries have been deferred.

Albert Hall, spot on my friend, can't agree with you
more, although I would not go as far as "broadly affable".
Before even 1 hard working Pilot/Engineer/Cabin Crew
loose their job that :mad: should be out on his ear
with NO golden handshake, a swift kick in the tailpipe
will suffice. Quite frankly it's scandalous he keeps his job.


* for the benefit of the proon spelling police, that was intentional
poor English, grammar and diction.... and that... :ugh:

ETOPS 27th Jan 2013 07:02

Well I can tell you the effect of this announcement from first hand experience.

Mrs ETOPS called in on Friday and given her 90 days notice - this only just over a year since exactly the same thing at her previous airline.

Gutted doesn't even come close..............

Rosterchangeagain 27th Jan 2013 07:14

That seems terribly quick. Is Mrs ETOPs flight deck?
Is there not a consultation period to undergo and what are BALPA doing to help?

Journey Man 27th Jan 2013 07:44

ETOPS

Sorry to hear that. Fingers crossed she gets picked up quickly. Is she LHS/RHS? I gather the excess is on the left, but the push is to cut the last ones in?

From friends in the company it seems the training is very good and no doubt anyone moving on would be an asset to any airline. Good luck.

hobnobanyone 27th Jan 2013 08:12

First of all, thank you very much to those who have offered their kinds words in light of the current situation.

From my part: as you can imagine it's horrible, and a lot of us are looking over our shoulders and wondering what we can actually do. The uncertainty is the particularly nasty part of this entire thing. Management are progressively going around bases - especially those bases who didn't hear that they were at risk from the staff newsletter - but actually from the press instead.

It's just a terribly sad situation whichever way you look at it. Even for those who do survive the cull of staff, the employer/employee relationship will be ruined and I suspect we'll see a vast number moving on. To where is the question - and with a useless Type Rating and nobody interested in Turboprop pilots, I can't really say...

My thoughts are with everyone involved in this at the moment.

B Fraser 27th Jan 2013 08:40

I live equidistant from Exeter and Bristol airports so I have a choice of carriers to almost anywhere in Europe.

I recently tried to book a FlyBe business ticket from Exeter to Belfast to get me there at a decent time in the morning and return in the evening. Not a hope. The Orange squad at Bristol got the outbound flight however they only go to International which is a 30 quid taxi ride into town. I came back from City on Flymaybe via Manchester to Exeter and both flights were half empty. I had forgotten how cramped the Dash-8 is and could not fit a laptop bag in the overhead bin.

The return flight was two sectors but cost four times the price of the outbound flight. There was a modicum of comfort in that the taxi journey was 20 quid cheaper in Belfast. Their business model is seriously flawed and the market will show no mercy.

Tu.114 27th Jan 2013 08:58

It may or may not be that their business model has proven unsound. But let us distinguish here: the guys (and gals) paying for this by losing their work are not the ones responsible for any business decision. The blame for the business model, schedules, pricing and the like goes straight to the company brass; responsibility for unbearable taxes and other millstones the company needs to carry around is the authorities. In contrast, none of the blame goes to those working on the line and keeping the aircraft moving.

Please accept my sympathy as well - it is not a nice situation to be thrown into, and I do hope that You will soon find new employment. I do assume that some aircraft will be sold - possibly following them and applying with the buying company would be an option?

Tableview 27th Jan 2013 09:14

I have every sympathy for most of the people who work for this outfit, and who are the victims of bad management decisions, as indeed are the customers. I used to fly quite a lot with Flybe, thankfully recently have managed to avoid doing so. Nearly every experience was bad, due to either cancelled or delayed flights, bad service on board, and all that at high fares due to the monopoly position that Flybe has on many routes.

I hope there is a solution, failing which I can only see Flybe losing business and heading downhill.

Beavis and Butthead 27th Jan 2013 11:36


No air crew have been given 90 days notice. A 90 day consultation process with the unions has commenced though. No one can second guess until we see the result of these consultations.
When an airline initiates the requirement for a 90 day consultation period, make no mistake, they fully intend on implementing redundancy. Little can sway them from this. I hope in this case something can. Having suffered 3 redundancies in 17 years I feel greatly for those at flybe affected. It really is a brutal industry.

B&B

Albert Hall 27th Jan 2013 12:07

The best bet for the few unions involved is to make their participation in the turnround plan 100% dependent on a change of management in the UK division. If they do not, the turnround plan will become irrelevant as there will be no airline left to implement it.

fade to grey 27th Jan 2013 14:17

Can we not turn this into a pssing contest from passengers about where they got a better flight from A to B cheaper ? F*ck off to the professional passengers rumour network...

Sorry to hear of the situation in FlyBe , my mate finally managed to get in after years trying last year ! Disaster !- I was laid off from Astraeus when they went bust and it's a hard market out there regardless of what TR/hours you have.

I'd suggest get straight on the phone to PARC about their constantly advertised, ANA wings requirement for Dash8 Capts.

2 Whites 2 Reds 27th Jan 2013 14:30

fade to grey....

Absolutely right. This shouldn't be a pissing contest between pax when people are about to face redundancy. My previous post regarding my own personal experience was purely meant as an example of where Flybe has gone wrong.

Sadly, this is the responsibility of the management but as per usual it's the poor folks on the line that will suffer the consequences of some misguided decision making at the top.

A mate of mine also got a job with them last year after years of waiting....sincere sympathies to all those affected. Hopefully this mess will be soon sorted out.


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