I'm not sure it is a p@£sing contest ftg.
Flybe are blaming all their woes on APD, from what I've read so far in this thread people are merely pointing out that the exorbitant fares Flybe charge on some routes mentioned should be well able to absorb the APD and still make money. I position frequently on them, and do raise my eyebrows at times when an hours flight is £180 each way. Perhaps the management should look in the mirror more closely.
I hope it's just a scare tactic and everyone is OK, though from Mrs ETOPS experience it may well be for real. All the best to everyone, as usual the staff who do a decent job day in day out are the easy management target.

Never trusted the little weasel, ever since he met me smiling at the steps,when I had just brought in one of the first Jets of our Company into to operate a service out of Leeds.JF was in charge of sales there,and welcomed me with open arms,to bring a faster service to Scotland and N Ireland.However we never got the seats filled,and a plot was uncovered where the Flights were assumed full by the Computer,when there were still plenty of seats,which had been effected by an Employee-apparently the one in charge!!.Our Competitor was Jersey European,which was a brother Airline as we trained their Pilots and I had always assumed a very friendly business cooperation.They did not operate a Jet then,but Jack Walker had a spy/saboteur in our ranks,who allowed the JEA F27s to pick up pax otherwise destined for our shiny new Jets.This said employee resigned before he should have been sacked,and surprise surprise went quickly to work for JEA in a more exulted position.JEA duly got their own Jets and our Excellent work environment Airline was first half sold shares to the Dutch,then taken over by them,and gone!!!!JEA became Flybe and said ratbag became its master.Say no more:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The redundancies are indeed real - I know of three people affected directly.

I'm talking about a different person to FASToat though - it's not JF that I was referring to.

The points being raised are very sensible though. If the prices, flight times and reliability are unattractive to customers, then it's part of the reason why the business is failing which will ultimately be to the detriment of all of those who work there.

I count myself lucky I had my interview cancelled by FlyBe back in August (market forces they said), I was forced to spread my search wider and have since moved on to a better paid operation.

I have friends who started within a year or so, is it last in first out?

well, that's what I'm saying - this post isn't about why flybe are not doing well but those affected.
I don't think companies can do last in first out anymore, you have to have point scoring system with stuff like sim checks, sick days etc.

on the plus side I see flydubai taking non TR folks , with experience of 10T or greater - could be ideal for those wishing to make the move to a useful type. Albeit not in the UK

I thought LIFO was not allowed any more under employment law. Is it not a meritocracy? So sickness, disciplinary, training etc can all be taken into account.

Having been in the same position as the Flybe guys (and girls) I feel for you. Best of luck.

A4

You will find that the points system that is used will be so heavily weighted towards length of service that it will effectively be LIFO.

Looking in thats what you would think but BALPA will get involved and they love seniority even if it means 4 people have to go instead of 2.

Someone told me at work today that Flybe are over crewed by 40 Captains in Manchester. Sounds a hellva lot could understand a couple but 40 seems very high.

No it isn't 40 captains, it's 40 pilots.

I would imagine that many of the guys on hearing this news will be brushing up CVs and firing out applications like theres no tomorrow. If many find places to go there might not be any need for redundancies at all!

I've noticed this advert for a non type rated 737 operator full time contract on the Thomson recruiting thread if anyone's seen it?

Non type rated 737NG Low hour first officers with C & M Recruitment Ltd | 465079

Having been through this process myself, twice in the last few years ! I have a genuine concern that fly be are making the same mistake a few other companies that are no longer with us made. That is , if we cut a few aircraft a few routes a few pilots a few cabin crew a few engineers and a few office staff the company will suddenly become profitable. This knee jerk cutting in search of a core business that is profitable virtually never works especially if the company has underlying business problems, which reading other posts may be the case.

The manager giving the brief will always say this is vital for the company to survive and after we do it all will be well. It's not. it's just the easiest way for poor managers to keep the accountants and creditors happy for six months until they come looking for more cuts. Then the same process happens again to no ones surprise except those managers !

I really hope I'm wrong but it all looks and sounds horribly familiar. Good luck to all my friends and former colleagues I know how you are all feeling, it's a horrible time and I wish you all the best.

One of the snag for Flybe is that now it's listed, its problems are played out in public and there is huge pressure to report short-term improvements (i.e. quarterly). We all know however that what presents a short term improvement may not help out in the medium to longer term.

Sympathies to those affected as finding a new flight deck position will obviously be tough going, and many flybe guys have spent the last few years looking for the next rung up anyway but to no avail.

Cheeky, I think you might be right, sadly.

By the way does anyone know who it was that managed to oppose the 30 day consultation period that the Flybe dirty tricks department initially offered?

FAWeasel

You may not like JF, but having worked at both Air UK and JEA/BE/Flybe, he is more of a manager than the idiots at Air UK who handed the airline to the Dutch, which then resulted in the Air UK pilots getting the shafting they didn't deserve. I know who I'd rather work for!

I agree, recent joiners are very likely to be young, which in itself is probably the result of age-discriminatory criteria in selection for these junior boys and girls on the mentored/part sponsored courses in the first place. Funny old world!

Discrimination?
 

six-sixty Quote "...is probably the result of age-discriminatory criteria..."

Or financial discrimination by selecting only those that can afford the training?

Oh dear, are the PC brigade out again?

Whats the T&C's for the youngsters?

Do they get their training loans payed back if they get made redundant?

Beaver man & flieng

Seeing as this was posted on the Flight Deck Forums Terms & Endearments. It is a comment about the flight deck jobs.

RJ.

Terms and Endearments
 

RJ100 Quote "Seeing as this was posted on the Flight Deck Forums Terms & Endearments. It is a comment about the flight deck jobs."

Exactly, including how people get the jobs, how some unfortunates are going to lose their jobs and why they are going to lose their jobs.

Flight Deck Jobs
 

I agree it is a forum primarily for flight deck. As I am a professional pilot (as well as a Licensed Engineer) I have the prerogative to speak about flight deck matters as well as any other subject I wish to as long is does not contravene the rules of PPRUNE. I have responded to an Engineer who seems to be under the impression that pilots only consider their own position, maybe he/she is correct?