Norwegian Malaga Roster and new bases
 

Hi All, do you know how is the rostering with Norwegian ? I mean 5/4/5/3 but do you start from AGP and come back only after 5 days, sleeping in different places, or do you fly from/to AGP daily ?
How many sectors average per day ? monthly flight hours ? Any standby days ?
Other question : does anyone knows what are the plans for future new bases ?? where and when ???

Many thanks !

At the moment, Day1 start in AGP & fly North. Night stop in one (or several) locations, Day 5 Southbound to AGP.

Day1 & 5 can either be operating or positioning sectors. For the last 6 mths this sometimes allowed opportunities to commute into CPH/ARN etc from other places (particularly handy for Scandinavian domiciled colleagues).

Having failed to effectively tackle Norwegian, the Union has decided the way to advance everyones case is to insist that Norwegian ensure we are present on any rostered positioning flight. Apart from screwing up the time off at home for my Scandinavian colleagues I don't see this achieves very much else. Too little too late, and a rather pathetic attempt to make up for their lack of resolve when their dispute was at its height.

There is an ongoing "expectation" that we will have AGP based aircraft from end of Oct, but this is not confirmed. Current rumour is 2 based airframes, so obviously this will not radically change the current roster of most based crew, although there will be a small number of out & back duties amongst the mix.
Most days are 2 x 3-4 hr sectors from up North, sometimes 4, once in a blue moon 6, and as I said Day 1 & 5 are usually 1 sector, either op or posn.
Monthly hrs not so high, the Union is succeeding in its aim to make us look inefficient :hmm: As the "Summer agreement" between Norwegian & the Union has ended they are not quite sure how to best use us, so most of us have had weeks of Standby's on the Sep roster. Previously there were the odd day here & there, but usually a week of SBY in the past meant simply that they just hadn't decided where you would fly that week.
Once roster has been published days off CANNOT change (unless you agree to work a Day Off, for which you are paid) but the pattern can be moved 1 day either side & 1 day taken off (given back later in the month) subject to minimum block of 3 days at the planning stage . . . . . BUT, I have been told that those recruited recently for LPA base are on a totally variable roster with no fixed pattern, so this may now be history.
Some colleagues were "moved" from AGP to LPA/HEL and "seniority" (well, the Contractors equivalent) does not appear to have been considered.
Rumours for next bases are ALC & LGW, timescale ? probably early next year ?
LPA is foreseen initially as a Winter base, so anyone headed there may expect to learn about the new bases sometime before 31st March.
Proposed Annual Leave system does not appear to have too many admirers,it is also very difficult (if not impossible) to swap Days off & the Union is making it rather more difficult than it need be for Commuters ( :ok: :mad: :\ )
Nonetheless, still one of the better contract jobs out there, who knows what will happen at the end of two years as the Union has demanded that at this stage we be offered "permanent" employment. Those of us in AGP will have a "Heads Up" next March when HEL (the 1st contract base) becomes 2 yrs old.
Waiting, with a mixture of trepidation/anticipation as to whether I am offered a nice contract, or told to get the :mad: out of my LHS at my Base because the contract offered is "too" good & a permanent FO from up North (who didn't like/want my "contracted" terms) is now about to usurp me (with the Unions blessing of course) now that something better is offered.
I am a fairly pro-union guy, but it isn't all sunshine for everyone & I think their efforts may be a little misdirected at this time.

Im sad that you think the union's efforts are misguided. To begin with, I find it more or less amazing that the union allowed contractors to fly Scandinavian production in the first place. The AGP base is fictional base and a cover up to fly Scandinavian production with cheaper labour. As of today, Norwegian has no routes (excluding HEL) from AGP that are non-Scandinavian.

The agreement from May this year stated that the company would be allowed to have to have contractors fly from Scandinavia in order to cope with anual leave during the summer. This exempt expired on the 1st of September and the company violated the agreement (not so surprisingly) immediately by keeping contractos on Scandinavian production. The company is forcing the union's hand by ignoring previously agreed terms. It is very unfortunate the the contractors get stuck in the middle of everything but the union is fighting for you guys to get permanent position since there is obviously a permanent need for pilots in Scandinavia. I fear that the conflict will escalate in the coming weeks... :(

...you mean the coming days, perhaps? From the press in Norway; The union is taking DY to court for breach of collective agreement. The AGP based pilots (as we all know are on these debated contracts) are being transported from AGP to various Scandinavian bases to operate flights that have been reserved for pilots on permanent employment terms. Which is a breach of the agreement.

So the union is alive and kicking, and we should again be supportive of their efforts:ok:

LeftHeadingNorth,

Sorry, didn't mean misguided, as in " a bad idea", was thinking more like, their current actions seem calculated to cause hassle to us Contractors without having any tangible effect on the Company, which does nothing to change their actions (surely the goal ? ). Perhaps misdirected was a better word.

Totally agree, the companies interpretation of the agreement was taking the p1ss big time, but, can't help thinking that they should have stood a bit more firm last time (when they had overwhelming support , both from within & outside NAS) & saved themselves having to revisit it again 6mths later.

Does Norwegian take care of your accomodation whilst away from AGP?
Do they pay a nightstop allowance?

Accomodation is provided.
No idea about allowance...

Yes


No



You earn exactly the same each month regardless of block hours /nights away. Currently 8800€ Capt/5100€ FO at the moment net, in the near future (well it is proposed for the new starts) "Gross" with up to 30% deductions arbitrarily levied by the agencies.

Anyhow, compared to the difference between what is currently paid to Contractors & what is proposed , that is of very little relevance.

Ask your agency about the "tax situation".

Nothing can be sure for the future, only certainty is that none of us will be in the same situation/base in 1 years time.

Very fluid/dynamic situation at this moment between NAS/NPF/Contractors.

Have they decided now who (agency/pilot?) is paying taxes and the social insurance parts? Heard a while ago they would be using the agency to employ the pilots, and so the agency would be paying the social insurance part? Can anyone confirm this?

Interview 'hoops' for Captains
 

Just wondering if anyone has been through the interview process for Norwegian? I have heard that they are now doing raw data sims and psychometric testing?

Hi - A few questions.

What is the roster pattern?

Is the Captains salary 95.600 euros / year irrespective of block hours?

Are they recruiting now?

Thanks

Norwegian opens new bases of operations at London Gatwick and Alicante
Published:25.10.2012 By:Astrid Mannion

Norwegian Air Shuttle will establish a new base of operations at London’s Gatwick Airport in spring 2013.

It will also establish a new base of operations at Alicante, Spain. Norwegian will offer flights to several Mediterranean destinations and the Nordic region from London. The new base in England will also enable Norwegian to better meet the head-on competition from Asian and European carriers in the long-haul market.

Norwegian is already a significant player at London Gatwick. With more than 100 weekly departures between the Nordic region and London, the British capitol is Norwegian’s most popular destination outside its home market. The airline sees a major passenger potential in London and surrounding areas. The Alicante base will – in addition to already established bases at Malaga and Las Palmas – serve an important part of Norwegian’s Spanish traffic.

Norwegian is planning to start its operations at London Gatwick with three Boeing 737-800s and increase to four aircraft by the end of the year. The first flights will commence in spring 2013. Pilots and cabin crew will be recruited locally.

“By establishing a new base in London, Norwegian will be positioned to meet the future competition on short-haul routes within Europe as well as long-haul routes globally. Growth and volumes are necessary to stay competitive in the airline industry,” said CEO Bjørn Kjos of Norwegian.

Norwegian currently has bases of operations in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Spain. A new base for the company’s subsidiary for long-haul flights is being established in Bangkok.

LGW...Life just got interesting!

:ok:

I know that there are lots of people in the company already forming the queue for LGW. Expect to join the back via LPA, ALC etc

Boeingisgoing
 

People on this forum might have a little more sympathy with what you have to say if the English made any sense what so ever.

About half of your statement is an unintelligible random selection of English words and the the other half is so subject to interpretation that from a legal point of view that it is meaningless.

The only point that you make well is that the Spanish government is so short of money that it is trying to grab the social taxes of peope who are starting and ending their working period in Spain but are resident in other EU states dispite this being in conflict with Article 6 of EC regulation 883/2004 in two parts, those being Transitional arangements and Frequent change of base.

Both of these parts of the EC regulation allow the social taxes to be paid in the country of residence, as with all regulations you have to read the small print, not just the headlines !

A and C, It looks to me that he was talking about being self employed or not, not discussing where the social taxes should be paid.

In Spain it seems to be illegal to have an employment disguised by a temporary contract.

Spain is not the only country where disguised self employment is an illegal practice, several investigations are ongoing in a growing number of countries especially targeting Ryanair bases.
In many countries it also illegal to work as a pilot with your own ltd and being subcontracted to an airline for contracts that last years, investigations are ongoing on this subject as well.
True that governments need money badly in times of crisis, Ireland included , but it is also true that this tax ,social security and labor law scam has to be stopped if we don't want to waste decades of social development and plunge back into the 18th century in just a few years.

It looks like that all new contract (and some old) will be with ón variable roster, making it very hard to come home :(
This is getting Worse and worse, now RYR is Much more attractive.

Self Employment & tax
 

It may be considered illegal self employment in Spain but I don't think that they can force a UK resident who only sets foot in Spain for a few hours at the start and end of a duty cycle to pay income tax, the EU regulation 833/2004 however gives the Spanish some sort of lever to apply the social taxes but only if they only read the parts of the regulation that support their case and not the parts that don't.

A getting on and off an aircraft at one place along with the occasional night in a hotel is hardly the basis for taxing someone, being resident is, that is why I pay my taxes in my country of residence and as long as I comply with the states tax regulations it is nothing to do with Spain or any other EU state that wants a bit of the action.

In short in my case it is for the UK tax authority's to tax me according to the UK law and my responsabiltity to pay the correct amount of tax.

If you are based in Spain (like in this case) the situation is different. Unless you live onboard the aircraft or commute back "home" immediately.

aozc
 

I commute home on the first flight I can find from the EU state that I start and end my work cycle. Occasionally I might take a hotel room if the first flight home is the next day.

How is that possible on a NAS roster?

aozc
 

I did not say it was on an NAS roster I was talking generally about taxation in the EU.

A and C,
it is obvious that you have a personal agenda here but you will have, probably sooner than later, follow the very same laws you like to mention....."if you only read the parts of the regulation that support your case and not the parts that don't."

Here is what your beloved EU regulations clearly state:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...04:0010:EN:PDF

A few extracts:

I would start contacting SEPLA for tax and SI information if I were you......:}:}:}

There is a risk here of confusing taxation legislation and the requirements for paying social security as pointed to in the above link.

The two are different.

On tax if you have to pay in Spain this will be credited against your UK liability (there is a double taxation treaty as with most Eu countries) and so broadly speaking you won't be any worse off....just more paperwork!

As always no substitute for professional advice.

Binder

Dannyalliga
 

As usual you are half correct and ( like a number of impecunious southern europan governments) pushing the agenda that you favour by only quoting part of the regulations.

I also think that you are probably correct about the EC member states getting tough on those evading tax but it will be much more difficult for them to try to tax me if I am already paying tax in my EU state of residence. I can't help thinking that if the tax is split between two or three EU states it will cost more to administer than the money they collect !

While I can't get the link that you have posted to download I suspect that it is not an official government website so I will direct you to the UK government website on the subject, please note the second and third paragraphs.

HM Revenue & Customs: National Insurance: New EU rules for flight and cabin crew working in two or more Member States

As to the income tax I find myself in agreement with Binder.

Binder,

there is a much finer and educated analysis you should make: in many countries paying social security (what the above links refer to) does not simplistically mean that you pay in one country or another but it involves LEGAL aspects.
An example?In most countries you cannot pay social security from abroad without having a locally based and compliant structure.
How would your relationship to this structure be now?Employee?Director?In any case you would have to have a locally legal bond to this structure that is paying social security for you, therefore some sort of contracts that complies with local laws and regs.
Now how does that go together with your Brookfield/Storm/Parc/Rishworth contract?

I will give you a simple example from the UK system with a quote taken from their website (Social security benefits: statutory maternity pay: summary) about maternity pay:

Let's assume you are based in the UK but resident in Spain while working for an Irish agency that is subcontracting you to a Norwegian carrier: you now pay SI in the UK as per the new EU law but cannot apply a basic benefit like maternity pay because the UK HMRC does not have the authority over a foreign employer.
This issue is being dealt with as we speak already by a few EU states and the solution they are talking about is not innovative at all but a simple and old one: local contracts.

How come you are so suspicious?I have understood very well the type of pedantic person with a selfish agenda you are so I only post links to official websites and agencies......:}:}:}:}

Au contraire Danny, it is you who appears to harbour an agenda. A&C is merely pointing out that he complies with the regulations pertaining to anyone whose contract existed before the cut-off of 25th June (? ) being compliant by paying his social charges in either his country of residence (or country of his employer) which choice he may exercise for the next 10 years.

Liability for income tax is quite another subject, and may also be complied with in many innovative ways.

To answer the previous question, the current Norwegian roster in Malaga will very easily facilitate the scenario aozc queried.

captplaystation,

I have no problem in admitting that I have an agenda, the difference between mine and A and C's rests in his selfishness.

I don't see wishing to pay your social charges in your country of residence, where you may partake of social services etc (in preference to a bankrupt Southern European basket-case, where schools/hospitals etc are woefully underfunded . . . . particularly if you don't even live there) as being selfish, I would categorise it as prudent expenditure of income.

Not if a huge chunk of income is generated by your airline in that bankrupt basket-case carrying southern europeans often on domestic routes, same airline that pretends to be based in what once was Saxonia (nowadays a Pakistani colony) but then we all know where they base most of their aircraft and crews.

If we then want to open a discussion about the concept of "permanent establishment" please be my guests....
The following investigation started well before the new EU regulation:
Ryanair accused of avoiding tax - The Irish Times - Tue, Oct 16, 2012

....and let's face it, if you are resident in one EU country, commuting to another and are likely to go back home should your job finish or to use healthcare facilities or retire why should you pay SI on the basis of a notional base? If the centre of your life's affairs is in one country why should another state get the benefit of you paying, what is essentially, a tax for no benefit.

Just sounds like a massively over-complicated way of ensuring more jobs for government employees in both countries sorting out cross-border entitlements. Thank you Brussels.

It'll probably turn into a massive nause if either one of the countries ceases to remain within the EU too. :* :ugh:

spanner the cat,
the following is a quote from the EU website....

Good news about the LGW base....shame its only three going up to four this year. They could fill ten times that with unhappy STN RYR crew alone!

danny, that is a bit "broad brush/disingenious" the number of years you must have worked in Spain to achieve a "full pension" ( & that is NOT a lot of € ) increases every year.

If you think you can work 20 years in (say) UK & come to Spain, work 5, and claim a full pension. . .well.

I think you are well intentioned, but you are coming across as a sort of "EEC apologist". With the greatest of respect, please look at the efforts the EEC have made to harmonise things that may benefit us (healthcare/pensions/sick-pay/acceptance of academic qualifications ) & compare it with the effort devoted to things like harmonisation of speeding fines etc . . .and draw your own conclusions.

I am totally with you in the discussion about Ryanair making loads of dosh flying as a "Spanish airline" whilst contributing Nada to Spain (well except the small matter of several million extra tourists :hmm: ) but, please stop muddying the waters of the "discussion" on this thread, with what, is actually, YOUR agenda. You are correct, but stop hijacking threads. A and C is 100% totally correct in his assertions, & if you really think that he (and me too) are responsible for the problems in Spain, could I suggest you turn your attentions to the "Manana" philosophy that has existed here for the past couple of decades in relation to building/ public expenditure/banking . . . . you are a little bit "Red Robbo", this isn't maybe so bad, but direct your criticisms /vitriol accurately & lay off A and C (your posting history doesn't lend you much impartiality here :rolleyes: ) as I am in a similar situation & find your "Socialist/Brussels knows best" rantings misguided at best. In all seriousness, have you ever actually been in Spain, unemployed , and tried to claim something based on your years of "service" in (for example) the UK, or France ? nope ? me yes. . . . believe me, I will only pay if I "may" get something in return, and I fully respect the views of anyone holding the same opinion.

Your "idealism" is trumped by the "reality" of the failure of the EEC countries to even begin to harmonise the things that actually matter on a day to day basis , to those of us living here ( as spanner the cat alluded to in a slightly less verbose manner)

Go away, try being unemployed in "another" EEC country & then come back & tell us all to "PAY UP". . . . . . . Nah, don't think you will shout so loud :=

London Gatwick base
 

Does anyone here know if Norwegian's London Gatwick base will require employees or contractors and, if contractors, how the UK tax and social security contributions will be paid? Is direct employment an option with Norwegian or must you serve your time as a contractor via one of the agencies first?

It will be contract through one of the agencies...

Dannyalliga
 

Please can you tell me why you think that I am selfish ? I think you should at least give a reason for this abusive statement.

I pay my taxes in the EU state I am resident in and if I require any help from the state for unemployment or sickness I will use the resources of that state.

As for retirement pensions if I paid into another EU states social tax system that state would have to pay me a retirement pension, this would more than likely be a small sum ( due to the few years I would be paying the social tax ). However it would cost the same to administer as for a resident who had made lifelong contributions. This would put an unfair burden on that states social security system, surely it would be better for me to keep paying into the system in my country of residence and avoid the unnecessary burden that I would on one or more EU states ?


It is my guess that this whole social tax thing was set up by EU officials who think that airline crew bases are permanent things that last for years and that people always live near their base, over the next ten years it will slowly dawn on these clueless EU administrators what an administratively expensive monster they have set up when they have to sort out the pension payments to people who have small pots of money in the social systems in three or four EU states !

Because you only consider your personal interests, your own personal situation and your own personal view of the future.
I am more interested in what this job is becoming and in trying to stop it rotting.
If my type of mentality wins then those like you will also benefit from the changes it will bring, if your mentality prevails instead then the rot will spread and in the long run you too will pay the price.

It is immoral and soon proven illegal to set up a permanent business in one country while enjoying the friendlier tax/SI of another country.
It is immoral and illegal to employ workers in a country where labor law favors the employer and then permanently base them in another where they cannot enjoy any local rights.
It is immoral and illegal (in many jurisdictions) to employ huge percentages of workers as fake contractors forcing them to set up LTDs in one country and then deploying them permanently in another one.
It is immoral to base large numbers of aircraft and crew in a country different from the one the business is based therefore conducting unfair competition.
It is immoral to claim jobs are created by this system while other companies shrink or go bust due to unfair competition.
It is immoral to do illegal business abroad making local airlines go bankrupt and then not paying the unemployment benefits to the 1000s workers who lost their jobs.
It is immoral to do illegal business in a foreign country where competitors went bust dur to unfair competition and then not hiring those who were left without a job because it is more convenient to make money out of 200 hours cadets.

I know you probably don't have a clue of what I am talking about, no problem I just hope you guys are the minority....otherwise this profession is over for good.