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-   -   Monarch Anyone? (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/486524-monarch-anyone.html)

Wee Weasley Welshman 24th Jul 2012 16:11

Where were Monarch when you needed your first job two years ago?

I'm glad flexicadets are finding alternative jobs. Its a win for them, easyJet, CTC, some new guy, the trainers and Monarch. I don't really 'get' Monarchs new business plan but that's probably because I'm a bit thick and it hasn't been explained to me enough. No airline is 'safe' these days. Even the walls of the mighty Air France are starting to tremble..

greywind 24th Jul 2012 16:15

I am told some of them even write emails to our CEO etc saying that they are happy with their lot!
That really does surprise me, not one flexi pilot I know would consider themselves particularly happy with their lot. Maybe happy to be scraping together loan repayment money most months and actually be flying rather than unemployed. But happy enough to be writing glowing letters to the CEO - Who are these crazy people?!

Cheapshoes 24th Jul 2012 16:35

Ezy is indeed a very successful company but passenger figures as a comparative measure of success is just not credible. Also; "Past performance doesn't not guarantee future performance" or whatever the investment industry caveat emptor states. This is true of Monarch, and everyone else, too.

To those that join Monarch - welcome and I look forward to flying with you.

For those who have thrown their lot in with Ezy - I wish you all the best too...even the self righteous ones. :ok:

Sprinkles 24th Jul 2012 17:29

Two years ago I missed out on a Monarch interview because I was about 5 places too far down the CTC hold pool to be considered. :(

So when the likes of easyjet came along telling us that we'll (likely) be flying in excess of 750 hours a year and permanent UK jobs were in the negotiation process it did not seem too risky to go in as flexi-crew. At the time! Obviously things have changed significantly and looking back I think I made one of the worst decisions in my career. To which I now have to pay through my nose yet again to go. From what ever angle you look at it, CTC make so much money from a flexi-crew pilot it's shameful.

I'm praying that this next move is not something I'll regret this time next year. There were no other airlines recruiting at the time and no sign of them doing so in the future so it was a choice of going to an airline with crap T&C's but gaining experience, or going back to the office to do something I had no interest in doing and said office job would probably pay me no much more than what I would be expected to earn as a flexi-crew pilot. A very tough choice had to be made.

I've heard various rumours lately. This is a rumour network after all. Including the one CM is in early negotiations to leave and go to M&S. Ride the wave, get the share price as high as it will go, cash in and leave maybe? And permanent jobs on the continent will be almost non-existent next year so flexi-crew guys waiting for one maybe sorely disappointed.

Spoke to one other flexi-crew pilot recently who thought things will get better soon at eJ. I'm not so convinced. Another who frankly mocked me for making the decision to move. :{

Here's hoping things will get better for all.

OutsideCAS 24th Jul 2012 17:40

Anyone aware if Monarch have now finished recruting ?

I hear all about the poor flexi-crew now getting a chance to move somewhere better, would it be fair to assume that Monarch will not be looking at the folk that have not paid for their ratings, fought to work and build a handful of hours on much smaller aircraft ? fair to say they will be forgotten in the wake of the flexi-crew cadets ?

Fansfail 24th Jul 2012 17:48

Outiside CAS - I'm not sure where the recruitment dept are up to with this. Certainly non-TRd pilots are filtering through the system with some having been offered positions and others awaiting interviews in the next few weeks.

I'm sure someone said a while back that courses have been filled up until about April 13 so far. Can anyone confirm this?

fade to grey 24th Jul 2012 17:54

Monarch have ceased recruiting according to the website - inundated no doubt.
Meerkat - I have no angst towards Ezy at all. I just don't enjoy it as a passenger , having positioned numerous times in the past. If they just allocated a seat alot of the stress would evaporate.The crazy queues that form at the gate before it has even arrived......

I very much enjoyed going on flybe from LGW - NCL last year.Small plane allocated seat, enthusiastic staff.

greywind 24th Jul 2012 18:04

As far as I'm aware, Monarch never re-opened the online recruitment after the initial rush and are working through the applications received still.
Everyone I know who has had jobs / interviews didn't use the online system and I've yet to find someone who isn't still just "active application" on the online site.

I've also heard from someone at Monarch that courses up until April next year are being filled and there is an initial number of 90 FOs with some further on going recruitment planned after this - I can only assume that will be from the current pool of applicants.

mesh 24th Jul 2012 18:08

Still interviewing
Still interviewing, courses not filled upto April I doubt total number of courses even known yet by head shed. We have given places to type rated, military, turbo prop, CTC I am very pleased to confirm....

Robert G Mugabe 24th Jul 2012 19:28

I do not understand why Monarch are expanding into a market that is saturated.

Ryan and easyjet are aggressive with costs and competitors.

The public do not differentiate between the likes of easy,Ryanair,monarch or anyone else in Europe on the basis of quality of service. The predominant factors in the decision to fly are cost and convenience. That is where Ryan and easyjet models vary slightly and where Monarch is going to struggle when they try to establish new aircraft on new routes.

Good luck to those who got in.

OutsideCAS 24th Jul 2012 20:30

Thanks for the replies - was curious to know also if anyone had been sent a "PFO" at all, but appears not. I know of no-one either being binned as yet, so guess the waiting game continues :}

Alexander de Meerkat 25th Jul 2012 05:02

HPbleed - easyJet are replacing aircraft right now. They have a pile of brand new A320s rolling up and are using them to seamlessly replace their early A319s whilst keeping the total numbers around 204-ish. I am not sure that comparing Ford and Lamborghini products easyJet and Monarch is quite the distinction I would make personally, but there you go! Regarding load factors, I did not quote them because of the summer-oriented operation that Monarch run. I could not initially find the figures beyond March which is why I quoted that month. Having searched deeper into their website here are the last few months:

----------Monarch easyJet
Feb 12---87.17%----87.6%
Mar 12---87.7%-----88.8%
Apr 12----N/A-------89.3%
May 12--81.92%----88.0%
Jun 12---91.52%----89.9%

A very good set of results for both companies, and I would draw nothing from the 'better' figures of previous months that easyJet had. More revealing is that the passenger numbers for Monarch to achieve this steady 80-90% load factor is 626,185 in June but 179,215 in February. The equivalent easyJet figures were 5,434,763 and 3,976,741 respectively. In other words, Monarch hardly operate in the winter - which is a perfectly sound business plan for a bucket and spade company, but not one that easyJet could follow given their emphasis on non-leisure travel. The fascinating statistic is the 24% increase in passengers carried by Monarch compared with the previous year in June - at last they are starting to fight and indeed provide the opportunity to young pilots like yourself to escape the curse of orange living that has become so irksome. I have not the slightest doubt that you are enjoying it more than easyJet, and I can only regret we did not behave more sensibly in an attempt to keep good guys like yourself. Where we differ is whether or not the permanent contract issue can be won. I hugely regret that we did not fight it out this last round as we should have done. The fact is that we blew it, but we can still win it in the next year. I fully understand you and your colleagues need to sort out your immediate futures rather than wait for a change which may never happen - but I do believe it will if we man up for the fight. My issue is the long term future of the company, and only time will tell who was right and who was wrong - in my ideal world we would both be sat happy and delighted for a long time to come. Good luck to you and I hope it turns out to be all you hope it to be.

Sprinkles - I am really at a loss to see how you can think that turning up with 155 hours from CTC and then getting to fly an Airbus with easyJet is the worst career move you ever made. There are literally hundreds of young men and women who have shiny frozen ATPLs and would give their right arm to be in your position. It is a harsh reality that the saturation of the market with low-houred pilots has brought down terms and conditions. Most of your predecessors are guys who did instructor flying for 10/hour, air taxi work, turboprops, night freight etc before ever seeing the inside of a Boeing or an Airbus. You are incredibly fortunate to be able to now leave and get a job with Monarch, BA, Virgin, Cathay or Emirates - you are hardly in a bad position.

J320 25th Jul 2012 08:23

"I fully understand you and your colleagues need to sort out your immediate futures rather than wait for a change which may never happen."

There is the issue. The noises coming from Hanger 89 are painting an incredibly gloomy picture. Many of us do voice our opinions regarding the long term future of FlexiCrew and we are genuinely concerned about it. Some of us have been told to stop making noises as it is proving unpopular in the Hanger among our leaders. Some of the guys reaching the end of their three years have been told by some managers they will be kept on, told by other managers they may not and told by CTC there's no agreement yet. BALPA believe any fight is an incredibly long one and there is unlikely to be a safe immediate future for easyJet contractors. European contracts have dried up, there will be trickles of movement but nothing on the scale of previous years. There are rumours of incredibly large numbers being laid off this winter (and that is only a rumour). Hours in the summer have reduced massively with many of us flying circa 50 per month in the summer, very few standbys and lots of rest days resulting in extremely low annual salaries (when compared with last year).

Now we are as much to blame as anybody so whilst we have been lead up the garden path, I am not looking for sympathy, indeed I feel guilty. If one compares that situation with the opportunity Monarch provide it isn a no-brainer as to where the better contract is. Stable salary, leave, loyalty, pension, insurances and being treat like a professional pilot.

AdM I will not disagree that easyJet may be a safer place to be should there be more issues to hit the airline industry. Only, though, if one has a permanent contract.

Sprinkles 25th Jul 2012 08:43

AdM you're right my choice of words were not really very good. In fact I am very grateful for the experience I have gained knowing not many people get to do it. Especially with my hours after training. Alas this has been at a huge financial cost to me and there's no denying I have paid to get where I am. I'm not not proud or happy to have done it this way as 4 years ago cadets were taking on through merit and given perm UK jobs with the TR costs paid for through being bonded to the airline. Not so anymore. :(

Unfortunately the only way to stop cadets doing this now is to stand together as a whole. Cadets need to realise what problems lie ahead for them going down the flexi-crew path (something which I think is becoming more evident as time ticks away). In some respects I think we've all allowed this down grade in T&C's and something drastic needs to be done to stop the rot any further. I don't know what that is though. The only winners have been CTC and eJ.

Only when cadets categorically refuse to go into flexi-crew that the light at the end of the tunnel will appear. Sadly I don't think any guys will because as you say we are so eager for the opportunity many of us fail to see the damage it causes.

Apologies once again for choice of words. I am bloody grateful for my past years service and I'm looking forward to moving up the salary scale.

bigjarv 27th Jul 2012 00:26

Can anyone share what kind of staff travel Monarch provide for employees?

Wee Weasley Welshman 27th Jul 2012 06:44

Since when has CTC's fortunes been a concern of Easy pilots? Shame on you WWW, must rank as one of your more crass statements.

I said that flexi cadets leaving easyJet for other airlines was a win for CTC because it is. They get to sell another replacement unit from their huge stockpile. That point is neither crass nor shameful. It is true. The context was to make the point that nobody who matters is actually worried, concerned or bothered about flexi cadets leaving.

I have done more than most to point out both the tactical and strategic folly of Wannabes pursuing the CTC style path. Eventually I got bored being comprehensively ignored and being called miserable.

mesh 27th Jul 2012 08:36

Staff travel
A poorer area for us. Staff travel is not worth any effort and you can better deals with others unfortunately. The few things we have, 20% discount for friends and family, travel card that allows us to travel sby on Monarch flights(tax only to pay). 8 years service you get a free flight, once a year you get 85% Discount on a flight. A lot of flights in school hols are embargoed so you can't use discounts anyway....

kaikohe76 27th Jul 2012 08:50

Things appear to have changed a little over the years. When I got my first flying job in civil aviation, I was very pleased that the company chose to employ me & I was most grateful for that. The offer of `freebees` & other such like inducements, was a little further down my list. O well, times have changed some what apparently.

Callsign Kilo 27th Jul 2012 08:54

Post by WWW
You can talk until you're blue in the face. It's completely futile. There are hoards of wannabes willing to partake in such schemes and I guess until people are physically unable to access capital, then there always will be. The two largest lo-costs (EZY & FR) show massive comparisons. Poorly remunerated contracts, temporary basing, over-crewing of FOs and henceforth a decline in rostered hours. More seasonal operations and a reduction in growth has shown that prospects down the line (time to command, training positions, permanent contracts) are now dwindling.

This is FACTUAL and if those with the cheque books burning a hole in their pockets stopped for a moment then they would possibly avoid the predicament that they are going to be faced with. If you are banking on the fact that either A) you'll get a few hours and jump ship to the likes of BA, MON or one of the Middle Eastern carriers or B) things will pick up and all this is just a blip then I'd say you'd be faced with the roughly the same odds as becoming one of the hundred millionaires in the UK lottery draw this evening. A few will be lucky but the vast majority will not.

As much as this is a thread dedicated to Monarch and those fortuitous enough to join, it should be used as an example to those eager to join the likes of EZY or FR as cadets. However I'm more than prepared for it to be comprehensively ignored and much like WWW, be accused of being a miserable barsteward.

Buzz Lightyear 27th Jul 2012 10:57

I've been with Monarch about 22 years now and praise my lucky stars every day so to be.

They're not perfect, in fact I've had a good old gripe recently about the omnishambles that is our IT strategy... but nonetheless, a fantastic employer
who I hope will be around for another 40 odd years. And, if Lugano has the inclination, will be as they could fund the airline out of what they lose down the back of the sofa. (ps all you negatives out there who will dive in to say that the family want out please tell me how you have a window on the collective mind of the Mantegazza family)

Pilot wages and costs are a significant factor, but nothing compared to the interaction of the cost of oil and its hedging/ currency exchange rates and interest rates.. get that right, be efficient, and you can compete with anyone.

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