I thought that was the reason for taking extra fuel.

737Jock

Actually it's very unlikely BA's recruitment has anything to do with next years Olympic games.

BA has neither the space, nor slots to engineer that sort of growth for a one of event.
The recuitment is for capacity growth and new aircraft, which don't really figure in the plan till 2013,

We'll see... I don't understand your argument however; you say it is impossible to grow in 2012 due to slots but in 2013 there will be capacity expansion??? What about that slot problem.... where will they put those new aircraft?

In my view the london airports will squeeze out as much capacity as they can for the olympics. How will all those people get to london otherwise???

Doesn't really change anything though, growth plans are very easily changed into fleet freeze or even downsizing if the economy suffers bad enough.

Personally I don't see any reason for capacity increase in the UK after the olympics if this economic crisis continues, certainly not for the prices BA is asking.

It's often pretty obvious!

Yep thats why new ***captains find ***FO's on their roster at roster publication, only to find out that when the date approaches they have just completed their 100 hours of line experience that is required to loose the stars.

So now we have a 400 hr guy sitting next to a 3500hr captain. Still a sub 4000hrs total experience in the flightdeck.

And that can happen 5 days in a row!!! I don't see how this mitigates against the effects of inexperience combined with fatigue arrising due to this inexperience.

There's no doubt that flying as or with inexperienced crew adds to fatigue, but then so does flying a week of earlies in apalling winter weather conditions. We can plan and cope with both these eventualities by being well rested prior to duty or, if this is not possible, calling in "fatigued". We're all grown ups after all, aren't we?

Nighstop, Seriously?

What department of H89 are you in then?

No nightstop there is a very big difference.

Recruiting solely inexperienced FO's and determining the 100hr limit for inexperienced/experienced is a positive decision and thus avoidable, **** weather isn't a decision it just happens.

Would you fly an approach with a known thunderstorm over the field with windshear? Cause there are warning systems and after all you can always go-around like a grown-up?

Don't answer that....

But lets combine those 5 days of winter weather with 5 days of inexperienced flightcrew and on top of that an FO under financial pressure as he is paid by the hour in the low season. How do we mitigate against that???

I see two factors in there that can be changed by policy, only the weather is a fact.

Nightstop,

Have you been "single crew" recently with a two striper?

Well I have and I can tell you it's not very nice.
The 'adrenalin pump' took care of the fatigue issue.But if it had stopped (and it does happen) I doubt if a recovery by two striper would have been successful.

Trainers have expressed concern about experience levels through their management...but they say nothing is being done.

And as most guys coming in aspire to BA and are in any case employed by other companies....the situation will change slowly if at all.

Threat Error Management anyone??

I think you guys are doing a diservice to the 2 stripers. 99% of them are fully capable and all are well trained to take over from old codgers (or anyone else) like me if I kick the bucket, despite their lack of experience. Indeed, didn't one such lad not so long ago do just that (and very well) when his Skipper expired? I've no problem working with these new cygnets, but maybe my 24,000 hours puts a different perspective on the issue. Cast your minds back to when you were wet-behind-the-ears with just a few hundred hours, I remember it well and thanked the Captain's I flew with for being so patient & understanding and for passing on valuable tips & advice, even though they weren't Trainers...maybe you should consider adopting this mindset too and give these guys/girls a chance to reach your standard?

Thanks, Nightstop. If only those feelings were shared by everyone. Regards... a "2-striper"...

Nightstop,

I think you are right and one of the reason why so many captains seems to be so hard on these 2 stripes poor guys is maybe because now they become captain after 5 years and are a lot younger and so less patient and understanding than their older fellow captain. like you...

You have 24000 Hrs many captain I flew with had barely 4000 Hrs total or so...
Most of them only flew one aircraft type and not various types in various continents which , I think , reduces their experience.

As someone who might be out of work soon (airbus UK charter) it seems there are still options to get into easyJet via Parc or CTC via their flexiscrew deal. Whilst it's not something I'd do lightly due to the terms and conditions I do however need to work and there doesn't seem too much else out there at the moment.

Can I ask if anyone knows someone who has joined recently with a bus rating and hours on type? I keep asking both parties for details of bonding arrangements, if there are any at all, and the silence is deafening!

Thanks in advance

Hi djfingerscrossed. A freind of mine went via CTC as flexi-crew (was a BMI pilot). He was not bonded as he was already an A320 pilot.

Have to agree with Nightstop! The vast majority of cadets I fly with are personable and capable for their experience level!! We have very robust SOP's and although at times some need more help I too was a newbie at one point! Overall, having been here for a decade the company has went through many changes but for me personally it's a great gig if u r outside of London, the money and days off are good and on the whole with good crew both up front and down the back. It's not for everyone but I haven't seen anything better, certainly not in Europe anyhow!


Tin hat on !!

737Jock

As this is an Easyjet recruitment thread I wont bore anybody with the fine details, but capacity growth comes from 380 and 787 being larger than the aircraft they replace. There is also a greater mix of longhaul to shorthaul flying requiring more crews. After that we're into retiree's.

Recruiting 800 pilots over 5 years is not for the olympics lasting just a few weeks.

Anyway that was last weeks plan. The worlds economy might, and probably will, implode some time soon.:ouch:

Goosemaverick - thank you very much sir.

I'm just wondering why they (Parc and CTC) haven't been more forthcoming with details. No doubt they're making quite a bit of cash from having people contracting through them. Have to wait and see what happens in charter land first

Wow how good a pilot are you binder? Easyjet must feel very lucky to have you......not. If you weren't whinging about 2 stripers you'd be whinging about something else that you feel superior over. If you need to say it, it's probably not true.

When I was wet behind the ears I wasn't flying big jets.

Like so many others I worked my way up through instructing, IR, Turbo prop FO/ Command, Easy 737 and now Easy bus. Unpopular as it may be my opinion is that the "old" way gave a very good grounding almost like an aprenticeship in aviation before climbing anywhere near a big jet.

No one is doing individual 2 stripers a disservice, it is the sheer number of them combined with a lowering of experience in the LHS that is the problem, combined with the amount of work we do it is far from ideal. Low hours cadets have always been around, but in the old days they represented a very small percentage of pilots mainly in BA that were released into a pool of vastly more experienced pilots.

Having done training in the past I am more than capable of, and do on a regular basis, pass on guidance to my FO's, however on many occasions it is more like training, with 2 Toga 10's to my credit in the last 12 months at LGW and many days of feeling on my own when things are going a bit tilt that I know the balance has gone too far. If I wanted to be a trainer, then there was a NTC out recently asking for applicants. There is a difference between coaching and training, and many days are too much like training and single pilot. I am concerned that my actions are not being crosschecked enough, because I am the Captain, therefore I must be right? Wrong! Its a two crew operation for a reason and it is not always that way in EasyJet right now when it goes wrong. That is not to say that is always the case, I personally have had written comments placed in two cadets training files because they were very much outstanding, and it was a pleasure to do so, however they are very much in the minority on my roster!

Black & Brown,

Your comments are somewhat 'off beam' and frankly stupid.

What I said is accurate and a view shared by many colleagues on the line. This was just one event that could have had a different outcome.

Have a look at ezydriver's post; Completely agree. The pendulum has swung too far.

Superior? Moi? Come off it! The cadets are great folks with things to teach me too. And with over thirty years flying experience I am always keen to help develop others in the same way that my 'superiors' did when I was serving my 'apprenticeship'.