The 45K is a complete red herring. As a TRE on a UK contract my P60 was @£120K, most LTCs and line Capts are nudging £90 to £100K and if you work a few days off you can boost your pay significantly.

Remember FR is a productivity based airline ie low basic but high rewards for being at work so high sector pay.

There is one big advantage is that you only pay higher rate tax on a small basic.

Disadvantage is my Final Salary pension which I am lucky to be in (closed in 2000) is based only on my salary not my overall earnings.

Other disadvantage is no fly = very little pay. However FR know this so try to ensure flying hours are kept high. Other wise every would leave.

Can only speak for myself but FR has over 2500 pilots. We cant all be deluded and most wouldnt be here if the money was only £45K. I wouldnt am worth a hell of alot more than that....

Say Mach Number,

Your "I'm alright jack" reply typifies the sort of selfish narrow minded individuals we now have many examples of in Ryanair.

And working days off ?!!! If you and your colleagues continue to bail the company out of the sh1t due to their inability to crew / roster flights to the correct level, you are only making things worse.

Maybe you're another "boy wonder" (as per the Ryanair recruitment web page) who is only twenty something years old, and became a TRE after 500 hours in command or something ridiculous like that. But tell me this, what are your terms and conditions going to be like in 25 years time I wonder ?

It's all me, me , me .....


:ugh:

@ Say Mach Number

There are guys being offered this £45k, thats what the theme is.

FT

(and No, I'm not a commercial Pilot. Yet!)

Come on guys, either you have not read the rest of the thread or you are just determined not to see the facts. The 45,000 is only part of the payment. There is a substantial amount of additional pay based on hours flown. A typical Ryanair captain probably earns nearly twice this. Most importantly if he is any good and wants to, he has been able to do this after only three years as a copilot.

Of course there are caveats and yes things are not improving. But in reality there is the opportunity to make a very good living. Beating up on people and making personal attacks because they present a different view is out of order.

Aldente,

if you dont like the pay,leave! And do like the rest of us who go where the $ is.
But blaming a colleague for your supposely low income because he accepts to work extra days shows you are indeed a sad man.

Guys, the Captains basic salary in Euroland (or Spain at least) has been 60,000 Euros for as long as I can remember. This is not new news!! What is new is the exchange rate to sterling, but I think you'll find it fluctuates.
Add 5,000 to this (in the form of the allowance) and 23,000ish for 800 hours flying and overall, that's not too shabby. Particularly bearing in mind that you'll be taxed on 65,000 of it rather than the whole lot. Cash wise, assuming you do the hours then it's not too bad. Obviously get sick for any length of time and the situation changes - but that's how it's been in FR forever.
The issue mainly is the 10% cut for your first year, the 10% cut if you change base, total lack of benefits of any kind, the lack of a transparent basing policy and the fact that for many they can't just upsticks and move to a foreign country with wife and kids in tow and so have to support two homes. Then try and get back from Southern Spain on a 5/3 roster. There are many other issues with the FR Command than just the money side of things. It's for those issues that most are looking to jump ship. One of the main things that BA, for example, can offer is a stability of lifestyle. Gain a promotion there and you wont suddenly find yourself 2000 miles from home - it makes it an attractive option in the long run.
FR just need to make a few changes that wont really cost them a penny and they can slow, they'll never stop it, but they can slow the rate at which people are walking out the door.
But, they wont. :(

Aldente - Not sure which part of my post suggests the 'I'm alright Jack' response. Have been in FR longer than most and what I said are the facts no more no less.

Have worked my way through the ranks. Have worked bloody hard and have not recieved any favours or a leg up from anyone. By the way thats one advantage of no seniority in FR. Now before the seniority debate starts I am not against it. In fact having a seniority number has helped me in the past in a previous situation.

As for days off. I have not worked a day off in probably six or seven years.

Probably because I dont need the money because the money is good enough which sort of kills off this only £45K arguement. Which is want most FR guys are saying in this thread.

Ps dont forget when the guys are quoting all the allowances and sector pay figures they are quoting net. To get a real fiigure you need to add another 40% to gross it up.

great post

Newly promoted Captain on permanent euro contract= 5500€/month net considering 75 hours/month.
Subtract some sort of private pension,healthcare,LOL and you come up with one of the lowest salaries in the western industry.
Newly hired DEC's on mcnamara BRK contract= 5500 up to 6000€/month net considering 75 hours/month.
Again one of the worst contracts around.

Yeah sure if one doesn't like it he's free to go and that's what many are doing and many more will do as soon as something slightly better comes up.
Not to mention what will happen in a year or so when the old BRK contracts are over for about 700 Captains......

What a load of BS. I took home 102.000 last year. so what if I spent £30 on Two pairs of trousers and a pair of shoes. I also spent £325 on a nice new hand made Italian flight case, Am I bothered ....No!!!!!!! . My jacket is now 9 years old and still in good condition. have fun....

Ok lets look at this for a moment:

5500€/month net = £4,600 / month net

On a standard UK tax rate the pre-tax income required to achieve £4,600 Net per month is £83,000 Gross per year!
(Check it for yourself on this link)

Two points to make:
1) This is £38,000 a year more than the £45,000 this thread is going on about.
2) I can tell you, this is definitely NOT the lowest salary in the western industry.

5500/6000€ is the NET income of a european based permanent skipper, taxes paid in ireland.
5500/6000€ is the net income of a skipper with the new BRK/macnamara contract.
In both cases there is no pension,LOL,medical included.
In the case of BRK guys there are not even tickets for family nor a basic salary in case their base is closed and they are forcefully relocated to another one and not flying for a few weeks.
If you consider the above is for the most productive pilots in the industry (900+hours a year, 25mins turnarounds, walk under the rain to/from the aircraft,pay for your ID,buy your uniform,pay for medical,pay for water and food,pay for sim,pay for type rating,pay for hotel) you can clearly see that the package is one of the poorest in the western world.
Even Skyeurope guys in the east were treated better.

Just remind us what happened to Skyeurope

Sure aerobat: they went bankrupt just like other outfits because , amongst other factors, they had to compete with companies that dodge tax, don't give any benefits, treat their employees like objects, bully anyone who raises their head in disagreement and keep lowering t&c's year by year while putting others out of business.
Now you remind us what happened to Europe when Nazi Germany was allowed to do what they did.

Nazi germany has no relevance in a thread about Ryanair pay so I have no intention of rising to that. I am a Ryanair ( not Brookfield ) Captain though and am quite well aware of the companies shortcomings and also the fact that a lot of rubbish is quoted here by people that do not work for the company. :)

So you are also well aware of the fact that my numbers are correct since you work here.
Also well aware of the other shortcomings I have mentioned.
A little imnsginatipn on your side would have you think about my metaphor instead of bluntly avoiding it.
It's a race to the bottom that we are allowing to happen.

Interesting point dannyalliga! Hmmm let's see, a race to the bottom whilst everybody is looking the other way because they think it's in the interest of the greater good or are easily intimidated to make a stand... Where have we seen that before...? :hmm:
Well, aren't you easily indoctrinated?! Enjoy your future bus driver's salary and T&C's! ;)

Okay everybody, just keep on saying "Jawohl!!" to your corporate masters and then everything will be alright and the company won't go bankrupt! :D

About a year ago Ryanair pilots decided to reject BALPA's advances in the face of outrageous threats from their management. It should come as no surprise to anyone that their Captains are being stuffed from a great height by an immoral and treacherous management. It was within the Ryanair pilots' power to change their lot and they rejected that opportunity. It should come as no surprise to them that the excesses being quoted here are coming to pass. I wish them nothing but good, whilst feeling a sense of deep frustration on their behalf that things could be so much better if they had chosen more wisely.

The only real difference between Ryanair and easyJet is the presence of BALPA. As others will rightly say, things are far from perfect at easyJet and there is much to fight for. Nonetheless, we are in a position where we can fight and have a degree of corporate cohesion as a pilot body which appears to be lacking at Ryanair. That is not to knock any Ryanair pilot, but to make an observation that no man is an island - we will all do so much better together, with all the tensions that brings, rather than facing the battle as individuals where we can just be picked off.

As a pro BALPA supporter I can't agree anymore but what hope do we have when BALPA can't prevent such methods in EZY? How can we trust a union when they let the very same thing happen in other airlines?

When BALPA started I was very optimistic about their chances and the sense of revolution was there, everyone was excited but sadly they had the wrong man for the job. The guy running the campaign just basically didn't know what hit him when RYR responded. He tried to be nice and professional to the biggest baddest bully on the block and was torn to shreads. If BALPA want to attack RYR they need to be a lot more aggressive and have a very strong person that takes no **** in charge.

Although this must come after BALPA prooves their worth and right now they're not, based on EZYs flexiscrew contract. Right now BALPA has lost my confidence. What we need is another union of choice and RMT get my vote.

McBruce,

My sentiments exactly regarding BALPA.
Out of curiosity could anyone tell me the Captains basic (without allowance, sector pay average etc) in Leeds Bradford, East Midlands and Birmingham?
PM's would be very welcome if you don't want to flame this debate anymore.