You are all reaping what you sowed and by agreeing to every degrading terms, are owed everything that you get.

Sorry, but fact.

And you are encouraging the situation by sitting there and doing nothing. What are the cadets supposed to do? If they turn the "offer" down, another one will jump in his/her shoes. Instead it should be current Captains (and FO's) pulling their finger out and join TOGETHER with the cadets to try and improve the terms by taking action.

Making sarcy comments on prune helps no-one.

Very soon you will be reaping what you haven't sown.

Fact.

I haven't every paid for a TR and I don't fly for a bunch of thieves.

Everyone should take a stand, because it puts mud on everyone's shoes. But in answer to your question, no, you shouldn't take it and I have done my bit by not working for them. Let the other mug take it and work your way up the hard way. Why should you go straight from OAT / CTC to an Airbus?
A few years old school will do you all good and give the 3000 hr pilots a career too.

It's called BALPA and many cadets can't join easyJet's Balpa because they are not employed by easyJet.

Lots of us pay our subs each month to try and help protect you the new joiner so wind your neck in.

This divide and conquer bo**ocks was all in the Roland Berger report from 2007 with many senior pilots advising FO's and SFO to dust off their CV's. This is now happening with the up-turn in airline recruitment hence the influx of cadets to cover the movement of FO's/SFO's and command upgrades.

Talk about dilution of experience!

I recently flew with our head of Balpa and proof read their presentation they are shortly to give the company. To say that they are worried about these cadet issues would be an understatement.

As a Training Captain at eJ I too am worried. There is no doubt that standards have been lowered to keep the tap turned on and the quality of trainee is not what it was. Of course there are still some good ones but there are also an increasing number who are quite clearly square pegs in round holes who have little feel or aptitude for the job. They should be nowhere near the flight deck of an airliner. The retraining bill at eJ will go up. The failure rate will also go up because one thing you can be sure of is that those of us who have to sign off these lads and lassies to fly on the line will not drop our standards. It's just a question of how many times the eJ training managers will be prepared to mount the remedial simulator packages and provide the extra line training necessary to get this increasing number up to an acceptable standard.

That still leaves me, as a trainer, with a recurring nightmare. The one in which a brand new CTC cadet who just scraped through is flying with an experienced older captain. The captain suffers a heart attack (it does happen) and the lad/lassie finds him/herself alone approaching an unfamiliar destination with significant terrain, marginal weather and few options.

I know what I'd do to head trouble off at the pass. But then, I'm not a training manager with a Ops Director and commercial department breathing down my neck.

Wingswinger, I can just say from a line pilots perspective that i hope by all of my hearth, that you trainers don't let yourself squeeze by managers to let people through the system that don't belong there.

It has happened in the past, and now the ball is in the trainers basket again (where it shouldn't really be if selection had been done the right way by the right people), so i hope the whole training department is fully aware of the responsibility they are having upon them.

Normally you guys are, but top management is not exactly focusing on helping the flying community these days :ugh:

Before we start feeling sorry for those new cadets lets just state facts and not opinions.
1. On an average month these lads and lassies are earning about 2.5k-3.5k after tax. A lot of these guys who are moaning as they are working hard are taking home 4.5k after tax!!!
2. They are getting permanent contracts after 2 seasons, if based in Europe the F/O salaries are almost on par with UK captain’s salary (which is upsetting the UK skippers at the min, understandably so)!
3. The charters have more often than not only offered summer only contracts so whets the difference.
4. What about the poor turbo prop guys only taking home 2k a month if there lucky!!
5. Yes over the past year there as been a mass recruitment not only from CTC but oxford/Parc/ATP and when you recruit mass numbers like 200 plus than the law of averages will say you will have one or two more failures than when you recruit in smaller numbers.
6. We are Pilots therefore we will never be happy and we believe the grass is always greener!!

After their FRV ''random'' roster of 5/2/5/2/5/2/5/2/5/2/5/2 these figures do not surprise me.

Hence BALPA's concern.

I would hope Easyjet would open up and allow for direct applications rather than via CTC or Oxford Cadets on the Parc deal for those of us who have some experience, not always on type or jets.

What about equal opportunties for direct applications and job advertisments, it almost seems illegal that you have go via CTC as a cadet / ATP or Oxford schemes.

I am personally frustrated like many others that have trained either modular or at integrated schools that these organisations (CTC / Oxford), become a road block for us to start our careers or move into once we have gained some proper experience at this end of the market.

BALPA should be challenging these schemes, organisations and if possible pointing out pilot positions or job advertisements should be advertised for equal opportunties as some of it must have some legalities for those pilot cadets or less experienced to be able to apply direct to organisations such as Easyjet in court if their were good legal grounds.

Separately, one would also assume if you are a contract pilot to Easyjet or Ryanair, gaining a roster and having clauses of not flying for others in your contract to get your 900 hours. You would be deemed an employee in a court of law if challenged.

This is the only profession I know of where you are expected to pay a large sum of money for type training to gain employment and work on a companies aircraft. You would not get that in other large industries put on the employee.

They do NOT.

Let's put this one to rest right away shall we. European contracts were issued when the pound was much higher than it is now. This explains almost all the difference in pay. Sure, if I converted my salary to pounds it would almost equate to a UK captain's salary. But I don't spend in pounds. I don't live in the UK. I'm sure no one will complain when the pound creeps back up. Then we'll see the brits which have invaded Paris applying to go back to the uk.:ugh:I'm starting to be really pissed off about what appears to be pure jealousy :mad:

ZBMAN
Number 1 is fact i was a flexi crew FO last year and a few months i earned this working my ass off in LGW.

And number 2, yes you are correct as it stands at the current Euro to pound conversion rate the Pay in Europe is on par almost with a UK captain but of course the rate can change but half of these guys commute back to the UK on days off so they spend it back home. So there taking home 80K a year and communting home. I believe there will be people transfering back to the UK when/if conversion rates change dramatically.

The figures quoted by Captain Spam Can are essentially correct. I always ask any cadets I fly with what they take home, and I would concur that the figures quoted are pretty accurate. There is, however, one major difficulty with the whole cadet issue - security of tenure. What these guys want more than money is a permanent job, and from the day they join easyJet they are sat there trying to get a 'proper' job with anyone who will give them it. The craziness of our cadet schemes is that they are actually quite expensive and we could employ them so much easier as permanent employees from day one. That way we could give them the reduced initial salaries which saves the company money but they know they have a job - win, win for us all. The cadet employment practices are a disgrace and there is now an opportunity available to deal with in. I trust we will not let the moment pass.

sorry mate but once again what you are telling us is bullsh1t. The cost of living is higher in the UK than at ORY or Strasbourg. The euro/sterling double scale is purely unfair to eJ pilots.

Hi guys,

I need your advice as Im planning a career move.

I am presently flying in Middle East for one of the carriers here but missing european lifestyle.

Around 2000h on A320, which is the best way to join Easy right now? I guess the best option for me at the moment is Easy Swiss but then, between Parc or CTC contract which one do you recommend? Options to get a permanent contract?Command upgrade path and years?

All kind of tips and advice will be highly appreciated as its a tough decision to make.

Many thans in advance and regards!

Well said Turbine100.

VFE.

Spot on, I'll repeat what I've said previously. Ageism is illegal in this country. But that's not an obstacle to get cheap labour. Not when you only hire via a scheme which BY DESIGN rules out anyone older than the age of 28-29!

Young pilots = eager pilots = willing to accept whatever is on the table.

If CTC were to provide stats on the last 200 pilots employed by EZ, what would would the graph representing them look like? Face it, ageism is alive and well at the low cost carriers.

Figures quoted for flexicrew pilots are incorrect. Some months may be that much, but averaged, considering we can only fly 900 hours MAXIMUM a year, on £43 an hour = £38700. After tax, paying student loan as well this equals £2200 a month. Minus £1000 (minimum) loan repayment = £1200. Add on a couple of standbys a month at £150 a time and you may just get £1400 after tax.

Please note this is average, yes the guys you've spoken to may get more throughout the summer, but it's got to average out somewhere, so just wait for those months where you only get 40 hours.

As an SFO on the Flexicrew you take £58 per hour. This works out at £2800 a month + standbys.

Also, we have to pay for our own medicals, own LOL and term insurance, own uniform and only get £20 for a nightstop - which just about pays for a beer in CDG.

The numbers are different, again, for Parc guys.. so there is certainly no fixed figured for what flexi are earning!

Having been on the Flexicrew contract since its inception, I have to disagree with the above figures. The minimum take home I have had is £2350 and that was with a weeks sick. I found the majority of months the take home to be between 3-4k, in fact my highest take home was £4800. I would work 80-90hrs per month most months with 3-4 standby's. Then have a few months with 50-60 hours usually with around 9-10 standby's.

Yes 900 x 43 =38700, but add to that 4-5 standby's a month (7-9k pa) and 28 days leave at approx £230/day, plus sim and sep payments. Student loan and training loan repayments are irrelevant as they would be repayable in any case. The money isn't that bad in a general case, it is the atrocious rostering, lack of security or protection that make you question whether it is all worthwhile.

Sim and SEP payments? What are those? I haven't received them. I was told we do not receive any night stop allowance for training nights away either.