Validation Pilots put Icelandair and Jar pilots out work
 

Why should a company employ NON JAR pilots on validations while JAR rated pilots sit at home no money!!!! Why.

santa barbara airline have 2 JAR registered B767 dry least from smartlynx. Canadian/mauritius fleet cheif has no jar license ONLY a canadian license with a validation that is more than 3 years old!! also two other american on same deal! ICELANDAIR own smartlynx and have many of it's pilots sitting at home unemployed! how and why can this happen?

also there is a growing voice in santa barbara because our pilots now rescent this. we also have spanish and italian friends that have JAR license also no work.

STOP STOP this. can a JAR pilot work in canada or america? No Never!!:mad:
icelandair union stand up on your feet

Actually, wrong. JAR-Pilots can and do work in Canada every winter. They do get some transition training and a validation and then just fly the holiday charter stuff.

The USA of course is a different thing alltogether and not a level playing field, never has been, never will.

Denti NO you are wrong.

you are thinking a bilateral agreement between two airlines to relieve crew sortage between on and off season in different countries.. That is what a validation is used for.

if a pilot works in canada then they must convert to a canadian license otherwise everybody would just fly everywhere

Denti if other pilots comes to your country and work with in appropriate licence i am very sure you would be the first to make complaints!!!!

why would you suggest this is ok? :\

Validation v right to work
 

I think you all have this a bit wrong. A validation is not what you make it appear to be, a work permit. There are validation conditions that are set forth in JAR/EASA FCL and immigration legalities are not one of them.

Amy EU-Citizens still today hold another licence other than JAA ATPL. Reasons are many, but the fact remains that they are eligible for work should they meet the "Validation conditions" of FCL , the company they have applied to are willing to do this and the respective CAA approves.

Issue Paco brings up is an immigration matter not a licencing issue. But since it is difficult to control pilots working illegally, perhaps it is time to amend the validation conditons to require " Right to work"?

A non-EU citizen working for an EU company while EU-Citizens get sent home to unemployment is the issue. Iceland is part of Schengen-agreement though not part of EU. And while Smartlynx is part of the Icelandair group, Icelanders regardless of their contractual agreements with the parent company do NOT take precedence to existing employees or rather contractors other then those that are not from Schengen or EU-countries or have been employed later.

I have no problems for people, pilots or not, working in EU or any other country, but one should have the required permits. One does not go and fly in China without these so why should Europe be any different. I admit that our immigration is overwhelmed with 3rd world immigrants so foreign pilots seem to slip throught the net.

A few years back Latcharter or today Smartlynx decided to contract a large amount of Canadian and American pilots to be based in LGW (Gatwick) on a Virgin Nigeria contract. None had UK work visas or right to abode in Europe. Though flying between UK and Nigeria spending large parts of off time in UK and having been based there while working for a JAROPS 1 operator from another EU country would have certainly required these individuals to be in posession either or both the UK workpermit and or Schengen residence permit.

Hope this clears up the issue a bit.

Hola paco59 . . . is there some kind of magic about flying with a "JAR" license?

You are concerned about non-JAR pilots putting euro pilots out of work?

Actually, there are lots of jobs available for current and qualified "JAR" pilots in the desert, in asia, including Korea, China, Vietnam. . .

But some of the well qualified, unemployed euro boys have become very unhappy campers living and flying in 3RD world countries.

The euro boys are coming into the desert and into asia with too much baggage: Obnoxious egos; escalating expectations and demands.

The euro culture of entitlement is not condusive to working as guest workers on foreign turf, nor working as second class citizens in the sand box.

:eek:

A validation only allows one to fly an aircraft of registry in the country in question as long as they have their airman certificate, and medical in their possession from their "home country".

A validation does not allow one to earn Euro one in any state/country unless said individual has in their possession a valid work visa/permit to which a job is sought after.

I had to obtain a Brazilian Validation to ferry an airplane from Texas to Rio about 20 years ago. The ferry company was based in the US, thus no work visa/permit was required.

I was inconvenienced:E with a trip to Rio, on the company's nickel. It was terrible... the beaches... the food... the beer... and....er hem... I'll spare you the details. Anyway... had to take the medical, and visit the DGCA to get the validation. As I recall, no written exams were required.

I did have to provide verification that I was employed by a US company and was not going to be paid cruzeros before the validation was issued.

747JJ is right on the ball.
 

747JJ is correct in all aspect.
However do not forget that it up to the country in this case Iceland or Latvia to issue validations or not. If they are braking any EU rules I do not know. I have heard with EASA that the issuing of validations should end next year. I do know pilots who just had their validations renewed for 1 year i.e. until october 2010. The Icelandic pilot union had tihis case presented to EFTA and the Icelandic official there kept loosing the paperwork and asking for more until the case died in their hands. Also the icelandic ministry of employment has been told to answer the issue by the Ombudsman for the Parliament.
The ministry keeps ignoring it. This is an Icelandic inhouse problem due to corruption in the goverment. However do not forget that the canadians opened up temporarily to icelandic qualified people (Not pilots though) in the crisis since they need laborers in some fields. It cannot be ignored that in some countries airlines are allowed under certain circumstances to hire people with know how like when airlines are starting new types of fleet or other startups to bring in people on temporary basis. I remember meeting Boeing employees training B747-400 startup for a EU carrier in Luxemboug.
Once the training is done they go home. As I understand this issue was raised with the EALPA and has gone nowhere. Caledonean later Flying Colours and later Thompson hired US pilots in 1999. Australian pilots came to EU after being locked out (Most went to Asian carriers). If the carriers find a loophole they will use it. Like BA is trying to do with AA. If they get away with it is another issue.

I have a validation..I fly a JAR reg'd aircraft......oh, wait, I also have an EU passport.
Why do I have a validation again??




Hey GlueBall,

you can't make that count; it's part of the basic training!!


"The euro boys are coming into the desert and into asia with too much baggage: Obnoxious egos"

747JJ
..in this case Iceland or Latvia to issue validations or not.

Latvia have issued these validations for the 3rd year!!! If Icelandair own smartlynx/latcharter and with icelandair pilots sitting at home unemployed why does the company allow this!!! I do not understand!? why not icelandair just tell latvia to withdraw the validations and employ icelandair pilots....crazy people or very very weak icelandair pilot union...

my colleague just operate a flight from madrid to caracas with canadian PG he was saying impossible to remove him because he has to much influence in smartlynx and he not care about icelandair pilots sitting at home. :mad:

Rafael767...


Are you referring to the individual as a fleet manager... or chief pilot?

If he is the fleet manager, I can't believe the company or you local avation inspectors would allow him to be in suc a position.

If he is the chief pilot, he only needs to be type on one of the aircraft types that is in your fleet compliment. If you only have 767s, then a type rating is required.

Not withstanding the fact that this guy is not the most popular guy on the property... are the statements fact, or are they heresay??? just out of curiousity.

ICAO level 4 English
 

Its a good thing all professional pilots must be able to pass the level 4 ICAO English test. That way when someone is posting with absolutely horrible English I can surmise that it is a non-pilot posting. Right???

Before you start flaming, I am not a native English speaker. I couldn't say more than milk, bread and beer when I was 16. (And very often beer came out as bear).

DA50Driver,

Why would you decide to write about my English? You should have a look at your grammar!? I speak Four, Yes 4 Languages. So, Please write something regarding this thread. Or spend some time with your wife and Kids!! As, I can see you have over 100 posts!!

This problem of the three Non JAR pilots will soon be fixed. The Icelandair pilots will remove the Mauritius/Canadian and other two pilots very soon. Seems like the unemployed icelandair pilots didn't know that the 3 Smartlynx pilots did not have a NON JAR license and were using very old validations.

Also, With the steady stream of complaints about the Smartlynx Mauritius Fleet Chief. Who continues to knock the working practices of the Icelnadair pilots!! (Not in front of their faces.) Makes it easy to remove him.

When Smartlynx simply finished the 767 pilots without notice and termination pay. This PG Fleet Chief did absolutely nothing?!! More to the fact he was instrumental in making his bed in SB airlines because he knew the Smartlynx plan of finishing the 767 pilots long before it actually happened.

So lets see if he can now find a job amongst all the people he has hurt.. pi**** on in the past!!

WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND:D

Guys ,
The point being missed is that the aforementioned PG has not been much more than 5-6 years in the left hand seat. If he has at any time completed a formal TRI course that he has claimed needs to be questioned by the Latvian CAA. His training qualification might poss be nothing more than Parker 57 flight time so to speak. You guys at SB need to ask some serious questions. I agree with a previous poster "What goes around comes around". His arrogance has blinded him to the realities of the present situation.
:=

Here at SB Airlines we are proud of our standards. This is why we are asking serious questions about this smartlynx fleet chief. We have found out that he has NEVER completed any form of instructional training! And yes he has only been a Captain for 5 years. AAI made him into a captain. He constantly gives the impression that he was a captain for many years 12 or so. He informs the junior 767 captains (who he is line training now) that he was made a captain with Air Mauritius. This however was not the case!! His integrity is very low or nothing.

I and my colleagues here at SB airline enjoy the Icelandair training pilots approach and professionalism. It is therefore so annoying that some of or many of them still sit at home unemployed. whilst 3 NON JAR pilots work here. The 3 smartlynx pilot consist of one PG who we have talked about also another pilot from south america whom ONLY got made to captain 1 1/2 years ago, who also has never had any training experience or instructional experience. BUT what is so terrible this guy has never flown ETOPS prior to this SB contract and yet (He was given 2 sectors by PG on ETOPS)he now teaches the ETOPS here!!! and finally the American Pilot also NON JAR is retired and collects a pension from his American airline whiles other European/smartlynx pilots are unemployed.

If they are not removed soon (if the icelandair union doesnot remove them) then we here at SB airline will take action.

WE ARE NOT HAPPY

Pilots taking action.
 

What bullsh*t.
What will happen is more backstabbing, cheating, lying, and nefarious double dealing to try to get into pole position up the colon of the nearest boss.
As it has always been, and always will.

l had to keep checking the posted date to make sure these are 2009 !

Rafael767 & paco 59,

Im surprised you have a problem with the Argentinian Capt and the American, HC is a fine gentleman.
Maybe you guys should stay on task, that is, fly your pax from A to B. Rather than this rant about your liking and the professional experience of the CP/FM.
I'm sure Smartlynx knew his professional background and they are comfortable with it, as well as the Latvian CAA.
What makes you think if Icelandic pilots are brought in, you would like them?
There are no laws being broken here, Smartlynx is a charter company, using crews from all over to fly contracts all over.

NDB 17

Icelandair brought in!! They are here doing a good job. You see we are not complaining about them. Because they are correctly licensed, Have EU passport. They are very professional and are nice people to work with. Above all the are experienced.

HC is a nice man BUT he is here with no right to work in Europe, he also has no JAR license. The Argintinian also has no JAR license or right to work in Europe. He also has very little experience. Never should he be teaching very low hour pilots from ATRs with 100hrs on 767. Straight into the left seat from a ATR to 767!!!

When you consider this and so so many pilots here out of work then it MUST stop and they must leave. Regarding the Canadian fleet chief... nobody wants a person like this in our company..

Soon we will make a protest to remove him because the Latvian seem not to care!! AND CARE WE DO

Do any of you guys at SB have valid JAA licences? Or, do any of you have valid EU passports? I think not, but that's okey so, what's the problem? Please explain the situation as, it all depends on what type of contract, does SB have with the Icelandic company ie: ACMI, a wet or dry lease?

NO NEED for the SB airlines pilots have JAR licenses. as it is a leased aircraft. It is like a US Airline landing in Europe.

However, The Smartlynx pilots must be JAR to operate a JAR aircraft. And must have the right to work in the EU.The aircraft is registration in Latvia so is an EU JAA registed aircraft. They also don't have work permits and finally they are on validations that are more than 3 years. ALL THIS is wrong.

PG fleet chief is not wanted in this airline for many reason to ad to the about.

MPH if these guys came to your airline with no license or permit to reside also with wrong and attitude with also made up experience then you would not like.

Rafael 767 Certainly not! But, this should have been then stopped a long time ago. That's why, I asked, do you have a wet lease, dry lease or an ACMI? In any European airline the first thing they will ask is: 1) do you have a JAA licence. 2) Are you a european national Or, do you have a work permit.
By the looks of things you guys fly with a validation to fly Eu registered A/C which has also a time limit. So, if you fly Eu registered A/C you must apply for the JAA licence within a year and a half and pass the relevant exams. It's the same for and EU licence holder and nationals who want to fly in China or else where. He must change over his licence to the local one. It's that simple and is, a way to check and control the diffrent pilots whom apply to foreign airlines. It also makes them legal to fly their A/C. Whether these 2 people that you mentioned and whom, are not favoured by most of the SB pilots it's, really a matter of taking up the situation with the persons whom made out the contract. Make them take up the situation with Smartlynk?

Validation is NOT a work permit and should not be considered as one by the employers or employees.

As you can see the Santa Barbara Pilots can be validated as long as they meet the basic validation requirements. The maximum duration of validation is a year which after it can be renewed.



(3) The requirements stated in (1) and
(2) above shall not apply where aircraft
registered in a JAA Member State are leased
to an operator in a non-JAA State, provided
that the State of the operator has accepted


(a) Licences, ratings, authorisations,
or the period of lease the responsibility for
the technical and/or operational supervision
in accordance with JAR–OPS 1.165. The
licences of the flight crews of the non-JAA
State operator may be validated at the
discretion of the Authority of the JAA Member
State concerned, provided that the privileges
of the flight crew licence validation are
restricted for use during the lease period only
on nominated aircraft in specified operations
not involving a JAA operator, directly or
indirectly, through a wet lease or other
commercial arrangement.

Foreign Pilots
 

Dear Rafael767 & Paco Stand,

Yes, the foreigners (especially that idiot Canadian Fleet Chief) with no JAR Licenses and no EU work permits will leave SmartLynx next month. Their contracts will be terminated and you and Paco can then run the operation in a professional and safe European manner. :D
The aviation world will then be a safer and better place and you will be able to sleep better at night knowing that these 3 evil "non EU pilots" are gone :zzz:....

RWTY

rwethereyet.

Firstly, This is not a rafael767 and paco stand. this is a stand from the majority of pilots in Santa Barbara and likely other european correctly qualified and out of work pilots.

Secondly, SB airlines can now get on with running our airline in a professional manner.

Thirdly, Evil PG is. As this validation/ non Jar requirements was initially taken up by some pilots to management. result.. those pilots were refused movement in the company (ie on to the 767) stopped by PG fleet manager. Result.. This post!

Fourthly. This post only demonstrates the arrogance, non professional conduct and back stabbing from the mauritius PG fleet manager. AS READING ALL THE PREVIOUS POST BY YOU rwethereyet!! IT SEEMS YOU ARE THE PG FLEET CHIEF.

Hey Rafael767.....yes I agree with you about that evil evil PG Fleet Chief.....I know him very well and believe that he is also responsible for the economic meltdown in Iceland, the H1N1 virus,most natural disasters that have occurred in the past 6 months, the rising cost of fuel, world unemployment and your Level 4 English....did I miss any other disasters :confused:
Like I said, he will be terminated next month so that you and Paco stand and all the unemployed European pilots with JAR licenses can fly.....and you and Paco stand can walk hand in hand into the sunset with rose colored sunglasses.....the world will be a much much safer place :D
RWTY :ok:

Closely related to the Devil
 

or maybe the man himself?

This thread is getting funnier every day. I know PG, but never saw him with a three pointed spear, surrounded by flames.:eek:

I think RWTY forgot to mention PG`s obvious responsibility for the war in Afghanistan, Ebola, and not to forget GLOBAL WARMING. Hell is probably getting hotter(than hell :-), emitting heat, warming the global climate.

Maybe this thread is ridicolous enough to end now ?

I agree with you GS Willy but you also forgot the economic situation in Zimbabwe, Al Queda, Iraq, Palestine and last but not least 2012. Contrary to popular belief, it was the Mayans who predicted the end of mankind in 2012 but it is wrtten that it is the evil PG Fleet Manager/Chief who was behind all this! :eek:
RWTY :rolleyes:

very ridicolous
 

I can not agree more with G.S and RWETHEREYET posts.

MODERATOR WHERE ARE YOU ??? PLEASE CLOSE THIS RIDICOLOUS POST !!!

Thanks
 

Dear 747JJ, captjns, DA50Driver,MPH,NDB17, non iron,G.S.Willy, and Pilot125,
It's nice to read your well informed posts in regards to this thread. Hopefully there won't be anymore drivel from the other two who seem to be on a vendetta of some sort.
RWTY:)

rwethereyet

Why do you want this thread to stop! Let the Spanish guys have their say. I also know the man in question! Seems like he treading on his D*** again.:D

pilot125

Close the post!! Why? Truth hurts!! Seems like you are trying to smoke screen the issues here. The 3 are not properly licensed etc.. NOT a vendetta! Just need to get rid! As Classic74 said PG has been there before, stepping on his D*** is the norm!!

When he has gone, then this post will end.

Hey Rafael767....where is your sidekick Paco Stand? Then you brave caped crusaders can rid this world of this evil evil PG and his band of merry non JAR, non European non licensed foreign pilots :D...... so that another 3 evil evil non JAR,non European, non licensed foreign pilots can replace them :E
I just have one question. Can you please tell me where you bought those rose tinted glasses? :confused:. I need a pair..... fashion statement, you know?
Sweet dreams little buddy :zzz:

rwethereyet...

I noticed the two spanish guys have never mention anything about evil or blaming PG fleet chief for things going wrong. They seemed to object to Pilots not being correctly licensed and other correctly unemployed pilots being in Madrid or Iceland as such who could take up the positions.

If the island fleet chief wants to stay then why doesn't he just go and pay out do the jar license then everybody could be happy.

You must also understand the present aviation situation. I'm assuming thats why people are upset. people, pilots not liking each other is just life!! But, not having the correct license!

Focus
 

I agree 100%. Paco and Rafael seem to be sciolists, and seem not to have better things to do. A long time since I did the first captain's check on PG, but he certainly showed something that these "gentlemen" do not...class and pizazze! A talented aviator by anyone's standards, his presence in this audience demonstrates one thing for sure...that those who cannot compete must resort to lowly tactics. It has been a long time since I have read these pages, and was most disappointed to see the level to which the discussion has denigrated. Time to grow up, boys.

Sciolists! Comete! You're making me laugh now:8 Too many people know this PG fleet chief... lowest of the low.

Simple.. He has not the correct license. The Santa Barbara pilots don't want him here. And low low tactics is his speciality.

This post will soon end. Because the Latvian CAA have realized that they too have to comply with Jaa rules.

Focus harder
 

Seems to me that the management knew what requirements were needed, and everything was done within those parameters. The wimpy complainers need to spend more time in the books sharpening their skills rather than moaning and dripping about things that are way above their pay grade.:=

Dear Classic74.....All these unfounded remarks made by this ignorant not to mention mentally unstable Rafael767 doesn't deserve any more attention. He obviously doesn't understand how the licensing/validation process works for the respective JAR CAA's, in this case Latvia. Just for info, SmartLynx has recently been audited by the Latvian CAA with no findings regarding FCL.
Several other people in this thread have taken the time to properly explain to him this procedure and how this issue works.
Unfortunately due to his extremely limited knowledge this material becomes too difficult for his brain to process since he seems to have lost all sense of reality. Therefore he has to resort to lowly tactics. :hmm:
Fortunately people have better things to do than waste time with sciolists like Rafael767.
RWTY
P.s: Ask yourself this, do the Santa Barbara pilots have the "correct licenses" to fly the SmartLynx aircraft? :eek:

Conflict
 

The validation conditions where quite clearly explained in the post above. The SBA crews are quite within legal bounds and entiteled to be issued a validation if the LCAA so chooses as long as the validation conditions such as lease of aircraft are met.

I will apply CRM to this: You gents need to have a good look at whats being showelled here, it is an incomprihesnive amout of sh.ait really.

There is a clear conflict here. Seems that there are both substansive and personalised agendas at work.

For Rafael, Paco et al. It is quite useless to throw the garbage around here and turn a substansive gripe you have into a shouting match on an anonymous bulletin board. If you have a valid professional complaint against certain fleet chief 767, take it up with the service provider, Smartlynx and at the end Loftleidir and Iceland Air group.
You are turning your issue into a personalised problem, where the english word is that you have an axe to grind with the individual. Regardless how right you are, you are doing yourself a great disservice and eroding your credibility.

Others involved in this buhaahaa. I recommend having a good look before getting involved and throwing one's money on the horse being flogged. PDM767. I agree. I have flown with the individual in question. No complaints there on his cockpit skills. But regardless how you look at it, being a good pilot and a good manager and a leader are totally different matters alltogether. I certainly do not want to get started on that subject. I have tried to remain objective and present my arguments without getting emotionally involved.

Good Day 747JJ....please check your pm. Thanks.
RWTY

Ah yes checked and answered.

Janne