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Saturn 11th Mar 2008 08:31

Latest on CityJet
 
As of today has there been signifcant changes at CityJet? I was thinking of applying for DEC and wanted to know a few things if someone has the time.

1) Tax implications based at DUB or LCY. (I assume CDG is now closed?)
2)Implication of the VLM merger/buy out?
3)Current pay scale if someone has it.
4) Are there any Mesaba pilot's left from the RJ85 purchases.
5)Lifestyle roster issues.
6)What ever else you can think of.

It would be a big move for me and I would not go unless I was totally committed. I have read the previous posts and would appreciate minimal flaming and just direct and honest information. Thank you.

wxjedi 11th Mar 2008 16:59

1) Tax implications based at DUB or LCY. (I assume CDG is now closed?)
Dunno
2)Implication of the VLM merger/buy out?
Eventually, both will become one under the Cityjet brand so all good.
3)Current pay scale if someone has it.
Captains make about 6500-9000 a month
4) Are there any Mesaba pilot's left from the RJ85 purchases.
yes
5)Lifestyle roster issues.
6on 3off. Great crews. Great staff travel.
6)What ever else you can think of.
I am thinking of reapplying. I worked there when there was only a handful of 146s. I miss Ireland.

Lafyar Cokov 11th Mar 2008 22:59

Has there been significant news at CityJet in the last couple of days???

5Papa 12th Mar 2008 15:00

1) Tax implications based at DUB or LCY. (I assume CDG is now closed?)
Everybody pays tax in Ireland so 20% till 35000E income, 41% for every euro on top of that.
2)Implication of the VLM merger/buy out?
Eventually, both will become one under the Cityjet brand so all good.
3)Current pay scale if someone has it.
Captains make about 6500-9000 euro net a month
4) Are there any Mesaba pilot's left from the RJ85 purchases.
yes
5)Lifestyle roster issues.
6on 3off. Great crews. Great staff travel.
6)What ever else you can think of.
very good spirit in LCY, no reason for not applying

@Rayfal Vokoc: No.

JaJaBinx 12th Mar 2008 21:48

tax??
 
Sorry 5PAPA, but why would you pay tax to Ireland if you are LCY based and
live in London?

Surely you pay UK tax only?

speedrestriction 18th Mar 2008 13:46

What are the command promotion criteria at Cityjet and what (roughly) is the current time to command?

sr

5Papa 20th Mar 2008 15:11

Sorry for the late reply both of you.

@ JajaBinx: Tax on basic salary is payed in Ireland because it is an Irish company (if you want you could claim taxes back and pay them somewhere else, just don't now why you would want that). So no UK tax. That's just how it works with CityJet.

@ speedrestriction: What do you mean exactly? Maybe this answers your questions: you need 3000hrsTT. You could be hired direct entry. If you would join with less than 500hrsTT (like me), it will take about five years because you will fly about 650 hours a year. You still have to be picked out by the management, so nothing seniority based.

Am happy to answer more questions. Happy landings.

Joffyh 21st Mar 2008 13:37

So if you're a registered UK citizen and work from LCY...you don't pay UK tax? How does that work? Surely if you pay tax to Ireland you must live there for a certain period every year?

:confused:

billington 24th Mar 2008 12:33

cityjet pay
 
You say captains making 6000 - 9000 a month NET!!!!!

In other words after tax.

Is this actually true

Rgds

Billington:confused:

ragnarok 24th Mar 2008 20:38

Bases in CDG and ORY are still open , Cityjet taken to court by 17 employees and under current investigation by the Gendarmerie, labour inspection...etc

Volorovescio 25th Mar 2008 07:04

Homebase
 
Hello guys,
is there any chances to be hired in Paris?

Thanks

5Papa 25th Mar 2008 19:03

Joffyh: That's just how it works. Either you live in LCY or DUB, you pay taxes in Ireland.

Billington: Again, this is exactly true.

Volorovescio: Chance is not 0%, but it is very small so don't expect it. Depends what you got to offer ;).

Volorovescio 26th Mar 2008 13:52

Interview
 
I have shortly the interview.
How will be the recruitment?
Since they have invited me for the interview, will be that at all or there will be also the simulator evaluation?

toomuchtimeintheair 26th Mar 2008 18:07

Thinking of Applying
 
Hi All,

Was thinking of applying to CityJet as a Direct Entry Captain. What are the requirments to be considered? I Have 3300 tt 1000 Turbo Prop Capt and 500 Jet F/O (Current Position).

What are the chances of getting Dublin Base?

Web site mentions 6 on 3 off. Would a lot of this time be spent in Paris Hotels. What's the latest finish and earliest start day off requriments.

In general what's the atmosphere like with crewing and managment, I'm guessing there's a lot of unrest at the moment after the cdg base closure.

How secure is the Air France contract, When is it up for renewal?

Many Thanks Boys and Girls

going 'round 26th Mar 2008 20:16

Hi Toomuch

Was thinking of applying to CityJet as a Direct Entry Captain. What are the requirements to be considered? I Have 3300 tt 1000 Turbo Prop Capt and 500 Jet F/O (Current Position).
You should be ok for DE with those hours, or perhaps fast track to command

What are the chances of getting Dublin Base?
No problems

Web site mentions 6 on 3 off. Would a lot of this time be spent in Paris Hotels. What's the latest finish and earliest start day off requirements.
You'll do about 3 overnights/week. There's no requirement for early/late days off. In fact often start back early and finish late before/after days off, although not as often as in the past. Rostering is the one major problem at wx. The 6/3 fixed roster is a small step in the right direction.

In general what's the atmosphere like with crewing and management, I'm guessing there's a lot of unrest at the moment after the cdg base closure.
No problems, except in cdg base, but that's mostly due to lack of communication. . Too involved to go into, but CDG base is not closing. Overall, a good bunch of people.

How secure is the Air France contract, When is it up for renewal?
No AF contract as such - Cityjet is a 100% owned subsidiary of AF so no fear of flights disappearing. Major impediment to growth is lack of crews at the moment.

Many Thanks Boys and Girls

toomuchtimeintheair 26th Mar 2008 22:34

Thanks for the info Going Around
 
Thanks for the info Going Around

Zurg 27th Mar 2008 13:48

Thanks for the good info everyone. A couple more if I may,

Could a Captain living in the UK out of LCY give me an idea of take home. Any extra tax to pay for the UK tax man etc? I can't seem to get E7000 net using the ppjn figures!

Also pension and staff travel?
If someone could give me an idea of the 6 days on, work pattern that'd be great too - got to work out if I could use the delights of UK public transport from the South East..

Thanks again.

General Dogsbody 28th Mar 2008 00:38

Hi Guys,

Cityjet is a good place to work, however there are some important details being left out by the others people posting here:

Rostering is a Major problem, the 6/3 is an improvement but only slight you are still looking at early start to your week and a late finish. (you can't have the fixed roster in your first year with the company or when you get upgraded for a year)

The company is Very short of Captains, hence I have heard that 15 O/Nights in a 28 day roster is not unheard of and up to 60 sectors. Good money mind you.

Because of the previous point annual leave is a Major problem and it is almost certain that you will not get to use your full entitlement and will end up building up large carry over days for years, I have heard of guys who are due Sixty Days, although how can they use them given the current situation.

Watch out for Management types on the forum they can paint a rosey picture, there is a very high turnover in cityjet at the moment and the main problem is with the roster, given the low crew numbers this is not likely to improve and has been a constant problem for many years.

There is a great bunch of Guys and Galls in Wx though and the work is good fun and interesting just not for people interested in quality of life, family etc.

nuageblanc 28th Mar 2008 11:02


How secure is the Air France contract, When is it up for renewal?
AF love cityjet. No fear there.
Air France loves everybody ! even Alitalia pilots ! AF has decided to hire 180 Alitalia pilots :eek:

lulu75 29th Mar 2008 20:40

Sorry, but I think some people are trying to make Cityjet look a lot better than what it really is. My boyfriend was a captain in wx and he never ever made 9000 euros/month. On a better month ( working maximum duty time ) he was making around 6000 euros. You are probably adding the 2000 euros that captains got for moving from CDG or DUB base to go to LCY (for a year only). Then I guess you can add up few hundreds if you are instructor or line checker.
Anyway, in the end the money is not everything. You will find out in the long run.
The atmosphere is still good in lcy cause its still new and people are still motivated and lots of them have the leaving allowance ( but for only a year)!!

antz 31st Mar 2008 08:45

HI all,

i've been reading this post with intrest as I am currently trying to decide whether to apply or not.

Is it fair to say that there are some issues but that the company are trying to resolve them ?

I would be a direct entry command hopefully ! coming from a turbo prop.

Are there really that many overnights ? and issues with leave ?

Also heard they might be switching to the Q 400 ?

Do you get paid a salay during training ?

Do you receive your expenses during line training ?

I know a lot of people have answered a few of these querys but I'm just trying to build a picture of the company before I commit to them.

Leave could be an issue for me as I have to try and co ordinate with my girlfriend her leave requirements, are they flexible in trying to accomadate this ?

Jetfella 4th Apr 2008 13:46

cityjet
 
Hi,
they do pay during training,normal expenses too I believe.no Q400,sticking with RJ.Lots of days away,as they are badly shortstaffed,constant roster changes from a poor crewing office.Leave?,you must be kidding!
There are issues that the company are dealing with,but thats always been the case,some very good people there,but its a very unpleasant place to work.
London city is a disaster financially,Madrid scrapped,Milan dumped,and few bums on seats ZRH,GVA,with stiff competition from Cityflyer and Swiss.They picked the wrong time to expand,wrong airport,and youd have to wonder whos making the commercial decisions.
Could be a great airline!!,,pity about the management...

lulu75 4th Apr 2008 20:02

I cant beleive I actually ear about Air France on this thread. CityJet is an IRISH AIRLINE ! You will ear it so many times if you join in. You cant forget about it ! They should be so proud to be owned by Air France... Pride, pride...

Jetfella 4th Apr 2008 23:01

are you havin a laff? proud?,in london,air france want to disown cityjet!,ask how many flights have been cancelled ex Lcy,not a proud record for a company with a greatly confused brand,air france for city jet,cityjet for airfrance for scot airways for... blah blah blah,not want you want to EAR!,
watch the scramble as extra flights are put on zrh gva to try and pull pax,in the summer!!!,,the pockets are not that deep,,,proud my arse!

lulu75 5th Apr 2008 20:06

In fact you are right; pride has nothing to do with it. CityJet simply would not have existed anymore if it wasn't for Air France. They are flying on Air France slots on pretty much every route they operate so as soon as Air France pulls out WX is non-existant. They wouldn't have anywhere to fly and, , I doubt anybody could even find them because the brandname CityJet is completely unknown to most people. (90% of their passengers buy tickets for an AIR FRANCE flight.)

It is quite clear that AF is trying to move CityJet out of Paris, most likely because of pressure from BritAir and Regional. At least Air France is giving them a chance to stay in business as the AF-provider out of the UK and Dublin. To be courteous to its neighbour, British Airways, Air France has decided to not start an Air France-base in London and call it CityJet for AF. Makes perfect sense to me...
That it might not be a commercially viable option is a different matter. but they could have just pull the plug .

Jetfella 6th Apr 2008 15:31

cityjet
 
I think Cityjet are moving from paris due to the French Labour laws mainly.There is huge unrest amongst the crews because of this,its caused major upheaval for lots of staff,cc and flight deck.The london City project is purely a cityjet creation,their first experiment if you like, of operating independent of AF.However theyve borrowed in excess of 180 million euro from Paris to expand out of LCY.So its a gamble.Its patently not paying off!
The despatch rate is shocking since the start,and as I mentioned in an earlier post,very poor uptake on GVA ZRH.Theyre trying to address this now with some hairbrained new schedule dooomed to failure.
VLM takeover?doubt it now.What amazes me is that in the current climate,or even historically,how come there is no commercial savvy?.Is it a case of a wall full of degrees and no real substance?
Whers is the brash young man or woman in Swords who can see the wood from the trees and make it work?.they need someone badly with vision.IMHO,there problem stems from the fact of being under AF wing for so long,very comfy,lots of backup.Now,they have their own baby,and they didnt do prenatal!
LCY is a very collicky babay!!

lulu75 7th Apr 2008 15:15

The only route that really works is the 0RY/LCY which is full of frequent flyers mostly French who use Air France by CityJet cause its the only airline going to LCY and cause all of them have the frequent flyer program that give them miles on each flight.They are by the way starting to annoy the passengers on that route with the constant delays due to the change of A/C that comes from GVA or ZRH etc...There has been plenty of complains lately. I doubt lots of English, Irish or Swiss passengers are so much interested in this frequent traveller card.Air France is just trying to see if there is any money to get from LCY, and probably trying to get as much slots as possible to take away from BA.

Volorovescio 10th Apr 2008 08:43

Annual leave
 
How many days a year?
Thanks

5Papa 11th Apr 2008 20:33

27.

Doable.

Jetfella 12th Apr 2008 11:52

annual leave
 
problem is,you wont get any of the leave you apply for,specially if your new!They have developed a highly complicated system of granting leave,when there are so many ways of simplifying it.Instead,after an interminable make work project,thay have an ABC system,one year in a, next in c,next b,next a.Basically meaning that youll never get what you want.Also,they tag A/L days on to your days off willy nilly,which is disgraceful.
They dont want you carrying days,but you will have no choice.You will be called on your day off,as crewing are not au fait with JAR Ops,and at least common courtesy.
Also 5Papa,the 6/3 much heralded fixed roster is bull.Thats only for a select few,and even then has strings attached.If your new,or upgraded you wont get it for a year at least,but by then they will have fewer crews...and on it goes.
You have to remember, your dealing with a company whose new look website still advertises Madrid from LCY?.may seem like a small detail to some,but the marketing is god awful.Coupled with the poor branding,leads to problems.As I mentioned in a previous post,theyre making heavy losses on ZRH GVA,and even the Nice which was doing well,will be hampered by Cityflyer who are starting on it,with a very well oiled machine,super efficient.I foresee LCY being the thorn in the WX side.The Airfrance staff in LCY have embraced it like the Ebola Virus,rock up for a flight and just look at the blank stares and long faces,..they dont wanna work for a cityjet?.
One more point,the RJs they bought from ummerikka are lemons.

Douche Bag 12th Apr 2008 13:14

Jetfella,

so much of your information is just plain wrong, and as for the rest of it, that is just your opinion, not based on fact at all.
Don't listen to him.
And it's 29 days leave, not 27.

Jetfella 12th Apr 2008 14:20

quality replies please,
douche bag,,yarp!:D

Pat_Mustard 12th Apr 2008 15:30

Jetfella...

You are fairly accurate on some points,for me from what i can see the "management" and i use the term management loosely have lost the plot....

Jetfella 12th Apr 2008 19:58

thats agreed.also,certain base "managers"are not present at the base,which is a real turn off for the hardworking crew members,theres an appalling brown nose culture at cityjet which is catching up on them.
those who work in lcy know what i mean,sycophancy and hypocricy are the order of the day in cityjet.Market forces have no respect for this,and this is why they will lose....by the way,anyone thinking of joining,for a more detailed breakdown on t and conditons,,pm me,I have lots of info which id prefer not to publish here,
ciao.

Redline 14th Apr 2008 01:01

Sooo... Various pay figures have been mooted... 6.5 to 9k Euros... Is this net or gross??

5Papa 15th Apr 2008 12:13

Douche Bag, 29 indeed, point taken!

Wrote a nice post to actually make Jetfella's post worthless but hey, connection went down and I don't have the power to type it again.. So hooray to hotel internet.

Summary: new people not getting their leave? Hmm give me some facts, please, since I got mine all the time and I am not a senior here.

Oh hey that's the summary which proves that this guy isn't worth listening to already!

But anyway, Red Line, captain's salary is indeed between 6,5K and 9 K a month NET. It is such a big difference because if your are a new captain with a relatively easy roster you get 6,5K, but if you are more senior and get called on a couple of days off (for which you will get 500E NET a day extra), than the amount on your payslip can rise to 9K NET a month, yes.

Don't hesitate to ask any more questions,

happy landings

lulu75 15th Apr 2008 20:33

5PAPA, you are just very lucky to be LCY based. I am really not trying to make make WX look bad. I am being totaly honest. I can tell you that new captains in CDG do not make 6.5 K a month. Its 6 k working max duty time.Of course we are not talking about captains who have been there for 10 years, instructors, line checkers... But how many are they ? And they have to apply for their leaves a year in advance which is often refused already a year in advance. LCY is an other airline in WX.
Its a fact ! WX has its good sides but...

5Papa 16th Apr 2008 03:40

You're right Lulu. But seriously, a captain's basic gross salary is at least E60.000 a year, so plus at leassst E2000 NET sector pay a month you will get 6K.

But anyway, let's not focus on this amount..

And again you are right that I am lucky to be in LCY, lucky as well that it suites me.

Jetfella 22nd Apr 2008 22:21

court case in france
 
Good Luck to the guys and girls, Flight deck and Cabin Crew,who have embarked on their Labour Court case in France this week.19 hard workers,who have been faced with no choice,Indicative of employee management relations in this company,Bonne chance.you all deserve every success.I will keep you posted on here as to developments,let justice take its course,
Ciao.

Teddy Robinson 26th Apr 2008 15:24

Leave
 
From personal experience.

Leave is applied for on the intranet, if the dates appears in the right color you would think that the leave will be ok.

It remains unconfirmed until the issue of the roster containing your leave dates which makes booking anything a gamble.

If your leave dates straddle two rosters: ie you have booked two weeks but only have one confirmed, there is no avenue available to find out if you will be required for duty at the end of you first weeks leave until you leave the beach, log onto the intranet and look at your new roster.

Leave is indeed tagged onto ones days off without consultation: so your annual leave is now at Cityjet's complete convenience.

Colleagues have been given leave, booked holidays, and had the leave withdrawn by email some weeks later.

Tax regime: The French revenue are understandably upset that french Nationals, living and working in France pay their taxes to the Irish government.

Does the company for one moment believe that the UK Inland revenue will take a different view given that crew members do not comply with the 90 day rule ?

A base is a base, and within the EU that is not negotiable !


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