CSA Czech Airlines...still lowballing?
 

Hey there, new poster to Pprune, thought I would ask a question a few of you may be able to help me with.

I am a Canadian Commercial Pilot with an EU passport about to write my ATPL's and have read a few posts about CSA airlines that date from 2004 on these forums.

I speak fairly fluent Czech and am looking at seeing something other than the Great White North.

I am hoping to get some more updated info on their payscale, starting positions, sched, quality of life ect....

I understand there have been some union renegotiations in recent memory, all I have heard so far is that starting FO wage is about 2,000 Euro's, but I have no idea of payscale and upgrade path.


Thanks in advance.

PPJN is correct basically.

As a foreigner you will be employed by click4sky, not CSA directly, however this makes little difference today (though there are rumors of creating 2 airlines out of CSA, making the ATR fleet a regional airline under click4sky).

If you think that 2000 Euro is 6 times the standard salary of a worker, then you can imagine that your lifestyle is higher than in most western companies.

CSA and the local CAA will accept your TC licence and pay you and give you time off while converting to JAA (within a year). You will be flying on the right seat of their ATR fleet for a minimum of 2-3 years, then either go to the Airbus fleet or the left seat of the ATR. - This is minimums, can be as long as 7 years, depending on requirements and ability.

The Boeings are on their way out, brand new Airbusses on their way. You will never get onto the A310 fleet. On the ATR, you have very little night flying and a fair amount of overnights. The hotels are quite good and you go to the hotel even for 2-3 hours.

hope this helps, IP

That is true if you think of food&beer as the only parameters for lifestyle; buying a car, a mobile phone or going on holiday will cost you exactly the same or even more as in Germany or France.

tf,
I have recently bought a house next to the airport. I also have one near Frankfurt. The one here is less than a quarter in price, even though more centrally located and more land.

Food and drink is not the only parametres, though you get lunch vouchers from CSA, allowing you to go to many different restaurants all over the city every day and eat for free... When you are sick of dining out, you can go shopping with them.

More parametres: cheap land and houses and rents, our cleaning lady gets 5 Euros an hour, fuel costs 1.1 Euro a litre, the car repair shop takes under 10 Euros an hour. Public transport is efficient and costs under a Euro, never mind how far you go.

It is true that even Czech made cars cost more here than abroad and that mobiles are expensive. There are still many things considered luxury items and thus are high in price. Hopefully, this will change. We are dreading the Euro which is on it's way...

With regards to holidays: I don't know if CSA has a similar scheme, but TVS will give you free flights and full board acommodation every year in Fuerteventura with the family.

From the 1st of January 08, we have a flat rate income tax of 18%, adding to the net income.

Can you imagine the savings if a pilot comes with an FAA licence and CSA faces the bill for conversion? How many airlines do that?? calculate the savings over a period of let's say 2 or 3 years, and suddenly you are not getting less than with the majors abroad.

They give you time off and pay your Czech course to improve your language skills (though a little more than basic Czech is a prerequisite).

I realize, things are far from ideal and people leave from time to time, but all in all, it is a package that is not too bad. They have been around for a long time and it is unlikely that any government would see them fold.

cheers, IP

Irish,

I too have invested in property overthere, not by the airport but downtown where prices are still cheap compared with the west but still i would have never been able to pull a deal on a CSA salary.
You mentioned things like gasoline at 1.1 euros/liter, well that's EU average unlike the wages though.
You can have a very decent life at CSA as long as you conform to czech standards where having a car is still considered a luxury, but suggesting that one can have a better lifestyle than in many western countries is an overstatement.
Having said that living there on a western contract is a different story....

This makes very little sense as C4S is a marketing-spin project and has no AOC etc. All aircraft on CSA AOC are crewed by CSA mainline pilots as represented by Czech Airlines CZ ALPA.

There is small number of foreign pilots who joined during (overhated) expansion in 2005, all of them type rated. Pilot-wise, the company has been downsizing for the last 12 months, although we will see approx 10-15 newcomers total by the end of 2007 to cover retirements and resignations. I do not see many reasons to employ pilots not speaking Czech, mainly because holding pool has about a year worth of candidates and the selection process (namely psychological evaluation) is in Czech. Standing pilot requirement no longer justifies running a parallel one I think.

OTOH, as you do speak Czech you can apply and join just like any other pilot, but the recruitment website seems to be down for a while http://czechairlines.reload.com.cz/w...cruitment/www/. Of course you will need the Czech CAA to accept and later convert your licence to a JAA one which is solely your responsibility.

FD.

tf,
thanks for confirming all I wrote except for the fuel prices. True, they are only 20% lower than Germany.Unfortunately, prices for certain goods that are considered luxury here but are taken for granted elsewhere are way out of reach for ordinary Czechs. But not for Pilots.

Save 20 000 on the licence and another 20 000 on paying for a rating (which you need with some airlines) and you can buy an excellent car over here and will get a couple of mobiles thrown in with it. Thinking about it, that would already buy you a couple of 100 m2 of building land not too far from the airport...

fd:
the psycho tests are most definitely not only in Czech, they can be done in about a dozen languages, including German, Spanish and French. I KNOW this as I am involved in their selection process which has been outsourced and is now done online with a US company. We have had 10 foreigners this year, all personally linked to Czech, some with the bare minimums, some with FAA ATP. They were French, Spanish, US American, German and many Slovaks of course (whereas Slovak is almost the same as Czech).
The rest of the tests are done half in Czech and half in English. There have bee close to 50 people screened, however usually only 50% pass the psychological evaluation. Even less pass the rest, so you are probably right that the intake will not be more than 15.

It then depends on the individual experience wether they go into the pool or start immediately. Last DEC taken were in 2004 from Fischer due to strong union representation.

With regards to click4sky, I simply aired what I was told. - I am not employed by CSA. I was also told that though the management would favour some English natives to join them to raise the level of spoken English, ICAO has made it a requirement for anyone joining to speak Czech. Pilots inside CSA know why.

AP:
Apply, as you speak Czech on the link provided, you would get a 1 year contract, subject to permanency upon successfully completing the JAR conversion. You will then be bonded for the rating.

good luck! IP

Irish,

as far as i know the foreigners that have been taken on had to pay for their type ratings.
If gasoline is about 20% cheaper than in Germany while pilot wages are about 50% down that eats well into your lifestyle.
With 2500 euros/month you can't really have a western lifestyle in a city like Prague where rents for a decent flat in town are about 15k crowns (550 euros), car prices are at times more than in the west, goods cost just like elsewhere in the EU exept for czech food and beer (and you don't wanna live on czech food for long if you wanna pass your next medical),dining out in the city will easily cost you 50 euros, buying a decent flat means you will have to spend at least 5million crowns (185.000 euros), anytime you go abroad on holiday you will realize how bad your salary is and so on....

On the other hand one could join say Net Jets and live in the Czech Rep. on a western salary earning twice as much as CSA guys and not having to pay for the type either:}

I was only back in Praha for two weeks, and my hotel was complimentary so all my expenses were food and stupid souvenirs for everyone on the other side of the pond.


The BEST restuarant in Prague was not the most expensive; it was joined to most expensive one by a very modest door as to not attract the attention of spendy tourists.... ironically a local secret as it featured the same kitchen and menu for half the price!:p


This first class meal cost us 500 CZK which is roughly 15 Euros. On the other side of the wall you would have spent 30 Euros max unless you went crazy with bottles of wine ect....

TF is right about housing prices in Praha (Prague), although most english language real-estate flyers feature heavy over-pricing. Best to get a Czech friend to help you look through local listings.

Prague is a great city to live in, but leave your car parked at the west edge of the town where Dejvicka Metro-A ends! Very efficient, fast, cheap and clean public transit but very frustrating to try to drive around and park in with your own car...

This may sound like a very silly question to most of you living in the Old World, but how does income tax and gross/net pay work in Europe?


I believe I was under the mistaken impression that 2000 Euro was gross pay, not net pay. In Canada we have roughy 24% of our pay stripped right from our cheques and still pay anywhere between 5%-14% in taxes on purchased goods......


I would love clarification on this.


While I would love to fly the big jets, I have a strong interest to move back to Czech Republic to fly corporate or charter/business. Any and all info on alternative (and lucractive) flying jobs in Czech ( such as Net Jets) would be much appreciated.

Thanks again

Airline Pirate.

Last time in Prague I went for sushi and a couple of Sapporo beers in one of the few good jap restaurants in town, some of you may argue that sushi is a western luxury but still i feel the need of telling you that i paid exactly as if i had been in Berlin or Paris.
Of course one can feed himself with potatoes and pork and save a little bit but we were talking about lifestyle here.
As far as rents are concerned it will not help you much if you speak czech or not, they are in the range of 500euros/month anyways (I'm talking about a decent flat in town).
Leaving your car at Dejvicka is not a desirable practice since car theft is one of the main recreational activities of the czech rep.

My suggestion would be Net Jets: good company, good T&C and the possibility to be based in Prague.

AP, if you are interested in living here and flying anything remotely big, then CSA has to be your choice.
however, if tf is right and Netjets pays you while flying on a non-JAA licence and pays for your conversion, then I would take his advice. I didn't know that. Netjets is a good employer here in Europe and you spend a lot time at home.

There are a few smaller jet operators here who do not sponsor a transition to JAA, but do take foreigners. Their pay is en par with CSA.

You are right that it is possible to spend more, However I spend nothing on restaurants (as my wifes employer gives us the vouchers) and even if I did, I would eat Czech, Pakistani, Indian, Chinese, Thai, etc for under 5 Euros with a nice glass of wine right in the centre. Once you live here, you will find those spots. It is true that it is not too healthy to live on Czech food alone.

I am afraid if you are looking for a lucrative job here, then you have to look elsewhere. tf is correct that it is best to work abroad and live here. Really depends on where you want to spend your time, how interested you are in job security, what you want to fly, etc.

Same tax situation as in your place: Income tax lower (18%), VAT (tax on goods) is slightly higher: 19%, except on basic food which is 5% and on services, also 5% (though this might change soon to all 19%).

Hope this helps. IP

:*:* income 32%, social security + medical 13% !!!:*:*

Hmm, I was looking for something else in the forum and unearthed this tidbit. IP that's quite a lot of writing you put in there but I'd hate to pee your cornflakes..most of it is BS. Tarjet and FD are bang on...now let's mention some of the inaccuracies..DEC from Fischer was a classic union screw over...but conforming to the rules. Sort of in czech where the wolf eats and the goat stays whole if you know what I mean. The procedure was to hire the guys immediately and give them unpaid leave which allowed them to be on the seniority list. Few months down the road, when no one was any wiser, there was a selection for Capt. Since the first qualified applicants were way down on the list, no one questioned the process. It was only after walking down the hallway and seeing four stripers that I;ve never seen before that we figured out we were had. Legal? Yes. Moral?...probably not. So, in fact we never had Direct entry Captains, we just had Captains that were on unpaid leave as FO's until such position became available.
Second, the psych test is being done by a female psychologist who I highly doubt would even consider doing it in other languages. The other tests are all in Czech...two weeks ago was the first time we ever gave a test in English and that was done for a native US pilot who took the time to learn Czech but couldn't read in Czech fast enough to complete it in time. Click 4 sky is a marketing tool, nothing to do with splitting CSA into subdivisions. All pilots on the seniority list would flowthrough anyhow in case it did subdivide so there is no incentive to do that now anyway.
What does ICAO have to do with forcing people to speak Czech on the flight deck???? We have several non-czech speakers already working here and they get on quite well thank you..as a matter of fact, I look forward to flying with them to break the monotony and our CAA has no problems with that as English is the language officially spoken on the flight deck.
The other stuff, well, we don't get any food vouchers, any car repair garage here charges more than a hooker for an hour...CSA will definitely NOT NOT NOT pay you while you do you conversions. You come here with a TR but a different licence then you get time to convert. You screw up, then you don't meet the qualifications for being a pilot at CSA and they will drop you like a hot potato... The CAA is good enough that they stay within the normal parameters, not like a long time ago where their decision was arbitrary with no recourse. The pay...well let's not talk about that...50% of EU average. Wish I had more time but gotta go, IP don't take it personally and I am glad that someone is trying to help out. Airline pirate think about if you really want to give up a known lifestyle for the wild wild east europe.
click (had the handle long before CSA thought of click4sky:mad:)

I spend five euros to get drunk and forget about this dump. Worst place I have ever lived. Glad to be out soon.

Cheers
LE

Good thing though, LE, it just cost you a fiver! ;-) No seriously, I believe you missed out on a lot.

click,
As I said above: "With regards to click4sky, I simply aired what I was told." - sorry if I was wrong.

With regards to ICAO and English, ask your CP, he personally explained it to me. - I do not believe an open forum is the place to write about this.

The psycho test is outsourced to IQI (www.iqi.cz), where they are conducted online through a US company and conducted at their office in Oldřichova 49, no longer with CSA. The psychologist supervising this is the most definitely not female Dr Jan Rydlo, who, for an extra charge (6200CZK cash, completely official,) will allow you to do it in a range of languages...

A friend of mine completed his ATR conversion around 6 months ago and told me that he was on a (reduced) salary from day one. I will chase him up on that.

As said before, this is not a place to make money. None of the companies here are. I myself work abroad and live here, allowing for a very decent lifestyle.

FD: True that it is 32% now, but only for another 3 weeks. Flat rate tax from 1st Jan 08 is no longer 18%. Seems to be 15% now... Please correct me if I'm wrong here, just had a minute to google the newest legislation on this. We'll see what happens. But, as mentioned before, VAT will go from 5% to 19% on many goods. See also here:

http://www.hoover.org/research/russi...s/9400171.html

must dash... IP

click, LE: Thanks for the input, guys. I did not contribute further before because there is nothing I can add to an expat living discussion; also I could not tell IP off as it dawned on me that he may know more then I do. Serious, see below.

AirlinePirate: Sorry not to have responded to your PM, apologies. See here http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpos...2&postcount=84. It looks quite rose tinted because that's how I view it, a local kid who never dreamed about anything else and joined with 220 hrs onto 737. Rose tinted yes, optimistic no. What you need is a reality check from click, LE et al who know how to weigh things in. Check 1: USD (per diems are in USD) no longer 22 CZK but 17,5; check 2: new taxation laws from JAN 08, initially more take-home, cost impact to be seen - VAT on housing up from 5 to 9 per cent, etc.; check 3 new contract aimed at 3% below expected inflation :yuk: ... gents, please do continue.

IP My psychometrics were done in-house by a Dr.Psycho-Guru-Legend (read a very old man), Czech language only. Some time this was changed to more "modern" way and was done on-line, from home, unsupervised with a different company. This was abolished some time later too and now is outsourced to firm IQI in Prague and done in Czech. Hence my comment that you are no longer correct with the on-line process. I have spoken to a friend of mine and need to take that back. You are right. IQI only harvest data that are fed to an US outfit and this certainly can be done in more languages. The supervisor is Dr.Moravcova, a name that perhaps is familiar to you.

Re: Reduced Pay: Until a newcomer finishes the initial training / type rating course, it is a pilot-in-training pay calculated as 50% of year one FO basic. This was the case for a very long time, today equals to 31433 CZK/month.

Again, as an outsider you do not have the ability to match things together, but your facts indeed are correct. Except for the car repairs of course, forked 800€ for a Skoda door paint job :O

What scares me is your note about employment by C4S (not possible). There is, however, CSA Services outfit to which some CSA personell have been transferred to. Aircraft and office cleaners, lorry drivers and so. For some time, newly employed check-in staff, cabin crew, ... are also only on contract with CSA Services. The ability to hire-and-fire seems to be the leading factor. But hey, these CC are no longer CSA mainline employees and cannot be represented by CC union! Ooops.

Cannot see that happen to pilots, the scope clause is firmly welded in. Ooops, until the contract runs out, that is in 25 days. :sad: Until I read the new LOL insurance conditions that hit my company mailbox just yesterday.
Validity of the contract? 1 DEC 07 to 1 DEC 08 !!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

FD (the un-real)

You might be more right than ever:}...Actually this is a forum for airing views and any tidbit of information for everyone to see, I disagreed with you on a number of things which I thought were based on erroneous information but I can see where you are coming from now...and from someone who is outside the organization, you have a very good general overview. Couple things, first:
What an enviable position to be in...wanna trade places?:E
Second: Getting back to the Fischer DEC, the airline went through an extremely rapid expansion in hmmm about 2004 where we had a change at the helm. Ex-leader Kula, who rose to his highest level of incompetence and refused to change his apartchik style of leadership was ousted. The replacement was none other than megalomanic Tvrdik who was showcased as the messiah to lead CSA to glory and salvation. He began the long awaited and necessary fleet renewal and expansion. CSA doubled the fleet numbers over the span of about 18 months going from 25 to over 50 aircraft. This created a shortage of qualified personnel. So the company started trawling through the competition and used every means available to get people on board. We had an acute shortage of Captains at the time and it was not uncommon for upgrades from the ATR to be told that you can't get back to the jet because we have no-one to take your position while at the same time, people that had been with the company for a short time were slipped into the left seat of a 737. This created resentment because the difference in pay...at the time between a Captain on the ATR and the 737 was quite large. Roughly 10 k+. When Fischer folded, which a lot of people forecast and it was only a matter of time, the astute Captains already had their applications in. The union, CZALPA CSA represents the interest of pilots at CSA so it was only natural that it would vote against direct entry. There won't be any DEC is what we said over and over again. We will not take a DEC because such practices damage the seniority system and the seniority system is one of the basic tenets of union membership. It's not that we were against helping out CSA in their time of need but we refused to dance to their tune because it was largely self-inflicted. If CSA had a vision, a long term strategy..then that would be a different matter. DEC on a contract is something that can buffer the needs of the airline and stay within parameters of the seniority system. Nevertheless, since we expect to be screwed over in certain matters, that makes it much easier to anticipate where it will happen. Btw, those Fischer DEC did bring a lot of experience and fresh thinking into the company so overall I can't complain. I only see the positive side of this, the current FO who is still in the right seat will have a different view.
My oh my....living large are we? Snorting Chivas through the nose are we? Which high class establishment will you be taking IP to?:E

After learning about the fine new collective agreement, I need to spend more money on drinks, and perhaps get some good sniffing stuff. God, how stupid people are there. Incredible.:(

looks like someone in the know (hopefully...) updated the PPJN numbers:
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/fact...j2x2r85zcav48y
Anyone care to comment on the NET figures, seems an increase from the base FO salary from 2000 Euro to 2500 EURO (net).
Also has anyone found an average for total hours for applicant they would consider once they need to start filling groundschools again? I realize there isn't much movement at this time, but PPJN doesnt really tell you much about what they're actually looking for...

Thanks once again to all for continuing to shed light on what its like to work there....

Just my 2 cents.

I started out with CSA back in jan 2000... After some major baboonage and licensing issues I attended my initial sim training at a great resort town in Greece for 3 weeks. The instructors back then made sure we did 1 sim session every other day to maximize baking our nuggets in the sun (we were down there at the end of june). Debriefs included drinks and a dip in the Mediterranean.... sweet. The next 3 years were a blurred rattle from the Hamilton Standards attached to those PW 124's. Obviously some pipe was layed and chicks impregnated. Needless to say the beer is awesome and Prague is a great city to be single in. I went to right seat of the Beeing in 2004 and a year later upgraded to ATR captain. That was when Hair-lip was going crazy with fleet expansion and most all of us expats got a left seat post. Thanks Tvrdik, you moron. I'm trying to paint a nice picture to you AP because I had no regrets working there and would do it again in a heart beat. I met great guys like LE, click and bratko. We went big often. I brought back a beautiful CSA stewardess and a wicked little daughter. I've since moved back to the great white north and fly to sh#t holes like Fort Mac and Grand Prairie. Greasy parts of the oil patch that you seem to know.

I guess to answer you initial questions, the schedule isn't very efficient, as for your starting position, if you're a pirate go buy yourself an A 320 rating (can you still do that click?) and the pay..... well I consider myself to be one the best payed prop pilots on the planet when I left CSA. The flak jackets on boys (don't give me those ASIA or INDIA contact jobs because I'd imagine lifestyle must blow chowder when you have a family), as for lifestyle, I had to move back, because I would have harboured the clap or one of those nasty ailments at some point.

Try it out AP, it was worth every minute.

Checkster

PPJN says 4500 net for FO:=. I am year 5 (the increase is rather more pronounced in first 10), and average around 3000-3800. 2500€ for a newcomer seems a reasonable estimate. There is some movement at the time. The company has learned to accept 220 hrs guys and gals. Experience is not a problem, provided you have been trained properly. Just apply, there will be time to decide later.

FD (the un-real)

Checkster, you should really consider returning to the wasteland of Czechoslovakia. As I learned, the company is giving a very generous payrise of 1 percent. This and the shiny new airbuses waiting for ya should be more than convincing.

LE

4500 net is more like a ten year "kepten" on da 737, me thinks.

LE

Gross figures:

Base
FO y 1 61661
FO y 5 81060
CP y 10 136629

Flt Hour
FO 614
CP 863

Sector
FO 172
CP 240

Per diems 350-550 US$/month.
Taxes starting next year approx. 35%, per diems exempted.

"if you're a pirate go buy yourself an A 320 rating "
I think of myself more of an overnight layover pub "pirate" than anything else.... :}

Checko or no
 

Well AP a tough one. I was the "OG" before I dug out about a year and half ago, and do I miss it. Hell no!!!! Sure I was a big CA/IP on the 737, and now I am in the right seat starting all over, do I have any regrets just wish it was sooner, as I was in country from '96-06. It was a great life experiment, and I got to live in a really happening city, I made some real life long buddies, click checkster, and LE, however all the "benefits" kind of leaked away when I got hitched and had a couple of kids. My life was kind of busy so many of the bad things got filtered away by going real big with the above mentioned punks, but the family life really opened my eyes to lots of the commie **** left over, and my friend there is still a ton out there. I'm sure if you PM click he can give you latest the CBA. I personally did not the way most people interacted, although I had a core group of ex pats and Czechs that are buds of life, way too much commie.... As far as the company is conconcerned I think it for the most part sucks, lots of ****y low time micro managing Captains who would have a hard time passing a F/O ride where I am, very lame non productive scheudals, that by the way are not done by seniority. Besides that now the pay is livable, and with the tax decrease it will be even better, but don't hold you breath, by the next elections things can turn around and the leftist ***** there might raise your taxes even higher than they were before. Other stuff, healthcare- free (if you belive that fat **** M Moore and his epic movie)but ****ty, corruption - very high, safety- worse than De-toilet, but the women are fine the beer is good and cheap, oh ya and retierment- ha ha, well below the poverty line. Look if you are a leftist and think the whole worlds problems are becuase of G. W. Bush, then you might of found your place in the world. Anyhow good luck with your choices, if you sign then you will owe them over 30k Euros of a F/O "type", or five years of hard time. And don't get me started on the ***** that came from TVS/ Fish.. as direct entry captians, that was THE single biggest **** up from CZALPA CSA, one is even a direct entry check airmen............... Keep your heads up LE, and Click, well go really king size when I come over this summer .

Ah, Bratko!

How was the tribunal in Den Haag? Looks like Ms. Del Ponte didn´t give you such a hard time, as you seem to be already back & posting. But your post is spot-on, and I couldn´t have said it better.

LE:)

AP, I got your PM - just gimme a few days and I will respond to it. Otherwise, click is the one who knows everything, and he is the one who really settled into this country.

AP, if you check out www.ppjn.com, you will see that CSA indeed is hiring DE CPTs, check out the minimums, they´re not too bad either.

LE :)

Thanks guys!
You were mentioning schedules back there, is it a fixed " X days ON, Y days off?
Just trying to get an idea of how they run rostering and whether theres alot of last minutes changes ect...in other words, is the sched system liveable IF you have (or plan to have) a significant other?
I work for a great company with a sweet schedule 703/704 scheme of things, but averaging only bout 35 hours a month for the last year.....About a grand short of those DE Capt requirements... Living in the boondocks....
Don't mind working my ass off for the next while. I guess after that first few thousand hours the idea is to work less...:E

Scheduling depends a lot on what fleet yar on. The 737 guys have got a very nice and liveable roster, with no crappy redeye flights, mostly four legs a day, sometimes a nightstop. Roughly 50-65 hrs a month block hours. The Airbus, being the better airplane, is a totally different game; I heard of guys having 4-8 no - sleep night flights, and the roster could show 95-105 hrs a month.

Overall if I were you I would not move to this country; your lifestyle will go down the drains, as the mentality of the locals is just different; you will have the perception of being in Russia.

LE:)

Yah, bite me:}. No choice pardner....just like when I was at a high school dance, no one wants me:E. I am showing 65 hours this month and Christmas off. Scheduling is a hit and miss affair but a lot better now then before...unless you fly the joystick.
Surely you mean Soviet Union, nay? Booming economy based on gazzillions from oil revenue and obscene wealth of the nouveau riche don't sound like Czecho to me. The everpresent "No money, No glove, No Love is more like it? Nay?"

You went to just one high school dance? Last time I have seen you, you looked like moving from one dance to another :E

The planek do prdele
 

I just got done with a very nice productive three day, and I had time to ponder. The deal is your schedule really impacts your quality of life, and even as a junior f/0 at about 65% at the companies most senior base, I spend more time at home with my loved ones then I did as the big relatively senior Kepten. on the 737. AP you really need to peruse the contract and the ops manual, ( don't read the horrible English versions they are not legally binding), there you will find that your schedule is based once again on the good principals of Marks, Engle, and Lenin., I.E. every one is equal and every one shall get the same "schedule" in a rolling 12 month time frame, +/- 5%. Take a deep breath and think about this one, as in theory it might even sound good if your junior, but you can be the 30 year numero uno in your seat , and some newbie gets the same deal. That to me is just plane garbage. You never "bid" on anything dealing with your schedule, you just GET something. On the 20th of the month you "get" you first ten days, then by midnight on the 28th you get the rest of your Planek. So much for planning life events. No remember that you get paid a substantial portion of your salary by hours flown, so guess what +/- 5% does to your bottom line... Remember the door that says in Czech "flight crew entry prohibited" , that is where the +/- 5% turns into +/wayyyy more. L.E is right in that the fleet as allot to do with your flying. Well A.P unless you own a JAA 737 type you can more or less forget about the 737, you'll be on the automatic tampon remover or the very fine A 320. I looked at my old planek and it kind of reflects the A 320 flying right now. Six days of turns, and on the 7th day an all nighter red eye ( with no IRO), make in essence an 8 day work block. Two days off and more of the same....11 days off with one block of four days off in a row. Let me tell you on those days off you are beat. I/m glad for my remaining brothers that this type of flying went to the gurus on the A-320. The other factor is this, everyone’s "line" is essentially a hybrid mix of line holder/reserve/ airport alert. If you look at someone’s Planek then you will notice the flying, then days with an X, those are immovable days off, then after a pairing you might see two days in a row that are blank, those are essential like reserve days, if your legal and they get you on the phone your assignable, and its non negotiable ( you could just turn off your fine company phone and not give them a land line), but every time you start a pairing and end one, it is at the red kiosk that electronically logs you in our out, and here comes the best part the two blank days before your immoveable day can get assigned as you log out, and now its on your line, so too bad if you had plans, and guess what not a red cent of premium pay, oh ya its non negotiable. So when some one over there tells you they have 20 days off on their planek, ask again when the month is done. Oh ya airport alert, thats a joke, and if you don't fly no money, great deal.... No concept of WOCL/biorhythms. And the fact that you do allot of turns sounds enticing, but since they have no duty/trip rig concept, you can have two AMS turns with sit time every where, be on duty for 12-14 ours and get paid for five hours. On the A320 fleet you will be commuting to and from work 15-19 times a month because of this, or many red eye turns ( on IRO) so the vast amounts of "free" time is a hoax, and the many red eyes in a row will take there toll my friend, but look at the good stuff, a "free" phone, pc, uniform, crew meals- with lots of pork, brand new A-320's. Beer in a two liter plasitc bottles, world famous Start smokes, and the world famous Karosa bus, and Tatra truck ,I'm getting teary eyed the dark forces are calling me back. If you go don't bitch, as unlike the "crew" you have been informed. Read the contract.
Frats Bratko

And please LE and click kiss and make up!!!!

The phone is a good one. I just got charged 23000 czechoslovak crowns, they just gave me the paycheck minus the phone usage. Without any explanation, and, because the company is being run very efficient, it took me one hour to locate a person (out of almost 6000) who is responsible for this mess. His explanation of why they charged me this was useless, as always.
OK fine, so I got ripped off here. Let´s see. Oh, parking fees. That is a great one. If you want parking, then they say that it is not guaranteed, but still charge you a monthly "pausalek", which is being deducted from your paycheck, regardless if there are any parking spaces or not, and one has to put the car on the curb at some really ridiculous place (and the police late arrives, as per request of our fine management, and starts to issue fines).

There are other things, like Bratko already mentioned, such as the fine Polyester suit, also called "Uniform". This fine piece of garment gives me shivers. Savile Row suits look like cheap in comparison what they gave us. It is, of course, manufactured in Czechoslovakia, made by a very "famous" company here. Mind you, the buttons come off the second day, and the "trousers" are sewed together in such an incredible way you wouldn´t believe it.

Bratko indicated it already - he might come back. Personally, I am right now thinking of calling this fine company where I passed the selection process and tell them to stick everything up their @rse, as I might be staying with "The world´s most communist airline".

Anyhow, AP, you have been warned. Further, I can´t understand, with you having an EU passport why you don´t apply to one of the other "few" airlines out here in Europe. Don´t think that the entry tests are easy here, or that you even might get a waiver for being a foreigner. There have been just a few guys who didn´t pass the exams and are not being taken on board the (sinking) ship.

But, even if you elect to "come and see", remember to read lots of Franz Kafka - and keep in mind that there is always waiting and seeing.

LE :)

Forgive my naivety,
I have only been back to the motherland twice, once 10 years ago for only three days (don't remember much besides the pubs) and just two months ago for two weeks....
The reason I am looking at CSA is:
I have my father and brother there, thus a place to crash and get set up from moving my life across the world.
Get my ass in a jet/ tampon-remover-with-the-ability-to-move-onto-jet without waiting another 4-5 years in my present situation.
Again said, not sure how the politics and regulations work IN PRACTICE (not theory) in Europe. I have only heard that it is rather difficult to get work for say a British airline with a Czech EU passport, and companies like Lufthansa and Swiss Air require excellent knowledge of their national language...
That being said, if you can point my ignorant butt in the right direction, I shall poke away.....I've only been on PPRUNE for two months now...:8
My basis for this (rash?) intent is:
I am now 30, and figure it will take me another 4 years before I am on anything aproaching an Airbus/737..... so 5 years "hard time" to be in much better position at age 35 would be worth it considering the choices available to me here in that period.
I have a pretty thick skin after working for some real ****shows... My current employer and the people I work with are great but only logging an average of 35 hours a month right now.... Will have about 430 hours for the year.... :sad:
Great, if I wanted to settle HERE.
Air Canada at 3500 hrs?= another 3.8 years from where I am at. Great pay (for commuter/air taxi) but absolute wasteland. Stick me in Litvinov anyday compared to the "community" I live in.....:yuk:
BTW, my old captain just got his "thanks, but please f#ck" off letter from Air Canada, and they only called him to interview after 3500+ hours and his Dash-8 upgrade.:ugh:

to check or not
 

Look AP don't get bent out of shape, if some of the things you have heard are not ear candy, we are trying to paint an Ex pat's picture of CSA, sure some comments we just some wise ass things that I or LE could not let slip by, but the others were based on FACTS, through EXPERIENCE. You can work in the U.K. on a Czecho passport, one of us has, you will need a type on that JAA cert though to make you attractive though. As for the other Euro network carriers, I would forget it as they all have a rough native language test, and its getting that way at CSA as well, so work on that Czech. As far as your comment about your captain and his time and AC, well buddy that’s pretty low time, I had double that TT and half of his time was PIC mainline jet when I got called in at my present job, so just have to keep paying your dues , it sucks but that the way its always been ( except for a chosen few), and that was never my case. In closing good luck, once you sign the dotted line your perception just might change. In retro had I stayed home when I could have at your level, I might have still thought that the Czech Republic was the best thing since sliced bread.
Two of us here have been or are on the interview board, don't take the process lightly if you want to have a fighting chance, just because your Czech is fluent, and you already know work as an airline pilot, there are MANY things that they do different, and I have seen more that a couple of guys just like you go home in shock disappointed ( one of those guys has a great gig in the UK). They will in a heart beat take a < 200 hour local versus you relatively high time, if he get one more "point" in the whole gay process. I would suggest you PM some people. Good luck bud!! P.S. if you denounce your "home" country and tell them how great the Czech Republic is you get lots of points, there are some "ex pats" like that over there.

No worries!
If that came off as ironic or jaded, its not the case. I am happy and feel very fortunate I am able to make a living as a pilot whether in the Caribbean or Antarctica.


I was trying to just lay it out there for you those that don't understand my rationale for taking a shot at Europe.


By no means do I think there is a job waiting for me, but I feel its worth the extra work to convert my ATPL to JAA so I have alot more oppurtunities to explore.


I guess the grass is always greener, though one of the reasons I became a pilot was to see the world (one redeye sector at a time :zzz:)
I should be squared away to begin my conversion studies in the next week or two, and would welcome any advice or expat perspective on on how they view or value things differently in the airline industry in Europe. I always tell the people I work and fly with to let me know if there is something I could/should be doing better or differently.... I don't take those things personally. I would rather know this than have bad CRM or not work up to my full potential.I think there's always something new you can learn, even stuff I may think I have a good handle on.


MERRY CHRISTMAS and all the best in the New Year , folks.:ok:


BTW, how are the new paintjobs?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...37320/Kiss.gif
Very goodly put Bratko and thanks for taking the time to write it up. I've got the pre-christmas heebe jeebies and couldn't have written it better. AP I'll be in touch. Merry Christmas y'all:)
click

Hope that's not the typical CSA flight attendant!:}