BA - Moving to the Right Seat
Hi,
I'm mid way through the BA DEP selection and, without wishing to count my chickens, am beginning to consider the reality of making the move. At the moment I am flying left seat jet for a leasing company. Nice lifestyle, moderate workload, but pay a little below the norm and long term prospects very uncertain. BA would be the sensible move, but I'm not sure about the long period (effectively life for me, as I am over 40) as FO. Can anyone shed light on the culture within the company. How steep is the cockpit gradient? And would I be going to go to work every day expecting to be treated like a cadet (no disrespect intended to cadets BTW!). Any personal experiences appreciated. KT |
i joined BA in the RHS at 21, and was expecting to be treated, as you say, like a cadet. I wasn't. 99% of the skippers have a perfect approach to command gradiant. great people to work with.
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Thanks Dozza, that's just what I wanted to hear :).
KT |
Ditto. Have been in 2.5 years. There is the odd 'charachter' as you get anywhere else but 95% of the time the flt deck atmosphere is much more relaxed than in my old charter mob.
Also there's nothing like going out for a beer with your colleague in Prague/Paris/Edinburgh on successive nights as you trapse around Europe - I can honestly say I have more of a rapport with some of the skips here after a 4 day tour than I did in a year of there-and-backs with the old lot. Don't believe all the scare stories you hear about Nigels! Like you, I was unsure but the vast majority turned out to be complete b*******s. |
I was in a similar situation to you a few years ago and was fortunate to be offered a job. However, reality gradually dawned that I would eventually get bored doing long haul with 10 years+ to a command that I already had in the short haul world.
It is without doubt a good company with plenty of aircraft types and opportunities but you will be in the bottom half of seniority lists for a large percentage of your time there. It is a tough choice but what finnally swung it for me was doing the pension sums using X years at BA as Fo/Capt and X years at my current job as a Capt. The figures will only ever be approximate but will help with your decision. |
Knee Trembler
I'm probably not the right person to be replying to your post - as I am a long time Capt with BA - and you would likely be better answered by a newish F/O - but, for what they are worth, here are my observations:
So, whilst I doubt you will experience any particular problems in moving to the RHS in BA - in fact I don't think this will be much of a problem for you at all - I would advise you to think very carefully about the overall package, and how other factors, mainly workload and lifestyle, will change with a move to BA. You will be working hard, and, to start with, at the bottom of the bidline, and only you can decide whether the improvement in long term job security and salary makes the move worthwhile. I hope the remainder of the selection goes well for you, and I look forward to flying with you. Best of Luck in whatever you decide. Regards Bellerophon |
Thanks to everyone for taking the trouble to reply :).
Now I just have to knuckle down and get through the sim! Best Wishes, KT |
I wouldnt bother with Ba.
It isnt the company it was compared to the 80s. Final salary pension has gone. Willie and his merry bunch of accountants are slowly Butchering it. GO EXPAT.:ok: |
It isnt the company it was compared to the 80s In comparison, failed companies are beyond butchery, don't have terribly attractive salary scales and the pension schemes are somewhat unappealing. |
Knee Trembler
Just to echo my colleague Bellerophon the culture in BA is that co-pilots are actually "Captains in waiting". That's why all P2s are type rated and checked to P1 standard and all flying is "leg for leg". The teamwork that this engenders is one of the big plus points for working for BA. Cockpit relations are generally relaxed and most :) Captains utilise the knowledge and skills that the co-pilots bring. I actually think longhaul P2s withy previous command experience are a godsend in multi crew (heavy) situations. You will fit in just fine.............. |
ETOPS, every airline in the UK works on the principle of "Captains in waiting" so BA is not unique in that aspect.
Knee Tremblers problem I suspect will hinge around life style issues and of course cash in the bank each month and pension values. Job satisfaction would be better in the LHS but this is not really about which side of the aircraft you sit on, more the whole package on offer up to retirement compared to staying put or comparing other companies. As I mentioned earlier the loss of the final salary pension was the deal breaker for me, and I think many others in similar circumstances. |
Could somebody please be kind enough to give a typical roster for a brand new FO (SSP) for the Airbus?
Literally just got the phone call! :) |
Acbus,
Yes,it still remains thanks to 150 million from Maggie Thatcher. The rest remains.:ok: |
There are still airlines in the UK where the FO is not permitted to taxy the aircraft, start the engines or fly non-precision approaches. Not exactly what I'd call a "captain in waiting" role.
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....and an awful lot where the F/O cant call stop on take off to name another. or carry out the stop for that matter.
and as for example of an airbus roster, being junior you can expect to be on a blind line, this is when the company will construct your roster with work that no one else has bid for, this isnt always undesirable work. It will probably mean working every weekend, and will be a mix of the same sort of work that any one else will get, you just won't be able to choose what it is and when you do it. I imagine you will fly around 80hrs a month and will consist of early/late 2, 3, 4 day multi sector trips all over europe in some great cities and the odd longer dsy trip. Sorry thats all a bit vague, sure a current airbus driver will help you a bit more. |
Many thanks spoilers yellow. Any more information greatly appreciated.
Cheers |
Hand Solo and Spoilers, every company has different SOPS regarding what an FO can and cannot do. I personally think a certain experience level works well. Below it you have some restrictions above it you don't. I am sure we could also have a healthy debate concerning monitored approaches.
There is more than one way to operate an aircraft and BA do not have a monopoly on good ideas and practices! |
Had to laugh at mjenkinsblackdog1, saying BA "isn't the company it was in the 80s"!
And then saying "GO EXPAT"! :} :} :} |
Tandem,
Glad you found it so funny. DIPSTICK:ok: |
mjenkinsblackdog1
If you 'don't earn anywhere near £100k' And you think: The only way to beat the system is to go either expat or get a VVIP job. There are pilots in BA earning £200k! Not many admittedly, but comfortably exceeding £100k is not unusual. How were those T&Cs with, "Jade Cargo". :E GO EXPAT? Now who's the DIPSTICK?:ok: |
Look you MORON,
We are dealing with young laddies just moving to the righthand seat. Not Old Nigels who joined in the 80s. Christ you really are F*****g DENSE.:ok: |
Mental note to self: don't go expat!!
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Go Expat? Been there, done it. Glad I'm back. Mental note to self, don't do it again.
Good luck with whatever decsion you make Knee Trembler, I just hope that characters such as mjenkinsblackdog1 do not ruin your day in the flight deck. (Ex) Ex Pilot |
I'd second that! Ignore jenkinsblackdog, there are miserable grumblers in every airline who'll always find something to complain about. Personally I've looked at the numbers going expat and it didn't add up for me after I'd done about 5 years in BA, the gross (tax-free) salary at EK was less than I was earning net in the UK!
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mjenkinsblackdog1
The perfect example of why you have had to flee abroad to ply your trade! No wonder you can't find anyone at home to employ you! Shame. You might earn more here! :}:}:} |
Tandemrotor
Just wondering what position you would have to be in to be a pilot and earn 200K with BA? Just curious thats all :ok:
Cheers dlav |
Senior training captain and overtime wh0re.
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And probably on wife no.3 to support.
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I'll be doing well to even find wife no.1! :}
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Actually, in at least one case, it is still wifey numero uno. :D
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mjenkinsblackdog1:
My wife has just been on e-bay (again) and has found a pristine set of Tandemrotor/Hand Solo bookends on offer. They come with a completely genuine pink spectacles overview of the future of UK aviation and I don't think you can afford to be without one of these desirable items. The highest bid so far is €13.97 so perhaps you could surprise your wife with this exclusive gift? |
Of course the future is so much rosier in the middle or far east with there complete absence of employment protection laws. After all you never see anyone on Pprune complaining about being stiffed by Emirates or Etihad, or griping about how bad things have become at Cathay. Singapore or Korean? Models of expatriate happiness! Perhaps the rose tint you are seeing is through your glasses? Must make your doomsday prophecies much easier to write.
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My other half is a senior 744 skipper, and earns nowhere near 200k! And as for overtime, he works so hard already he has no time spare to do extra work !!!
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Then perhaps you should introduce yourself to the individual Hand Solo mentioned.
I feel sure your "other half" will know who is being spoken of! Are you saying your "other half" isn't comfortably exceeding £100k? JW411, since you clearly know nothing of BA, perhaps you should defer?? Have either of us said anything that you know to be incorrect? Didn't think so! :E Keep those jamjars on my friend. Must help your illusion of superiority. |
Wow
There are pilots in BA earning £200k! Not many admittedly, but comfortably exceeding £100k is not unusual. Knee Trembler If you decide to chose BA there will be certain benifits, but if pay is a big issue then there are better opportunities out there. What you will get is a nice flight deck environment, a stable roster and good benifits. Time to command could be between 8-15 years depending upon various scenarios such as expansion and part-time opportunities. The pension is not great, but at least you know that when you join. Chatting to an interviewer the other day; his opinion is that most people chose BA or Virgin, a few Easy. Best of luck |
Nice one Angry.:D
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For those people thinking of BA, I would suggest joining BALPA and having a look at the comparative payscales on the website. It lists all of the paypoints. I would have to agree with previous posters in that any Long Haul Captain in BA is on well over 100K, and I would venture to guess over 125K, even without overtime. Many of the crew live abroad with all of the "benefits" that entails. The nice thing is that there are always opportunities for overtime if that is what floats your boat. However, most of us are trying to do the minimum and try and get the work/life balance right.
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Try the T and G.
Balpa arent worth it.:ok: |
Knee T,
I joined BA as a long-haul DEP in my 40s, a couple of years ago, having finished my mil career as a 4-jet captain. No big deal at all. The technology leap was a big one but I am happy with my lot as an FO. Dip your toes in the water. BA is still the only outfit here with no bond! You have nothing to lose! |
Hi,
I would have to second the general sentiment here about life in the RHS in BA. Generally a great bunch of people and very relaxed, but professional. I'm more than happy :) With regards to remuneration, I would say 75%+ of full time BA skippers would be earning more than £100k. Pay point 24 longhaul basic is now something like £140k. Add a 22.5% top up for trainers, then add allowances. So a pay point 24 longhaul training Capt, without overtime, would be grossing around £180k......... Can't imagine that there are too many airlines in the world paying more?! Regards, Cuban_8 |
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