XL Airways
 

Does anyone have any information regarding the current situation in XL Airways regarding the usual T's and C's, morale, rostering etc. on the 73 fleet?:O

Feel free to PM me.:ok:

I have the same question but onto their 767 fleet.

Many thanks

Londonmet,
The 757/767 fleet is rapidly going down the pan and crew morale with it. There are two airlines within XL. The original good ol' boys from Sabre(genuflect genuflect)and the cowboy lowlife from Air Atlanta Icelandic and Europe(ie the 757,767 and 747 fleets). There has been little attempt at integration since the two were merged. XL management are a cadre of Sabre/Excel Originals. As far as they are concerned they are the truth and the light and all others are worthless. The 757s and 767s are believed to be going within the next year to 18 months, I say 'believed' because the whole place is run on rumour as the management don't believe in communication and the little that does escape from the CEO's pen seems to emanate from one who is almost childishly illiterate.) Most 757 767 crew members wouldn't know who their bosses were or what they looked like. The future is so stark, most people are in the process of Zooming off. The whole tone of the place is encapsulated by the CEO's request at last year's End of Season Party in a Crawley club. Having failed to gain the attention of all present,he yelled 'Shut the F**k up'. One to avoid.

Londomet,
Sorry, please disregard all I said previously.I have obviously been deluded.XL is indeed a well led,integrated friendly bunch and crew morale on the 747,757,767 fleets couldn't be higher.I was obviously confused by forgetting that trainers are managers.I'd recommend you apply for the 757/767 fleet.If successful,you will be asked immediately to choose between the 737(probably part time to begin with),A320s (based somewhere in Europe for a year) or redundancy!
Enjoy!

Stool-waters

Sounds like you "doth protest to much!" Where there is smoke theres' fire. Most of the Guys I have spoken to have no illusion that it is not a career airline.

I am amazed that the shower is still in business.

This is nothing...wait until the 330 is crewed, then you will see some bitching!

dogma,
Just presenting another perception. AAE wasnt a career airline either but that doesnt stop people constantly making out they were.As for being in business..well they are so whos right the bitchers or the non bitchers

Ski,

exactly just bitching. Same sh1t everywhere.

Abra you could always take the well trodden path from XL to Zoom / Flyglobespan and then there you will discover the other little known path that leads right back.......

May the farce be with you

Daft Wader

:ok:

Lou Stoolwater, Daft Won*ker its pretty clear you guys are either management, or management stoolies:} either way, you clearly don't wish to open your eyes to the current perception from your crop of 75/76 crews.
Goodluck living in fairyland:ok:
Londonmet, I would avoid X'hell if I was you.

Just because a gentleman is light on his loafers doesnt make him a stoolie...:suspect:

Abra , 757man - ipulator take a chill pill.

If times are changing it doesnt necessarily mean bad news,I hope there are plans to keep everyone in the picture with future developments.

Daft Wader
:ok:

I would suggest you are missing the point:hmm:, but then, I suppose that was your point:8

Stoolwater, I love going to work, I get well paid (most likely better than you:ok:) and I don't have to head off to Brize or Basra or etc etc...
I also have a healthy skepticism when it comes to gentlemen such as yourself who appear (outwardly) to follow so closely behind certain management types that you would require surgical removal should the aforementioned management type suddenly come to a halt.

So guys, my chill pill is certainly not required, and my views are manifestly accurate.

Enjoy fairyland

757 Manipulator
 

Each of the airlines that I have worked for has someone like you who is never happy and just can't wait to rubbish the whole program, the truth is that XL is far from perfect but I have worked for far worse so as "Old Bill" would say "if you knows of a better shell hole then go and hide in it!"

Inccidently in the last company the guy who was always unhappy and could not wait to tell you how bad the company was went by the name of Jolly !

Very very sage advice.

How are the company going to decide who crews the 330?
Who will stay, who will go?
Why state there will be no redundancies, when this was an option offered?
Why state that the company policy is to promote from within, then employ non-rated DEC's?
What about the cadets who were promised so much, and are about to be binned?

Answers to these and other questions on the back of your fairy-cakes boys:ok:

So what's the deal with the cadets being binned?

I have been reading this thread with interest as I was a contractor on the 737 for a year and had a reasonably good time. Having worked for big and small airlines I can say there are a lot worse places to be (although equally there are some better!).

In the end though, I left because of the attitude of management to promotion and the FOs in general. Quite why certain people feel the need to hire unrated DECs when there are more than a few qualified FOs around still puzzles me. At my last OPC I was graded "Suitable for Command" and then told in the same breath that this didn't mean I was going to be a captain!

So I left (and became a captain elsewhere), but found it a shame as I thought XL was basically an OK airline.

Would love to hear the truth from someone with less extreme views than some of the contributors.

KT

How are the company going to decide who crews the 330?


The answer will be.......... whoever it decides, your new chief pilot will sort it out, I believe he is Airbus rated, I expect he will be top of the list, he usually makes sure he is first in line for everything.............looks after No. 1 very well:ok:

757 manipulator
 

From my seat at the front of the 738 I see a lot of FO's and not all are suitable for command this may be because of lack of hours or other reasons, I also see a number of FO's who when they get the hours will make captain.

It is the ones who are always telling you that they should be a captain that are the ones who are the I doubt are suitable!

So if the company is short of suitable the only option is DEC's.

I would guess that you have not talked face to face with the pilot managenent, you will find them a lot more approachable than you seem to think, insted I think that you are listening to a few of the wise guys who can see a good practical joke at your expence.

I think a lot of the problems within 'modern' companies (i.e. new startups) is that the trend seems to be away from seniority lists.

I started out life with a traditional operator (Air Uk) and there you worked your way up to the required experience (in those days 4000hrs) and waited for a command assessment. The system was transparent and and fair and everyone knew where they stood.

Although I have benefited from the meritocracy at my present employer, I do feel sympathy for those who have not and yet appear to be perfectly capable of doing the job. Often they are just too quiet, based away from management or, sadly, sometimes just female.

KT

Well I suggest you listen to a bit of A and C's advice...
then post the answer in here, and prove my point:ok:
Or option 3 which you haven't considered, in which case I will let you make your own assumptions.

You then say..which proves nothing, perhaps ask a second question of the approachable management.
Finally I will happily admit to playing the devils advocate, but I don't see a conspiracy, merely a false and misleading picture painted by yourself Mr Stoolwater...
As I said, ask the questions

Aren't they some Frenchies qualified and flying on the 330's XL France yet?:confused:

Londonmet.
I still stand by my original answer to your question. If I seem to moan it’s because XL could be a truly excellent airline to work for, but for the moment at least, it is not.
You ask what morale is like. On the 757,767 and no doubt the 747,it is very low. The airline is going through a period of fleet change and people are concerned about their futures. With sound good management, and by management I do not include trainers or even fleet managers, as they have little to say in steering company policy, this should be a time of open discussion of what might be. It should include regular senior management communications laying down ideas of how things might proceed. XL do not conduct business like this. They prefer to keep their plans close to their chests. They are happy to allow rumours to fly, making their crews even more uncertain and unhappy. As I said before, with the CEO we have at the moment, I’m not sure he could express himself well enough to get the message across anyway!
Our situation has not been helped by the AAE/XL merger. Not one manager from AAE was retained and apart from a new CP from outside the company, the majority of senior Flt Ops and department managers are Sabre/Excel. The fleets never really integrated. I had no great love of AAE, it was a necessary stop gap to break away from AAI. I am told it was also a great improvement on that company. Joining Excel/XL should have been a greater improvement still. But it wasn’t. Even the Head of Training, who is now on the 757/767 fleet has remarked at how distant he feels from XL now he is on his new fleet! All this leaves most of the 757/767 and 747 fleet feeling very exposed. Many are leaving. I can think of 18 who are about to hand in their resignations or are in the process of resigning from the 757/767s. Another 4 are rumoured to be going. Two are Training captains. They have not been moaning minnies, just people who see the writing on the wall. The TCX/MYT redundancies might be XL’s saviour, particularly if some of those applicants are experienced A330 crew.
In the vacuum of no or incoherent management communications, rumours abound. Recent examples include the cancellation of the cadet programme, taking on three DECs two of which are not rated, no internal command upgrades for the next 4 years and so on. Management’s silence in the face of these rumours almost makes you feel they are happy for them to exist. Perhaps the mathematics of resignation are more advantageous to those of redundancy.
The one thing that makes me hang on is the people I work with, as opposed to those I work for! And who knows, the last rat to leave becomes the Captain doesn’t he?
Reading the ramblings of Lou Stulewater rather reminded me of the latest company report by our CEO..could they possibly be the same person I wonder or did they just go to the same school??

Nah..after reading that, Lou.....school...?I don't think so!

Just picked up on this thread.

I can see the basis of all the points made by both abra and Lou Stulewater, I just hope they don't end up with married rosters any time soon.:hmm:

IMHO: The Company is obviously in a state of serious flux. Just one quick look around home base will show you that it's by no means the worst case in the Industry, past or present.

With regard to the earlier discussion of Command prospects: I can only guess at the posters' current Ranks, but I would personally rather fly with guys and girls who offer constructive critiscism when neccessary but see the overall gameplan. This gameplan is clearest to me when I look at the name listed next to my Bank Balance's biggest monthly Credit.

I have a great deal of professional respect for many of the leavers and can understand their motivation to depart.

What does bother me, as previously stated by others, is the fact that the gameplan in terms of fleets, commands etc appears to be anything but transparent. I appreciate that it may be as it is due to a number of semi-controllable external factors.

However, to quote an unknown Sergeant as his shellshocked Officer marched his Parade towards a sheer cliff:

"Please say something, Sir, even if it's only 'Goodbye' ".:\

313 (aka 250)

to quote Abra " Not one manager from AAE was retained "

Surely both the B767/757 Fleet Manager and his deputy were ex AAE ?

Daft Wader

What sort of spurs can we expect to get with the new uniform, if we survive that long? ones with wings on like greek gods! you need them for a 330 you know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Contract
 

Hi there, just about to join your co. thru Storm but contract is not what was given to me in interview. Suggestions?

Been there, done that. Walked away.....

Bet you the response when you asked the company was 'but you'll be taking home more this way compared to being employed'.

Just don't forget to pay tax when you are employed through the Isle of Man or wherever. One day the tax man will find out and you'll pay double.

I say you chaps, all this banter about the people running the airline not talking to the pilots, not asking their opinions, and treating them like chaps who were hired just to fly aircraft backwards and forwards... oh hang on - you were hired to fly the aircraft backwards and forwards. And jolly well you do it too, one of the most efficient flying bus driver fleets in Europe. You can all be jolly proud of that. But as for running the company - well now that is the job of bean counters, desk jockeys, numpties and crewing assistants. And with the new broom sweeping through on the top floor the future looks like somewhere that may end up being just a tad more successful.
So what say we bury our gripes, work a little bit harder (and lets be honest - most of us could), link arms and sing the company song...
Cue trumpets...
:eek:

Sadly I'm of the humble opinion that XL is ultimately doomed. While part of the Avion Group they never made money, the costs of the ACMI arrangement meant that they involved themselves in a debt for equity swap to pay AAI'S bill 40 % first year then 40% next The Avion Group then sold back to XL in a management buy out a dead duck that is a long wayfrom making a profit. The writing is on the wall guys. XL have had a torrid year to date with horrendously unreliable 75 and 76's probably caused by inadequate maintenance in put. This obviously cannot go on. Next Feb the company might not even exist. The stats do not point in a particularly favourable direction.:sad:

A very negative post above!

All I see is full aircraft running with delays normaly the result of external factors. With the apauling summer that the UK has been having filling aircraft is not a problem so we just have to trust the sales people have got the price right.

Despite the profits of doom I expect to see XL around for a good few years yet because I am assured that I am near the top of the Airbus list! ( off to Toulouse tomorrow to check the place out )

Hey that sounds like fun....I wonder if Vueling will make you speak spanish?
If not, mayby your polish is up to standard? :}

The whole of Europe speaks MTV english ;)

So the 'Bus courses have already been allocated? Is there something we should have been told i ask myself?

313
aka Mushroom:suspect:

How many busses are XL planning to operate? And which types, and when?

"If not, mayby your polish is up to standard? "

Maybe the Berlitz guide you might need is Hungary.....

you had better Wizz off down the road and get one.

Daft Wader
:D

Firstly, I have to admit that i'm not a pilot, but I do work for XL. So, I can't comment on the various posts regarding promotions to L/H seat/A330 fleet and the fairness of it (or not).
However, I can comment with a substantial degree of accuracy on the plans of the company and their rationale behind them.
As a company, we have to review our operation and ensure that resources we have are the correct ones to enable the company to move forward profitably, so ensuring all our livelyhoods.
As we all know the B757/767 fleet has had more than it's fair share of problems. These aircraft are all over 20 years old now, and the time is coming for them to be moved to new pastures.
The reason that nothing has yet been said with regard to the future of the
B757/767 fleets is that at the moment, nothing is set in stone. These discussions are very complex and take a long time, but, take it from me, some of them would involve wet leases to some fairly exotic locations.
Also bear in mind, that by this time next year we will have taken delivery of brand new 2x B737-900's with 4x A330-200's following by spring 2009.
As far a business goes, we simply have to become a more efficient company. Third party tour operators who can commit to supporting us are dwindling in number. Five years ago, there were around 200 who could commit to allocated seat blocks, now there are probably only 50.
In addition, the publics perception that, dynamic packaging gets them a better deal (not necessarily true) means that more and more book on t'internet and we therefore have to change as the market changes.
Nobody likes uncertainty when it comes to jobs/wages etc, but things are not as bad as some on this thread seem to believe.
cheers

What letters? and what fleet?:eek:

Lets just say XL will not be hiring anybody soon!

The letter.
 

40 perm cabin crew being laid off, dont know about flight deck but imagine there will be cutbacks everywhere. Have they even got any routes for the new bus' fleet?

Where are the 330's coming from??

Being crewed by the French, If they are part of the same group then