How many Bacon pilots have actually left?
 

There has been a lot of talk from the ex-Bacon guys about leaving but how many of you have actually resigned?
I'm just curious about how many extra pilots we will be getting. I suspect not that many with the desperation recruitment currently going on at Flybe. To those that move on best of luck and to those that join us best of luck!!!

Well I have gone up just over 100 places on the seniority list since the Dec bid, and I know of several who have left or working notice since the list was issued! And after closing BRS on day two even those who were optimistic are now getting nervous for the future!

The total figure of left and working notice stands at over 100.
Personally I know of others who are still cv ing and interviewing.
I know of only a few who actually wish to work for flybe and some who may have no choice.
I expect there will be more bailing out after the BRS debacle.
Clever way of increasing your crew numbers flybe.

I too have gone up 115 places since the last seniority list was published. There are now 321 pilots on the list compared to 451 on the last list. People are leaving all the time though. I have a job starting in August. Haven't resigned yet but may do soon and take the summer off.

Rumour control has it that there will be no 146 flying from MAN after the end of this month, just touring from other bases. This doesn't particularly appeal to me, so I might as well go ASAP.

There is only 1 MAN 146 F/O left who doesn't have a job to go to, and no more than a handful of captains.

170 pilots have gone/are going is what i have heard from a good source.

I too have moved up about 100 places on the seniority list!
I must be one of the few who has had second thoughts about leaving!
I had the offer of F/O position on a 737 with another well known carrier (type rating to be paid for by them with a 3 year bond), but decided to stay with Bacon/Flybe after being offered a command on the Emb 145.
What swung it for me is that your pay is "red ringed" when the time comes to be transfered to a turboprop.:)

Regarding the movement up the seniority list.

Is this additional to the splitting of the company in two. In other words, are the new BACF pilots included, or now excluded from that list?

It would make a very big difference to the significance of those numbers!

There is a meeting on the 13th to discuss the combined seniority list. I suspect regardless of the outcome we are going to see more resignations then.:sad:

too right sunshine

Tandem - you are correct. The BACF guys are included. The answer is 70 from the 3rd November. Therefore those that have resigned from that date include those that were in the process before the announcement was made. There are more to come however........

"red ringed" - OUCH !!

Heard from a mate at Ezy that 95 Bacon guys have either started or will start with Easy ! This merger aint half helped easy's recruitment needs !!

The seniority list has only 321 pilots on it because the 100ish citiflyer pilots have been taken out.Although there are a significant number of new guys being added to the bottom.

The word from crewing/ops - they have over 120 people working notice, not to mention all those with start dates with easy in August who are sitting on their notice.........

Hi Guys & Girls

Any of you starting with Easy on the 13th August .
Reply to my pm;)

Having taken a look at Flybe's nice new PCs sitting in our crewroom, from what I can see of their SOPs, I might be joining the exodus very soon as well. Man and Boy, lovely. I thought I didn't like the BA stuff, but perhaps it wasn't so bad after all.....

No talking to ground crews, no this no that, setups still there, Captain gets the thrust levers on take-off, can't figure out why they'll bother letting me start the engines, may as well hand that back too and just fill out paperwork. After all, the Journey log's back and the airplan layout has twice as many boxes to fill in too. Progrerssive it is not and this winter I have the wonderful priviledge of losing my jet seat and moving to the RHS of a Q400 to put the ice on the cake.

Even Ryanair sounds appealing right now. I got to see FlyBE's seniority list too, and there's a lot of green lines throughout the list- folk working notice. I'm not actually sure who has the higher percentage of leavers, us or FlyBE?

Depressing stuff. Then again, I still count myself lucky I'm not BRS based. Last time I took a drive about, I wondered that I might like to be based there as the area looked very nice. Best of luck to all you folks down Bristol way getting jobs with the big Orange or whoever.

Now flaps - just hold on a minute. The sop's are just a bit different - you will get used to them - you know people don't like change. Thank god the journey log is back - we will be able to write down what has gone wrong and then see it get fixed, rather than collect info for a statistic.

You don't have to give up your seat on the plastic pig for the rhs of a superdash - just take a command in Man and move off the island - your choice mate! Ice on cake is nice to take!!

I reckon you should try FR and see how you get on ha ha

Depressing stuff? b@llocks! Great to get back to the way it was

onwards and upwards :D

Sorry folks, just having a grumpy old man moment...my bike had a flat battery and bump starting it always pisses me off....how I love earlies.

The SOP changes for the 146 appear to be that the captain does all the ground coms, the PF starts, we do setups like now and on take off the captain does the reject. It's a bit like our old Manx/BRAL SOP except the setup and they let you start the engines, without all the rest of it. Not too bad really. We'll get used to it in no time at all. I suspect we will have no time at all either, because we'll be moved onto these SOPs very quickly indeed. Interesting use, or lack of it, for the APU. I do reckon that's not such a bad idea really. If you don't need it, don't use it. Quite logical.

If I'd wanted to move to Manchester I'd have done it years ago, Q300 command three years ago if I'd wanted it. Huge pay cut forced my hand really.

Wifey's about to drop another soon, so I'm stuck here for a while yet.

Ah Flaps

"Man and Boy"?

But don't forget you won't have to wear a hat, and no uniform in the sim!

Sweet!

Flap Operator....
 

Hey Flappy, I've never heard YOU that down before - don't sweat it! You made your choice for the IOM and all those advantages haven't gone away. The turmoil of the changes will be short and sour, and then all will become as it was; in fact given the supposed exodus, you'll probably end up with a command ON the IOM, there must be a lot of wrinklies about to retire! Give my best to Phil!
Oh, and congrats on the latest - you must have nearly a full crew by now, are family allowances better on the rock as well?;)

Q400 fleet
 

AnotherFlapOperator: Depending on your hours, you might very well find yourself in the LHS of the Q400 not the RHS.

As for SOPs:

Captain talks to ground crew.

PF starts engines.

Captain taxis out and lines up.

PF has control once cleared t-o.

PF will carry out any rejected t-o.

PF has control entire flight.

PF carries out landing.

Captain takes control at 60knots on landing and vacates runway and taxis in.

As for the journey log and areas to be filled in on the flight plans - yes they are a bit tedious but generally the info is off blocks time, t-o time, ramp fuel, fuel burnt, fuel remaining, on blocks time, landing time, did you tank fuel?, did you use a gpu?, did any crew member have a taxi before or after their duty?, did you de-ice and how much fluid did you use if so?, who was PF for the sector?, did you have a push back?, did you carry out a practise or actual low vis app?, how many paxs, infs, cargo?

As I said it can be tedious but more often than not its no to most of that lots on the journey log so its all quite straight forward.

Minor correction to the above if I may AlphaCharlie:

The SOPs you list are true for the Dash there are a few changes for the 146 and I have no idea about the SOPs on the wonderjet.

On the 146:

Captain talks to ground crew.

PF starts engines.

PF taxis out and lines up.

After the takeoff power is set the Captain covers the thrust levers and will carry out any rejected t-o.

PF has control entire flight.

PF carries out landing.

PF vacates runway and taxis in.

Minor addition to SOP for nthe Dash, but I have found most captains encourage me to speak to pax and groundcrew for start and initial hello to encourage Captaincy skills I would imagine.....lots of great hands on flying in my first 6 months!

Surely that is encouraging the blatant disregard of SOPs? :hmm:

Oh, dear, I hope my initial post hasn't stirred up a hornet's next regarding SOPs. I apologise if it has, and if it hyjacks the thread a bit as well. Sorry.

LHS? Doubt it. :( With the current plan, we have enough Manxies for three aircraft in the LHS, but I'm STILL one from last on the list, that's the way it's always been on the rock. When I joined it was four aircraft and reasonable career prospects if you chose to stay, but BA put paid to that. In reality, the Island is basically a place where you end up suspended in time, dead man's shoes and all that. If you have dreams of large aircraft and going places, avoid it like the plague! Grump over.:{

PDG of the Antarctic has thrown the towel in, so will be offski in a couple of months. Timed to perfection, bless. We'll miss the old lump like the others who've pulled the pin and settled for a happy retirement. Big old pussycat, but he'd kill me for saying it, if he ever found out how to use a PC and come on here!

The reject bit I can handle easily but I do think the F/O reject was a good idea, it saved time. Different train set, that's all!

The IOM ground crews are delighted they won't have to listen to me though, so at least someone will be better off! - Allways a bright side if you look hard enough!

Scratch that, instead of most I should have written 'some', as to disregarding SOP's, mmmm we are really going to fall out the sky if the FO speaks to the punters rather than the Capt! :ugh: do get a life!

Perhaps someone should set up a poll to find out how many have left or are working their notice if everyone really wants to know

MVE ... No you won't fall out of the sky. But if you disregard the simplest SOPs, how on earth are you going to follow the more complex ones? And who are you to pick and choose from the rules laid down by your employer? Get a (professional) life!

Flyboy, it was more a question of getting a feel for whether the rumours are true that we are not going to get as many pilots as first thought. A poll on here would have little real value and my original question has been answered or at least as well as it could on an annonymous forum anyway, regards.....

145 SOPs
 

It seems we are to continue with monitored approaches. Why? Fair enough if you`re flying to LAX with 3 days on the beach and a single sector home again - but us? We fly multi -sector shifts of very short duration, taking turn about, on consecutive days, with cross monitoring and SOPs coming out our ears (hardly time to scratch your arse) - what`s the point? It comes out worst in the SIM - half the time nobody`s sure who`s flying the plane. The SIM instructors agree. I started with an open mind but I now conclude (with experience) its all bollocks. I hope Flybe agree and tell 145 management to bin it immediately.

Sounds very similar to BA mailine sop's?

As pointed out afterwards, you disregard even the most basic of SOPs, and where do you stop? How do you decide which SOPs are worth adhering to and which ones can be ignored?

And now be TOTALLY honest with the answer to my next question...
...when you go for an interview for that next job and the inevitable question comes up "Have you ever ignored or disregarded an SOP?" what will you honestly say?

Even if you decide not to move on, when you are next having a line check will you willingly start doing 'welcome aboard PAs' or talking with ground crews... or if your Captain is on a linecheck, do you think he will let you do the same?!!!

Pray do come back and keep us all informed of the outcome! :E

Ooops - posted this earlier on wrong thread.

flaps - regarding the power levers, our SOPs have had several different slants and techniques applied to them over the years on the different DHC8 types, but generally it has always been that PF advanced the levers on the roll until the autofeather arms, at which point he calls "Set Power" and PNF advances the levers to the rating detent, with both pilots covering the levers. We did vary things slightly with the 200/300 due to trust issues with the arming of the autofeather system, having to hold it on the brakes until the system armed.

With regard to other aspects of the SOPs, it was a blessing when TC departed because he came from BA and brought Monitored Approaches with him, mandatory on all sectors. It was certainly a useful tool in some weathers, but on all sectors it was crazy, and on some of our shorter sectors, GLA-BHD, BHD-IOM, JER-GCI, it was just downright messy, and switching control from one pilot to the other on the AP/FD panel was a bit confusing for some. On the day he left we reverted to sensible ops.

remoak - unfortunately our department heads didn't have the balls to say no, and you're right - a complete.....!

spaceman - don't get too excited about the Journey Log, it did used to be a very useful feedback tool, but nowadays when you get back to the crewroom it's all transferred to AIMS and is more or less a tool for gathering statistics as you mention. You can add notes in a separate section, but you'll never get any sort of response or acknowledgement. Oh, and here's another thing, you'll often feel like banging your head against a wall when you compare the handlers' submitted delay code to reality! A delay due to late boarding of the pax or any other handling delay is nearly always attributed to the crew - eating meals, late arrival at aircraft etc, and there's no point in changing it on AIMS because Flybe Ops will have already logged the handlers' delay code which is submitted before you even get airborne.

Have fun with that! :ugh:

Oh, how we laughed when he tried to bring that to the 146 fleet. I seem to recall the answer was something like "errrr..... no", followed by much muffled laughter from the 146 head bods.

We always felt really sorry for the dash crews, having to put up with that nonsense.

The chap was indeed a complete (insert derogatory term of your choice here).

Yes, well we have it on the Barbie and it stinks!

as cabin crew,we never know who to blame for a crappy landing now because we dont know who is actually flying!!!this monitored approach thing is barmy!

69

You never get a crappy landing do you! Well I suppose it depends whether you are on the to..........

RJ no, Barbie YES!!!!

69

If its a crappy landing it is prob because we cant make up our minds who is supposed to be doing the landing, and Barbie does it herself!:}

Tigger

As a general rule you can blame it on the one that did the en-route PA.

If you come to the dash, welcome to the world of random landings! Wet runway dry runway, crosswind/no crosswind, small flare, long flare, it's in the lap of the gods whether you get a smooth landing or not!!!:ok: